rudemedic Posted April 30, 2010 Share Posted April 30, 2010 I didn't have the vote... I was only 17 Tony Blair was from a middle class background... and I have a lot of respect for John Major really... but no I would of defo backed Blair... Would I back a cabinet full of people with millionaire daddies who sent them all to eton and have massive trust funds... Well event he thickest amongst can see the difference between them and the Labour / Lib lot I would hope... OK lets try this one, did you vote for Tony over William Hague- who went to a comp? (and incidentally will probably be Deputy Prime Minister if Dave wins). Or even Michael Howard who passed his 11+ and went to the local grammar school (but is descended from a jewish shop keeper who fled the Nazis). Yes there are some posh people in Cameron's shadow cabinet, but how many working class people are in Gordon's cabinet? Patricia Hewitt's dad was an Austrailian civil servant (in their PM's office) and then chairman of QANTAS, Ed Balls went to a private school in Nottingham (despite being from norfolk), plus the other ones I've already covered. I would say the majority of the cabinents on both sides have middle class backgrounds (to be expected since they are after all politicans)- the Tories are on the whole posher (which is to be expected since Labour is the party of unionists). A cabinet full of people who went to Eton, well OK if 3 makes a cabinet, Cameron, Osbourne (who is posh) and Letwin (son of a univeristy lecturer- like Tony Blair). Class of the people involved is being made an issue because Gordon (and the sympathetic media) wants to ram Cameron's posh upbringing down our throats, (and now he is involved Clegg's too) I didn't see Tony Blair do this (probably because he was posher than the people leading the Tories). Gordon Brown is middle class and is not towards the working class end of that spectrum. If i was so inclined I could attack Gordon Brown for being a Scottish MP and voting/arguing for matters in Westminster which are decided in Scotland by the Scottish parliament (something which could prove very controversial in a hung parliament). Do English people get a say as to how Scotland spends its money on issues solely for Scotland (obviously the same could be said of Wales and NI), no. So why should Scottish people get a say as to how money is spent in England. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudemedic Posted April 30, 2010 Share Posted April 30, 2010 What I mean is that after 13 years of labour, it is more difficult for young people from the poorest backgrounds to break into the professions such as medicine, law and accountancy. For medicine I don't think that is true. One of my friends at uni was from South bank, Middlesbrough (think Moss Side- and often features in the worst list of places to live and I think has the lowest average house price of anywhere in the country). This is a fairly common policy for unis and if you are a local, and come from a disadvantaged background you can often get in to study medicine with much lower A-Levels than everyone else (you still have to pass the exams though and my mate failed at the first hurdle). I think that is in some part down to Labour. Not wholly since it was an NHS review thing lead by the person who was also Chief Medical Officer under the Tories. Law is something you can do without a Law degree (you do a degree and then study Law postgraduately), but since Law is a varied field this has been around for ages (well before new Labour) but Labour has made it so more people get degrees so more people have the opportunity (especially if they aren't from the traditional professional background). I think the same might apply for accountancy but you'd have to ask an accountant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted April 30, 2010 Share Posted April 30, 2010 (edited) OK lets try this one, did you vote for Tony over William Hague- who went to a comp? I really do struggle with you... You are TOTALLY missing the point... After you crying and moaning about libel last time I dared to try to educate you I will leave you be Edited April 30, 2010 by oafc0000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon Posted April 30, 2010 Share Posted April 30, 2010 OK lets try this one, did you vote for Tony over William Hague- who went to a comp? (and incidentally will probably be Deputy Prime Minister if Dave wins). Deputy Prime Minister is a nothing position re-invented by Labour to retain jobs for the boys (Mandelson and Prescott) when they couldn't be given a proper job. William Hague is easily the most capable politician on the shadow front bench, he'll be Foreign or Home Secretary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon Posted April 30, 2010 Share Posted April 30, 2010 I really do struggle with you... You are TOTALLY missing the point... I thought your point was that the Tories are all a bunch of toffs who'll only protect their own, whereas Labour are, er, down wid da masses. Or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted April 30, 2010 Share Posted April 30, 2010 I thought your point was that the Tories are all a bunch of toffs who'll only protect their own, whereas Labour are, er, down wid da masses. Or something. ffs.. yeah but that measure is not done soley off if they went to private school I am sending my kid to private school yet I don't fall into Dave and Osbornes category do I.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boboafc Posted April 30, 2010 Share Posted April 30, 2010 gillan duffy v gordon bigot brown , now the gamebigot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beag_teeets Posted April 30, 2010 Share Posted April 30, 2010 Deputy Prime Minister is a nothing position re-invented by Labour to retain jobs for the boys (Mandelson and Prescott) when they couldn't be given a proper job. William Hague is easily the most capable politician on the shadow front bench, he'll be Foreign or Home Secretary. To be fair that isn't much of a compliment. Hague>>>>>>>>>A bucket of cold cat piss >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the rest of the tory front bench. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon Posted April 30, 2010 Share Posted April 30, 2010 (edited) To be fair that isn't much of a compliment. Hague>>>>>>>>>A bucket of cold cat piss >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the rest of the tory front bench. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gordon Brown and his front bench >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Phil Woolas. Edited April 30, 2010 by garcon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beag_teeets Posted April 30, 2010 Share Posted April 30, 2010 Typical lib dem, can't come up with their own ideas..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudemedic Posted April 30, 2010 Share Posted April 30, 2010 I really do struggle with you... You are TOTALLY missing the point... After you crying and moaning about libel last time I dared to try to educate you I will leave you be Oh really enlighten me (and Garcon). Your point appeared to be that the Tories are a bunch of toffs and Labour are working/middle class and so every working/middle class person should vote Labour as they understand the working/middle class. Yet, when I call you on this stereotype you ignore my reasoned argument against this stereotype with evidence that whilst Cameron is a toff (and so is Osbourne) that didn't stop you voting for the posher person last time (or the time before that, and if you were eligible the time before that). This all seems to stem from the fact Cameron is going to put the cap on inheritance tax at £1million. Given what the average house price is I think the level the Labour government have inheritance tax at is too low, it doesn't seem right that you can work for the state for your entire life and because you bought your house at a certain time and have saved your money wisely that your children will inherit a certain amount that they have to pay tax on this money (which you have paid tax on already). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimsleftfoot Posted April 30, 2010 Share Posted April 30, 2010 (edited) For medicine I don't think that is true. One of my friends at uni was from South bank, Middlesbrough (think Moss Side- and often features in the worst list of places to live and I think has the lowest average house price of anywhere in the country). This is a fairly common policy for unis and if you are a local, and come from a disadvantaged background you can often get in to study medicine with much lower A-Levels than everyone else (you still have to pass the exams though and my mate failed at the first hurdle). I think that is in some part down to Labour. Not wholly since it was an NHS review thing lead by the person who was also Chief Medical Officer under the Tories. Law is something you can do without a Law degree (you do a degree and then study Law postgraduately), but since Law is a varied field this has been around for ages (well before new Labour) but Labour has made it so more people get degrees so more people have the opportunity (especially if they aren't from the traditional professional background). I think the same might apply for accountancy but you'd have to ask an accountant. The Sutton Trust/College of Law make a considerable amount of money available to Universities to support the indentification of bright kids from poor backgrounds at high school level. These kids are then mentored by law undergraduates, attend University training programmes which make them more aware of the opportunities open to them and it also looks good on their UCAS application forms. Similar things also happen for the Sciences, Maths and presumably medicine as well. Edited April 30, 2010 by jimsleftfoot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimsleftfoot Posted April 30, 2010 Share Posted April 30, 2010 (edited) Oh really enlighten me (and Garcon). Your point appeared to be that the Tories are a bunch of toffs and Labour are working/middle class and so every working/middle class person should vote Labour as they understand the working/middle class. Yet, when I call you on this stereotype you ignore my reasoned argument against this stereotype with evidence that whilst Cameron is a toff (and so is Osbourne) that didn't stop you voting for the posher person last time (or the time before that, and if you were eligible the time before that). This all seems to stem from the fact Cameron is going to put the cap on inheritance tax at £1million. Given what the average house price is I think the level the Labour government have inheritance tax at is too low, it doesn't seem right that you can work for the state for your entire life and because you bought your house at a certain time and have saved your money wisely that your children will inherit a certain amount that they have to pay tax on this money (which you have paid tax on already). I get what your saying (though Tony Blairs background wasn't that posh really, hid dad did well for himself), but idealogically speaking, the tories are a posh upper class party backed by millionaires and Labour are a traditionally working class party who have to become a little bit more middle class as the baby boomers have become so, backed by the trade unions. Edited April 30, 2010 by jimsleftfoot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon Posted April 30, 2010 Share Posted April 30, 2010 Typical lib dem, can't come up with their own ideas..... I'm not so tied up in dogma that I can't steal a good idea when I see one... Anyone else see Labour's new election posters this morning? Proof of the full extent of Gordon Brown's control freakery - he's clearly insisted that he must literally write the posters himself. Nice colours Gordon. Now give the crayons back to the children and get your tongue away from that window. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted April 30, 2010 Share Posted April 30, 2010 Oh really enlighten me (and Garcon). Your point appeared to be that the Tories are a bunch of toffs and Labour are working/middle class and so every working/middle class person should vote Labour as they understand the working/middle class. Yet, when I call you on this stereotype you ignore my reasoned argument against this stereotype with evidence that whilst Cameron is a toff (and so is Osbourne) that didn't stop you voting for the posher person last time (or the time before that, and if you were eligible the time before that). This all seems to stem from the fact Cameron is going to put the cap on inheritance tax at £1million. Given what the average house price is I think the level the Labour government have inheritance tax at is too low, it doesn't seem right that you can work for the state for your entire life and because you bought your house at a certain time and have saved your money wisely that your children will inherit a certain amount that they have to pay tax on this money (which you have paid tax on already). You think you can pick a few out of Labour and that's the argument won... Please... You think one Tory leader from a middle class background instead of from Camerons background and that's you winning the argument ? Please... There is nothing reasoned to your stance... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted April 30, 2010 Share Posted April 30, 2010 I'm not so tied up in dogma that I can't steal a good idea when I see one... I must admit I hope they implement the Libs 10k threshold Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted April 30, 2010 Share Posted April 30, 2010 This all seems to stem from the fact Cameron is going to put the cap on inheritance tax at £1million. Given what the average house price is I think the level the Labour government have inheritance tax at is too low, it doesn't seem right that you can work for the state for your entire life and because you bought your house at a certain time and have saved your money wisely that your children will inherit a certain amount that they have to pay tax on this money (which you have paid tax on already). Redistribution of wealth my friend... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opinions4u Posted April 30, 2010 Share Posted April 30, 2010 Redistribution of wealth my friend... Nah. Control over the people. They don't redistribute it. They disincentivise work and waste it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudemedic Posted April 30, 2010 Share Posted April 30, 2010 I get what your saying (though Tony Blairs background wasn't that posh really, hid dad did well for himself), but idealogically speaking, the tories are a posh upper class party backed by millionaires and Labour are a traditionally working class party who have to become a little bit more middle class as the baby boomers have become so, backed by the trade unions. I would agree with you if this was 95 but its 2010 and Labour since the mid 90s have curried favour with the millionaires just as much as the Tories, it is the way politics has become in this country. Just be thankful we haven't gotten to the same stage as the Yanks where their mega rich (including corporations) donate to BOTH parties in order to ensure they can dictate policy in their favour no matter who wins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted April 30, 2010 Share Posted April 30, 2010 (edited) Nah. Control over the people. They don't redistribute it. They disincentivise work and waste it. Well the said idea is to do that... We all know the practise is flawed... but that is not a charge laid at just the Labour party... Edited April 30, 2010 by oafc0000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimsleftfoot Posted April 30, 2010 Share Posted April 30, 2010 I would agree with you if this was 95 but its 2010 and Labour since the mid 90s have curried favour with the millionaires just as much as the Tories, it is the way politics has become in this country. Just be thankful we haven't gotten to the same stage as the Yanks where their mega rich (including corporations) donate to BOTH parties in order to ensure they can dictate policy in their favour no matter who wins. They have tried to but their biggest backers are still the Unions. Labour also only had £8 odd million to spend on the election due to a lack of funding whereas the Tories have been able to spend the full £18 or so million which they are allowed to spend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted April 30, 2010 Share Posted April 30, 2010 Anyone not find it at least a little bit funny to see rudemedic talking himself out of job once qualified. Seriously mate, the torys are going to cut right back on pretty much everything. Protecting the NHS my arse they will... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted April 30, 2010 Share Posted April 30, 2010 Anyone who is pissed off with Labour, I beg you to vote Lib... Don't vote Tory... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted April 30, 2010 Share Posted April 30, 2010 (edited) Can I just point something out...worried about doing this as I don't want people having ago thinking I am being big headed but... My household income is fecking huge compared to most... Not showing off... I vote Labour because I came from a :censored: background and I am not a . I would probably personally do ok out of a Tory government, after all I can afford private education, private health care, I dont need welfare I am well outside of there catchment net, but most working class and a lot of the lower middle class will get destroyed under the Torys. It wont be fair for all, it will totally tilted toward the very upper middle class vote and his (DC) mates... I moaned about losing child benefit and child trust fund but thats only due to my principle of treating children equally. I don't mind having my arsed taxed to death to be frank. Its fair... Labour and the Libs both aim for a fair society. ok it gets ed up some of the time but at least they try!! The Torys won't even try. They you over while telling you they are looking after you and doing things for your own good. Its bollocks and its scary how many people fall for it. Don't make Britain Blue... Please! Vote Lib or Labour... or an other if you must... A lib / labour government could be quite good! Edited April 30, 2010 by Zorrro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudemedic Posted April 30, 2010 Share Posted April 30, 2010 You think you can pick a few out of Labour and that's the argument won... Please... You think one Tory leader from a middle class background instead of from Camerons background and that's you winning the argument ? Please... There is nothing reasoned to your stance... I've already said about Major, Howard and Hague. Maggie Thatcher was the daughter of a Greengrocer. Ted Heath's parents were a carpenter (turned small business man) and a maid. Bearing in mind that takes the Tory party back to the mid 60s. I'm really really struggling how I can argue that the Tories are not as posh as you make them out to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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