View Of Golden Gate Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 (edited) Lets be clear here the only people at fault for these attacks are the ones carrying them out, and the ones radicalising them. If they could have been avoided is a question that needs to be asked, but as intelligent and informed as some of us are we cannot and should not attempt to answer them. For all her faults and there are many, more than any PM in my lifetime and I assume in many of our lifetimes, the blame is not with her. What needs to happen now is we need to ask whether dealing arms with the Saudis should continue, if Trident is needed right now when the biggest threat is at home, if more police cuts really should be happening, and is there a plan to stop ISIS. I accept that we do not need to know the plan, but at least say there is and start moving on it. All parties need to stop using fear and the deaths of the people they are sworn to serve and protect to score political points, stop accusing each other of being unpatriotic, weak and at fault, and work together regardless of the winner on Thursday to fix this. We are at war, stop bitching and start doing. Now on to something that has really irked and quite frankly offended me, her comments that enough is enough. We saw France, Germany almost the entire middle east suffer loss of life and attacks while these cretins were allowed to continue preaching their hate and bile. We allowed freaks like the EDL and Britain's First spread even more lies and hate too, we allowed all this hateful fools fill our children and vulnerable peoples' ears with hate, we allowed people on both sides to be radicalised. Then Westminster was attacked, no change, then Manchester, no change, now enough is enough. Is that what it takes Mrs May? 3 attacks, multiple deaths of innocent men, women and children before you actually seemingly do something. Say what you like about JC, many do, and to be fair I totally understand the difference of opinions on this. I lean towards his way of thinking, in many cases, I do find myself torn on this, but May was in charge. She has had seven years to do something, and it takes all this before she decides its time. She should not be seeking reelection, she is not fit. I'm not saying JC is the answer, I honestly don't know. I'm willing to give him a chance, but totally understand why others aren't. I do know she is not the answer, she is an incompetent disgrace. Edited June 6, 2017 by View Of Golden Gate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UsedtobeWozzer Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 Apparently the Tories are unleashing "attack dog" Boris on Corbyn today so be prepared to hear some words not heard outside the walls of Eton College since the 19th Century. Here he is being exposed as a liar amongst other things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deyres42 Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 Early stage dementia for Abbott maybe? She always used to be pretty sharp on This Week etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deyres42 Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 Labour now strong favourites in Oldham East and Saddleworth, around the 1/2 mark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kowenicki Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 14 minutes ago, deyres42 said: Labour now strong favourites in Oldham East and Saddleworth, around the 1/2 mark. What a shocker... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBosch Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 18 minutes ago, deyres42 said: Early stage dementia for Abbott maybe? She always used to be pretty sharp on This Week etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kowenicki Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 42 minutes ago, UsedtobeWozzer said: Apparently the Tories are unleashing "attack dog" Boris on Corbyn today so be prepared to hear some words not heard outside the walls of Eton College since the 19th Century. Here he is being exposed as a liar amongst other things. or must...deflect...from...diane...abbott... where is that other bloke with serious skeletons during this election.... he is only the shadow chancellor after all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kowenicki Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 Just now, HarryBosch said: yeah he is being a bit kind. she is just terrible in every regard. The police fed (effectively a union) need to be careful deflecting blame for cocking up on the London attack and blaming funding, they might end up with abbott as their boss... imagine that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UsedtobeWozzer Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 6 minutes ago, kowenicki said: or must...deflect...from...diane...abbott... where is that other bloke with serious skeletons during this election.... he is only the shadow chancellor after all. Welcome to the murky world of politics - how's the cognitive dissonance going? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deyres42 Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 Prediction time Tory majority around 50-60. Boris, Hammond, Hunt and Truss removed from positions. Gove returns to front bench. Jezza stays on as leader for time being. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kowenicki Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 Just now, UsedtobeWozzer said: Welcome to the murky world of politics - how's the cognitive dissonance going? do I favour a particular outcome...? yes do I like any of the outcomes, am I inspired by any of them...? no Politics and politicians in this country are truly awful. You are working for a particular party. Why would I (or anyone) listen to you? Your views are biased, preordained and inflexible. You will tow the party line whatever it is in the pursuit of power. That's why Corbyn has dropped and u-turned one every belief he ever held... for power. Power in his hands will be a disaster. I guarantee he will be an unmitigated disaster. I'd rather stick with the devil I know on this occasion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kowenicki Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 (edited) 5 minutes ago, deyres42 said: Prediction time Tory majority around 50-60. Boris, Hammond, Hunt and Truss removed from positions. Gove returns to front bench. Jezza stays on as leader for time being. Hope so. But if Jezza cant win when he has bribed pretty much every section of society then socialism really is dead and he needs to go back to arguing with comrades in darkened rooms again, singing the red flag and attending rallies of empathy with terrorist groups. Edited June 6, 2017 by kowenicki Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UsedtobeWozzer Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 7 minutes ago, kowenicki said: do I favour a particular outcome...? yes do I like any of the outcomes, am I inspired by any of them...? no Politics and politicians in this country are truly awful. You are working for a particular party. Why would I (or anyone) listen to you? Your views are biased, preordained and inflexible. You will tow the party line whatever it is in the pursuit of power. That's why Corbyn has dropped and u-turned one every belief he ever held... for power. Power in his hands will be a disaster. I guarantee he will be an unmitigated disaster. I'd rather stick with the devil I know on this occasion. You argue against yourself though to justify your core belief that everything Corbyn does must be wrong. Example - Corbyn has voted against every piece of terror legislation ergo Corbyn is bad. Not one (your emphasis) of the last 7 Home Secretaries has done anything effective to deal with the threat of terror. By implication therefore the nine major pieces of terror legislation brought before parliament since 9/11 have proven weak and ineffective. Corbyn voted against weak and ineffective legislation. Oh, hang on........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fruitygoo Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 (edited) 16 minutes ago, kowenicki said: do I favour a particular outcome...? yes do I like any of the outcomes, am I inspired by any of them...? no Politics and politicians in this country are truly awful. You are working for a particular party. Why would I (or anyone) listen to you? Your views are biased, preordained and inflexible. You will tow the party line whatever it is in the pursuit of power. That's why Corbyn has dropped and u-turned one every belief he ever held... for power. Power in his hands will be a disaster. I guarantee he will be an unmitigated disaster. I'd rather stick with the devil I know on this occasion. 100% agree with this. The people who blindly defend and support their party regardless genetally cancel each other out in sn election because their vote is always the same. The people who dont favour a party are the ones who decide it and i dont think corbyn and his team have done anywhere near enough to convince. Ive voted for both parties in the past and i look at each party and their policies before i make a decision and for me, it has to be the Tories. Why? Corp Tax wil see people move away from the UK at a time we need yo convince people to stay through Brexit. Jobs will be lost and Corbyn entire spending change depends on what he can gain extra from corp tax. Increased borrowing and defecit meaning more debt. I think the Tories have missed an opportunity to smash Labour out of the park for many years but in fairness, although debt is up, the deficit is down and this represents a huge turnaround in our national finances. Labour will erase that hard work and in 5 yeara the Tories will have to come in and annoy everyone with cuts again. Prediction... Increased majority Labour leader gone (non of his party like him after all) Hunt out, Gove in.. Boris moved elsewhere within cabinet. Edited June 6, 2017 by Fruitygoo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View Of Golden Gate Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 8 minutes ago, Fruitygoo said: Corp Tax wil see people move away from the UK at a time we need yo convince people to stay through Brexit. Jobs will be lost and Corbyn entire spending change depends on what he can gain extra from corp tax. Increased borrowing and defecit meaning more debt. Why? It will be less then most of the other countries, and are you saying that businesses won't need the business of British people? Have businesses fled other countries when they have raised corporation tax? Even Trump led USA have a tax of 35%, so what evidence is there that people will move away? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kowenicki Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 12 minutes ago, UsedtobeWozzer said: You argue against yourself though to justify your core belief that everything Corbyn does must be wrong. Example - Corbyn has voted against every piece of terror legislation ergo Corbyn is bad. Not one (your emphasis) of the last 7 Home Secretaries has done anything effective to deal with the threat of terror. By implication therefore the nine major pieces of terror legislation brought before parliament since 9/11 have proven weak and ineffective. Corbyn voted against weak and ineffective legislation. Oh, hang on........ Corbyn votes against anything terror related, it his the default position. The legislation may have been weak and proved to be ineffective, but without it perhaps circumstances could have been even worse. No shoot to kill the other night would have certainly made matters worse. He was against that until Tuesday morning... when he somehow magically lost his coat of pacifism again. by the way... did you just say no legislation is better than bad legislation.... careful now... ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kowenicki Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 (edited) 6 minutes ago, View Of Golden Gate said: Why? It will be less then most of the other countries, and are you saying that businesses won't need the business of British people? Have businesses fled other countries when they have raised corporation tax? Even Trump led USA have a tax of 35%, so what evidence is there that people will move away? They wont move away, or only a few will. I agree. They will just avoid paying it, thus undermining Corbyn's entire spending plans. Then he will just have to tax everyone a bit earlier than he is going to anyway. People really think he will allow middle earners to not pay more tax!? ha ha haa. Edited June 6, 2017 by kowenicki Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UsedtobeWozzer Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 Just now, kowenicki said: Corbyn votes against anything terror related, it his the default position. The legislation may have been weak and proved to be ineffective, but without it perhaps circumstances could have been even worse. No shoot to kill the other night would have certainly made matters worse. He was against that until Tuesday morning... when he somehow magically lost his coat of pacifism again. by the way... did you just say no legislation is better than bad legislation.... careful now... ;-) More lies - he set out his support for shoot to kill in his leaders report to the NEC following the Paris attacks of 2015. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kowenicki Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 (edited) 2 minutes ago, UsedtobeWozzer said: More lies - he set out his support for shoot to kill in his leaders report to the NEC following the Paris attacks of 2015. and said in Nov 2016 he was against it in a televised interview. Like farron he is also against CCTV prolifieration and greater internet scrutiny. All of which are essential in the modern world of counter terrorist activity. Edited June 6, 2017 by kowenicki Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opinions4u Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 2 minutes ago, View Of Golden Gate said: Why? It will be less then most of the other countries, and are you saying that businesses won't need the business of British people? Have businesses fled other countries when they have raised corporation tax? Even Trump led USA have a tax of 35%, so what evidence is there that people will move away? If you are going to make more money in country A you'll not be investing anywhere near as much capital in country B. Examples: McDonald's pulled out of Iceland. C&A pulled out of the UK. Other companies just reduce investment or close some stores/factories without completely withdrawing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UsedtobeWozzer Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 1 minute ago, kowenicki said: and said in Nov 2016 he was against it in a televised interview. 1 minute ago, kowenicki said: and said in Nov 2016 he was against it in a televised interview. The interview for which the PCC censured the BBC? That one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueatheart Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 1 minute ago, UsedtobeWozzer said: More lies - he set out his support for shoot to kill in his leaders report to the NEC following the Paris attacks of 2015. He didn't in TV interviews at the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kowenicki Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 9 minutes ago, View Of Golden Gate said: Why? It will be less then most of the other countries, and are you saying that businesses won't need the business of British people? Have businesses fled other countries when they have raised corporation tax? Even Trump led USA have a tax of 35%, so what evidence is there that people will move away? Apple and Microsoft have a few hundred billion of reserves sat abroad because they cant 'afford' to invest it in the US. Just one example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kowenicki Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 (edited) 23 minutes ago, UsedtobeWozzer said: The interview for which the PCC censured the BBC? That one? Yeah, that one. The fact he managed to worm out of it doesn't wash with me. Even the Guardian reported it. He was against the killing of Jihadi John. He would rather we marched up to him whilst he was making his latest head off video in an ISIS camp in Syria, arrest him, read him his rights, cuff him and then have marched into a waiting police car and drive him back to the UK.... Edited June 6, 2017 by kowenicki Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueatheart Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 3 minutes ago, kowenicki said: Yeah, that one. The fact he managed to work out of it doesn't wash with me. Even the Guardian reported it. He was against the killing of Jihadi John. He would rather we marched up to him whilst he was making his latest head off video in an ISIS camp in Syria, arrest him, read him his rights, cuff him and then have marched into a waiting police car and drive him back to the UK.... ...and have tea and cakes ready for when he gets here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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