opinions4u Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 5 minutes ago, BP1960 said: I wonder what the reaction would be to the suggestion of entering Division One and Two under 23 teams into the FA Trophy? Panic when they realise no side could muster a team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singe Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 15 hours ago, Latics and England said: If the EFL (still hate that branding) are prepared to allow the Premier League U23s into their cup because the club's will vote for it with the chance to win up to a couple of hundred extra grand, how does it not follow that B teams will ultimately be invited into the league? If the Premier League offered all Lge 1 & 2 clubs say £1m a year to allow B teams in, they will get in. The club's are showing now that heritage has a price. 100% spot on. I reckon they would sell for less than £1m too. Imagine the B Team takes the aplce of us. Or a B Tema is protected from relegation at the expense of us getting back into the League. You could close your mind an insist it would never happen, but that would be very foolish. For me,and many others, then stretching the distinct possibility further, I would abhor it if a B team stopped a team like Tranmere,or Stockport, or even Forest Green Rovers getting back into the League. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
palmer1 Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 12 hours ago, BP1960 said: Just imagine if the Checkatrade trophy had been in existence in the 1990s, we could have been at Wembley with our first and B teams. Wasn't it the Simod Cup then? We as a 'championship' club got knocked out early doors but im sure all league were involved at that point Big Joe hated it and the year before according to his book (I think that were I read it) he even played the kids at Boro but as we played well he took a player off to give Boro an advantage. We only just lost 1-0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scapegoat Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 The inclusion of the B teams is a nonsense, that wasn't made as obvious this season because non of them made to the only match to get any real coverage - the final. Personally, having a cup completion for the lower league clubs, is something that has grown on me. I used to look at it with disdain 20 years ago, but it now represents a genuine chance to win something and get to Wembley for an enjoyable day out. Get the format right and the prize money and it would be amazing decent addition to L1 and L2 teams (maybe even conference) many of whom are out of the cups before Christmas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scapegoat Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 5 minutes ago, palmer1 said: Wasn't it the Simod Cup then? We as a 'championship' club got knocked out early doors but im sure all league were involved at that point Big Joe hated it and the year before according to his book (I think that were I read it) he even played the kids at Boro but as we played well he took a player off to give Boro an advantage. We only just lost 1-0 I cannot remember when this FLT started - was it always a completion for the bottom 2 tiers? There was another cup competition - Simon / Zenith Data Systems etc that we played in during the late 80s/early 90s. Remember getting done 7-2 away at then 1st Division Sheffield United (we were 2-0 up!), and playing Man Utd away and losing a close game 1-0 - that if I recall both managers fielded a decent side for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opinions4u Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 FLT started c1982/3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookersstandandy Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 (edited) 23 minutes ago, palmer1 said: Wasn't it the Simod Cup then? We as a 'championship' club got knocked out early doors but im sure all league were involved at that point This was the Full members Cup, which was a competition that was introduced because English Clubs were banned from Europe...... it was disbanded again when UEFA relented. Was sponsored by Simod and Zenith Data Systems and was independent of the Football League Trophy. Edited May 10, 2017 by lookersstandandy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boundaryblue80 Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 17 hours ago, lookersstandandy said: ....go on then, humour me.... show me how the 'cost' of those games is too much to warrant generating even the 35k, let alone the £90k? As for injuries, suspensions and even fatigue..... I'd say your argument warrants consideration only in an environment where we are pushing from promotion..... which we haven't done for a decade. So if Clarke had got injured in one of our group games (early season) and been out for most of the rest of the season, that wouldn't have impacted us this season? It was a ridiculously huge risk we took playing him in them games this season and we massively got away with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boundaryblue80 Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 17 hours ago, yarddog73 said: All the nonsense peddled with regards to Prem teams wanting B teams included in the League structure has absolutely no foundation and the FL has already stated it will not happen. Yes....all nonsense and completely without foundation this wanting B teams in the league system.... http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/27327502 PS Please don't be fooled into thinking that just because they've said it won't happen, that they're telling the truth as their actions (with the Check-A-Scab trophy) suggests otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deyres42 Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 23 minutes ago, boundaryblue80 said: So if Clarke had got injured in one of our group games (early season) and been out for most of the rest of the season, that wouldn't have impacted us this season? It was a ridiculously huge risk we took playing him in them games this season and we massively got away with it. Any player can sustain any injury at any given time within any game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deyres42 Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 B teams in league won't happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boundaryblue80 Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 (edited) 21 minutes ago, deyres42 said: Any player can sustain any injury at any given time within any game. Very true. To repeat what I said back in Sept/Oct/Nov when Clarke was playing in these games...his age and playing Sat, Tues most weeks etc was more of a risk for him than most others in the team. The injury didn't need to come in the Tuesday night game scab game...over time it could've happened in any of the games but not helped at all by the fact he was playing in these games when he should've been rested. Compare the cost of a couple of wins in the Check-A-Scab versus what I think most would agree, would've been relegation had he been injured for a while. It's just not worth risking it but we did and we will again. For the money! Edited May 10, 2017 by boundaryblue80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookersstandandy Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 (edited) 58 minutes ago, boundaryblue80 said: So if Clarke had got injured in one of our group games (early season) and been out for most of the rest of the season, that wouldn't have impacted us this season? It was a ridiculously huge risk we took playing him in them games this season and we massively got away with it. Given our position at the time, I would concur...... but it paid off didn't it. Assuming we can keep clear of a relegation dog fight this time around..... and sit comfortably in the middle of the league, not threatening top nor bottom, what would you say then? Edited May 10, 2017 by lookersstandandy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boundaryblue80 Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 Just now, lookersstandandy said: Given our position at the time, I would concur...... but it paid off didn't it. Assuming we can keep clear of a relegation dog fight this time around..... and sit comfortably in the middle of the league, not threatening top nor bottom, what would you say then? Well I'm completely against this competition...however, it was the old format (which I went to regularly and enjoyed) and we were clear of relegation then I'd be picking and choosing his games with them increasing the closer we got to the final. The league would always be paramount though so if it were an important game (say we were top 10 fighting for playoffs and faced a playoff contender) coming up next, he'd be rested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookersstandandy Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 3 minutes ago, boundaryblue80 said: Well I'm completely against this competition...however, it was the old format (which I went to regularly and enjoyed) and we were clear of relegation then I'd be picking and choosing his games with them increasing the closer we got to the final. The league would always be paramount though so if it were an important game (say we were top 10 fighting for playoffs and faced a playoff contender) coming up next, he'd be rested. That's fine..... my original point was merely that - if we want the club to stop fu(king up with seemingly short termist high risk decisions, and plan for gradual and sustainable improvement in a manner that prioritises the medium/long term - we can't churlishly discard the FL Trophy as a nonsense tournament, because - in the right circumstances - it could be a financial route to accelerating that improvement. I bet Oxford - who've reached the final for 2 years on the bounce - are grateful for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevie_J Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 14 hours ago, singe said: Ridiculous statement. Here is the FA response to the Accrington Stanley Chairman's comments. They are just going to do what they want, and the FL is suppine. Has Barry finally got a job at the FA? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boundaryblue80 Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 Just now, lookersstandandy said: That's fine..... my original point was merely that - if we want the club to stop fu(king up with seemingly short termist high risk decisions, and plan for gradual and sustainable improvement in a manner that prioritises the medium/long term - we can't churlishly discard the FL Trophy as a nonsense tournament, because - in the right circumstances - it could be a financial route to accelerating that improvement. I bet Oxford - who've reached the final for 2 years on the bounce - are grateful for it. To which my point is that your point will be made redundant once (what I believe) the main goal of an influx of B teams into the lower leagues happens. Taking the places of our teams, pushing us further into the abyss. Any such threat of that happening should be fought/resisted from day one IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deyres42 Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 16 minutes ago, boundaryblue80 said: To which my point is that your point will be made redundant once (what I believe) the main goal of an influx of B teams into the lower leagues happens. Taking the places of our teams, pushing us further into the abyss. Any such threat of that happening should be fought/resisted from day one IMO. How many come in? What is the criteria? Who drops out? League expanded? Too many questions for it to ever become reality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boundaryblue80 Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 Just now, deyres42 said: How many come in? What is the criteria? Who drops out? League expanded? Too many questions for it to ever become reality. The answers to all them questions will lie inside the Spanish, Italian, Dutch, German etc football associations.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookersstandandy Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 (edited) 44 minutes ago, boundaryblue80 said: To which my point is that your point will be made redundant once (what I believe) the main goal of an influx of B teams into the lower leagues happens. Taking the places of our teams, pushing us further into the abyss. Any such threat of that happening should be fought/resisted from day one IMO. ...you're dealing in if, buts, maybe's and conjectures.....all I am saying is, take the FL Trophy [with or without U23 Prem/Champ teams - I'd prefer it without] seriously, cos the money we could earn from it could improve us...... Edited May 10, 2017 by lookersstandandy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Latics and England Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 22 minutes ago, deyres42 said: How many come in? What is the criteria? Who drops out? League expanded? Too many questions for it to ever become reality. If it was really simplistic, in that: Ten teams as selected by the Premier League (both Manchester clubs, both Merseyside clubs, Chelsea, Arsenal, Tottenham, Newcastle, West Ham & Southampton) are invited to enter a new League 3 along with the top 14 from the Conference League 3 is simply added to the pyramid between Lge 2 and the Conference Relegation and promotion is unchanged except that the B Teams cannot be relegated from Lge 3 or promoted from Lge 1 Lge 1 solidarity payments to each club increase by £1m per year Lge 2 solidarity payments to each club increase by £0.75m per year Lge 3 clubs get solidarity payments of £0.5m per year How do you think that Simon Corney would vote (taking him as a fairly standard owner at our level)? Although simplistic, this seems a realistic offer to me. It would only cost the Premier League £54m per year or alternatively £5.4m per club if paid for by the 10 invited clubs. This is an absolute drop in the ocean for them but would be enough to turn the heads of enough clubs to make it viable. You could double it if you wanted, still nothing significant for the Premier League but way too much for most lower league chairmen to turn down. Even if a club like us realised that this could very quickly lead to relegation if the B Teams were competitive, we would simply see that we would still be £750k better off than by not taking the deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macca Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 What would you do if B Teams did join the Football League? Would you stop going altogether? Not go to the B Team games? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deyres42 Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 Lawsuits ahoy in that scenario. I know we are talking in hypotheticals but limited/no promotions or relegations for them but for us kills it stone dead. What if they get bored of it after a year? Can they just drop out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singe Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 (edited) 3 hours ago, deyres42 said: How many come in? What is the criteria? Who drops out? League expanded? Too many questions for it to ever become reality. All easily overcomeable. Whoever "they" want" or "wants tocome in, whoever brings the biggest crowds, whoever is in the bottom spaces or they expand for a season, If the League expands, then there will still be relegation. And it could still be us, BUT they are likely to have an exemption for B Teams. Rugby League has shown closed shops rarely work. Even if they allow relegation into non League, that is still an established club relegated. It only needs 40 teams to think selfishly and it would happen, only a question of how much for. I am astounded that you are taking the word of FL as gospel. Or even Chairmen. What if SImon Corney said he was going to vote no to B Teams, would you actually beleive he would do it? Given your posts so far I highly doubt it, until he proved it. Notts county fans are up in arms over the fact that they were consulted, and yet the club announced they had voted for the least popular option ie current format including B Teams. Zero evidence that B Teams would never join the Leeague, but penty of evidence Charimen would vote for B Teamsinot the League for the money. Edited May 10, 2017 by singe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singe Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 12 minutes ago, deyres42 said: Lawsuits ahoy in that scenario. I know we are talking in hypotheticals but limited/no promotions or relegations for them but for us kills it stone dead. What if they get bored of it after a year? Can they just drop out? Not if the clubs themselves vote for it. I appreciate your clarification, and your reasons for it not happening are why many are opposing it. Many believe those reasons will be ignored for the immediate £'s gained. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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