General Election

[oafc0000]

I've already said about Major, Howard and Hague. Maggie Thatcher was the daughter of a Greengrocer. Ted Heath's parents were a carpenter (turned small business man) and a maid. Bearing in mind that takes the Tory party back to the mid 60s.

 

I'm really really struggling how I can argue that the Tories are not as posh as you make them out to be.

 

Who do you think funds the Torys ? You think because the find a bunch of middle class leaders they are party formed around the middle classes You really don't get it Thats all part of the deception... The only went for Cameron, millionaire poster boy, as they thought he could hook into the Blair appeal...which has kind of worked...

 

Thatcher married a very wealthy man who but her through her education as a barrister...

 

Here let me help you out

 

http://www.sovereignty.org.uk/features/demow/confund1.html

 

http://respectuk.blogspot.com/2010/02/who-...n-campaign.html

Edited April 30, 2010 by oafc0000

[rudemedic]

They have tried to but their biggest backers are still the Unions. Labour also only had £8 odd million to spend on the election due to a lack of funding whereas the Tories have been able to spend the full £18 or so million which they are allowed to spend.

 

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/poli...icle7109946.ece

 

Scroll halfway down (around the pic of Boris in a car), it lists the Labour donations and mentions that the amount Labour got from the unions has dropped in proportion to its other donations. Its interesting to see how many are now peers thanks to Labour. I'm not saying the Tories wouldn't have done the same though. Labour may have struggled to get more donations due to its policies, especially the National Insurance thing. What Labour (and every other party) got from other people before the election will be revealed on May 4th.

[oafc0000]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/poli...icle7109946.ece

 

Scroll halfway down (around the pic of Boris in a car), it lists the Labour donations and mentions that the amount Labour got from the unions has dropped in proportion to its other donations.

 

So what's your point ?

 

You think Labour can take the Unions money and not have to dance to the pipers song ? If you do, you shouldn't believe everything you read...

 

You reckon a party backed by the city / noble men is going to look after the working and middle class over one backed by the Unions

Edited April 30, 2010 by oafc0000

[oafc0000]

People in the public sector voting Tory (and there are a lot this year apparently) reminds me of this...

 

 

 

[jimsleftfoot]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/poli...icle7109946.ece

 

Scroll halfway down (around the pic of Boris in a car), it lists the Labour donations and mentions that the amount Labour got from the unions has dropped in proportion to its other donations. Its interesting to see how many are now peers thanks to Labour. I'm not saying the Tories wouldn't have done the same though. Labour may have struggled to get more donations due to its policies, especially the National Insurance thing. What Labour (and every other party) got from other people before the election will be revealed on May 4th.

 

Declined as a proportion but still the biggest donation there....is a union. I don't disagree that Labour is different to what it was 25 years ago, it has had to change and develop as pure socialism doesn't work. However, things don't change that much in quarter of a century and most people don't get involved in party politics without being in agreement with the idealogies of the party they associate themselves with.

[oafc0000]

Declined as a proportion but still the biggest donation there....is a union. I don't disagree that Labour is different to what it was 25 years ago, it has had to change and develop as pure socialism doesn't work. However, things don't change that much in quarter of a century and most people don't get involved in party politics without being in agreement with the idealogies of the party they associate themselves with.

 

[rudemedic]

Anyone who is pissed off with Labour, I beg you to vote Lib... Don't vote Tory...

 

This is very funny to me, have a look at the people closest to Labour in the last general election in the consituencies near to Oldham (so home to most of the people on here) every one of the top of my head is Lib Dem. As a Labour supporter you really really really don't want people voting Lib Dem around Oldham (you don't want me to vote Lib Dem either but keep it up and I might throw my personal grudge with a senior Lib Dem man aside and vote for them).

 

Incidentally I'm not pro-Tory (certainly not voting for them), I'm just fed up with people (well you in particular) saying the Tories are toffs and Labour are just working class people who are down with the kids (cheers Garcon). If (and that's a big if) I graduate from medical school I'm a Doctor who went to medical school in UK if the Tories cut the NHS by that much I don't get a job (not likely to happen for numerous reasons the biggest one being they'd be stupid to cut the NHS by that much) I can go elsewhere and earn a nice wage and waste all that tax payers money by not working for the NHS (not something I want to do but I gotta eat).

 

The fact that you big yourself up and say how you make a load of money and then say vote Labour as they are the party of the working class is hypocritical (and if people are laughing at me if I don't have a job thanks to Tory cuts in the NHS- see above) then I'm PMSL about your hypocracy, (I get why you vote Labour as it will help you the most on current evidence)

 

Have a look at the link I posted, from the Times (not some website for George Galloway or something knocked up by anyone) it lists a whole bunch of recent party donations for the Tories and Labour, I'm not saying where the Tories have gotten their money from is not people with too much money (and probably quite Toff) but Labour received £400k from Alan Sugar (who is worth a few bob), and have been caught up in cash for peerages (illegal). Labour have tried to get money from rich people the same as the Tories is just the Tories are better at it this time round (fairly certain labour won the last 3 times though).

 

If you want to big up Labour policy then go ahead, I will try to big up the other parties policies to provide balance (which is what I've been doing in this topic all along) I think Garcon is doing a fine job bigging up Lib Dem policy and Tory policy seems to be not raise national insurance (helping out the state services which pay it and businesses) and raise inheritance tax threshold to 1 million. But please can we take class of the parties out of the discussion as since Tony Blair came along Labour have been sucking up to the mega rich just as much as the Tories. The Tories haven't been all that posh since the 60s (like a lot of politics). You started the most recent discussion by posting a picture of Cameron and Osbourne (and Boris) in their Bullingdon club finery but you forgot to mention Lord Rothschild (also pictured) who Peter Mandelson (unelected peer) spent a week with on a yacht in the Greek Islands (probably trying to raise Labour party funds) whilst he was supposed to be running the country as Gordon Brown was on holiday

[rudemedic]

Declined as a proportion but still the biggest donation there....is a union. I don't disagree that Labour is different to what it was 25 years ago, it has had to change and develop as pure socialism doesn't work. However, things don't change that much in quarter of a century and most people don't get involved in party politics without being in agreement with the idealogies of the party they associate themselves with.

 

So it is. Socialism, in its purist form (aka Communism or at least in my polical knowledge it is but I'm sure some politics person will correct me) doesn't work (all animals are equal but some are more equal than others and all that) its a Utopian pipe dream. Your right most people don't get involved in party politics without some agreement with the original idealogy of that particular party but Labour has changed from being a left wing party to a central party (or centre-left) since John Smith/ Tony Blair. The party that is most left wing of the top 3 currently is probably the Lib Dems but since they have a posh bloke (traditionally right wing) with a personality as their leader they can't capitalise on this.

 

I think its a sad state of affairs that British politics is dominated by 3 parties who are all trying to keep the same ground, a good left wing v. right wing parliament wouldn't have me arguing for the Tories (well more against someone with out of date views)

[Matt]

So it is. Socialism, in its purist form (aka Communism or at least in my polical knowledge it is but I'm sure some politics person will correct me) doesn't work (all animals are equal but some are more equal than others and all that) its a Utopian pipe dream.

As founder member of the Rochdale and District Marxist-Leninist Front, I'm flabberghasted. Brother.

[rudemedic]

As founder member of the Rochdale and District Marxist-Leninist Front, I'm flabberghasted. Brother.

Why?

 

[Matt]

I'm even more flabberghasted now.

 

*mumble* downtrodden proletariat *mutter* ruling bourgeoisie *mumble*

[Stitch_KTF]

I don't agree with that, slaves can be very productive and I don't see their wages go up.

 

But the example is flawed as slaves don't earn a wage in the first place - it's akin to multiplying by zero.

 

In short, a slave is owned not employed.

 

 

I moaned about losing child benefit and child trust fund but thats only due to my principle of treating children equally. I don't mind having my arsed taxed to death to be frank. Its fair...

 

I see how it looks fair to our something for nothing society, but is it ideal? Think how a successful chap like yourself could utilise the capital gained by not having a massive tax bill. I reckon that in most cases it would be utilised more wisely, and ultimately beneficially, than how a government (a 21st century {Labour} one especially so) would 'utilise' it.

 

The difficulty we would then face is how to harness and divide the eventually bigger 'pie', but then that's a good problem to have.

[oafc0000]

I see how it looks fair to our something for nothing society, but is it ideal? Think how a successful chap like yourself could utilise the capital gained by not having a massive tax bill. I reckon that in most cases it would be utilised more wisely, and ultimately beneficially, than how a government (a 21st century {Labour} one especially so) would 'utilise' it.

 

The difficulty we would then face is how to harness and divide the eventually bigger 'pie', but then that's a good problem to have.

 

I could utilise my money a lot better no doubt... But what about people with low incomes or without an income ?

[Stitch_KTF]

I could utilise my money a lot better no doubt... But what about people with low incomes or without an income ?

 

You would give them a job

[oafc0000]

Incidentally I'm not pro-Tory (certainly not voting for them), I'm just fed up with people (well you in particular) saying the Tories are toffs and Labour are just working class people who are down with the kids (cheers Garcon). If (and that's a big if) I graduate from medical school I'm a Doctor who went to medical school in UK if the Tories cut the NHS by that much I don't get a job (not likely to happen for numerous reasons the biggest one being they'd be stupid to cut the NHS by that much) I can go elsewhere and earn a nice wage and waste all that tax payers money by not working for the NHS (not something I want to do but I gotta eat).

 

I NEVER said Labour MPs where working class people. You really are a bit crap at reading and digesting information. But do feel free to misquote me and turn the debate into the debate you want

 

The fact that you big yourself up and say how you make a load of money and then say vote Labour as they are the party of the working class is hypocritical (and if people are laughing at me if I don't have a job thanks to Tory cuts in the NHS- see above) then I'm PMSL about your hypocracy, (I get why you vote Labour as it will help you the most on current evidence)

 

Now feck off... Thats out of order. I never "bigged" myself up... I was demonstrating how voting Tory would probably benefit me but I care about people less well off so I don't. Is caring bigging yourself up ?

 

No one will be laughing at you if you don't get a job... But they might laugh if you voted Tory and cut off your nose to spite your face...

 

Have a look at the link I posted, from the Times (not some website for George Galloway or something knocked up by anyone) it lists a whole bunch of recent party donations for the Tories and Labour, I'm not saying where the Tories have gotten their money from is not people with too much money (and probably quite Toff) but Labour received £400k from Alan Sugar (who is worth a few bob), and have been caught up in cash for peerages (illegal). Labour have tried to get money from rich people the same as the Tories is just the Tories are better at it this time round (fairly certain labour won the last 3 times though).

 

THe vast majority of Labours money comes from the Unions, fact... Vast majority of Tory more comes from where... Right now you see the point I was making silly man...

 

If you want to big up Labour policy then go ahead, I will try to big up the other parties policies to provide balance (which is what I've been doing in this topic all along) I think Garcon is doing a fine job bigging up Lib Dem policy and Tory policy seems to be not raise national insurance (helping out the state services which pay it and businesses) and raise inheritance tax threshold to 1 million. But please can we take class of the parties out of the discussion as since Tony Blair came along Labour have been sucking up to the mega rich just as much as the Tories. The Tories haven't been all that posh since the 60s (like a lot of politics). You started the most recent discussion by posting a picture of Cameron and Osbourne (and Boris) in their Bullingdon club finery but you forgot to mention Lord Rothschild (also pictured) who Peter Mandelson (unelected peer) spent a week with on a yacht in the Greek Islands (probably trying to raise Labour party funds) whilst he was supposed to be running the country as Gordon Brown was on holiday

 

You keep mentioning Garcon ? Can't you hold a debate on your own ?

 

Most of what you have put forward as spectacular been missing the point... But seeing as you are making this into a personal ding for dong and ruining what was a light hearted, slightly piss taking but fun debate I am going to retire from speaking to you now...and turn my attention to Garcon who can at least hold a ding for dong without resorting to being a c***.

Edited April 30, 2010 by oafc0000

[opinions4u]

Deleted

Edited April 30, 2010 by opinions4u

[OldhamSheridan]

I NEVER said Labour MPs where working class people. You really are a bit crap at reading and digesting information. But do feel free to misquote me and turn the debate into the debate you want

 

Now feck off... Thats out of order. I never "bigged" myself up... I was demonstrating how voting Tory would probably benefit me but I care about people less well off so I don't. Is caring bigging yourself up ?

 

No one will be laughing at you if you don't get a job... But they might laugh if you voted Tory and cut off your nose to spite your face...

 

THe vast majority of Labours money comes from the Unions, fact... Vast majority of Tory more comes from where... Right now you see the point I was making silly man...

 

You keep mentioning Garcon ? Can't you hold a debate on your own ?

 

Most of what you have put forward as spectacular been missing the point... But seeing as you are making this into a personal ding for dong and ruining what was a light hearted, slightly piss taking but fun debate I am going to retire from speaking to you now...and turn my attention to Garcon who can at least hold a ding for dong without resorting to being a c***.

 

I'd be amazed if he voted Tory. I suspect your earlier request may be granted and he will vote Lib Dems. I'm guessing they'll piss Durham anyway though.

 

What you have tried to do is make it a class war (is this the policy war not working?). You are right in the who backs who thing. Hence why unions have been allowed to make the law under Labour. But the class thing is largely :censored:, as they are both chasing the same middle-class voters. There is one party for the poor and it isn't Labour or Tory.

 

But, hey, I suspect that one seat in Durham will change hands (City of Durham) as the others are Labour heartland. Sunderland Central though... Well it is called early and if the Conservatives are within 2K, they'll win a majority.

[rudemedic]

But seeing as you are making this into a personal ding for dong and ruining what was a light hearted, slightly piss taking but fun debate I am going to retire from speaking to you now.

 

Good because I was sick of you changing the argument to suit your needs and never ever replying to the salient points of what I was saying just the bits you had a reply to and was going to ignore you from now anyway.

 

OS (who actually knows me) gets my point. But keep up the labour class bigging up and you may find your wish is granted and I vote Lib Dem (not something I want to do either). Incidentally I don't think City of Durham will change hands that easily

[oafc0000]

and was going to ignore you from now anyway.

 

[Gentleman]

Chat Roulette Politics

 

This is mildly relevant

[garcon]

If someone actually shouted, "Show me your cock!" at Gordon Brown, do you think he'd have the presence of mind to say, "Peter's in Hartlepool today." ?

[leeslover]

I was watching a (very good) US satirical show (can;t remember the bloke's name, I'm sure I've seen links to it here though) but even that was making a big thing about GordyBigotGate, analysing him looking like he's been shot when they said, "we've got the tape now," and her face when they told her what he'd said. The whole world is now laughing at the man whose picture adorns BT's love-locket

[leeslover]

If someone actually shouted, "Show me your cock!" at Gordon Brown, do you think he'd have the presence of mind to say, "Peter's in Hartlepool today." ?

Surely that wasn't the name of his barely-legal Brazilian friend who Mandy was using his influence to get to the front of the Passprt queue?

[Gentleman]

I was watching a (very good) US satirical show (can;t remember the bloke's name, I'm sure I've seen links to it here though) but even that was making a big thing about GordyBigotGate, analysing him looking like he's been shot when they said, "we've got the tape now," and her face when they told her what he'd said. The whole world is now laughing at the man whose picture adorns BT's love-locket

 

The Daily Show - Jon Stewart?

[24hoursfromtulsehill]

Surely that wasn't the name of his barely-legal Brazilian friend who Mandy was using his influence to get to the front of the Passprt queue?

 

Wrong again. Quite a habit you've developed. (Is there any way back? Suggestion: check the facts.)

 

Mandy resigned after attempting to influence the passport application process in favour of one of the Hinduja brothers. There was never any suggestion that he influenced, attempted to influence, thought about considering trying to maybe perhaps influence or otherwise the passport application of any personal special friend, including the Brazilian bloke with the cute dog. There's no suggestion that he was barely legal, in either an age or an immigration-status sense.

 

Oh dear.

 

Your blind, mad hatred (in lieu of anything more solid) reminds me of this classic hate piece from the paper that supports Nazis...Read on, MacDuffer...

 

lA bit of homophobia, a bit of xenophobia, a touch of blind hatred and some scarcely credible aside from a snooty Tory and Bingo! A Hate Mail Classic.