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So we're pretty much over with this season


oafcprozac
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Define this season  

188 members have voted

  1. 1. Which of the following best sums up your 07/08 experience?

    • Success, afterall look at the injuries we've had to contend with AND we won at Leeds at Everton. That'll do fer me!
      50
    • Above Average, Top 10 any season is a good achievement
      37
    • Average, as expected, after losing Wellens and Porter
      53
    • Disappointing - should've been higher
      33
    • Very Disappointing, with the squad we assmbled we should have walked this poor league
      13
    • Catastrophic, we're doomed, burn Shez at the stake etc...
      2


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Now the season is pretty much over, how do we feel at the lads achievements this year? For me personally, disappointed as yet again we have failed in a poor league. There's always next season and hopefully with the right additions and a bit more professionalism within the physio set up along with a full pre-season for Hughesy may see us hit the ground running. As for Shez I'll support him until Christmas as long as he learns from his mistakes and shows signs of improving on this season both on and off the field.

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average. I expected a long hard season and we have got one. Bar the odd highlight. Leeds away Everton etc. its been a crap season in a league as weak as its ever beem. I have said all along that the balance of the team wasnt right and hasnt been all season. With a couple of decent additions we would have been near the plays off or above easily.

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Disappointing again. Recent injuries have clouded how poor we were early on, the signing of some poor players who were, in most cases, no better than what we let go set us back when we really should have kicked on from reaching the play-offs.

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average. I expected a long hard season and we have got one. Bar the odd highlight. Leeds away Everton etc. its been a crap season in a league as weak as its ever beem. I have said all along that the balance of the team wasnt right and hasnt been all season. With a couple of decent additions we would have been near the plays off or above easily.

 

I'm in the disappointed camp. Shez started the season withoiut a leftback and a midfield talisman that (A) hadn't been accounted for throughout pre-season and (B) wasn't even bloody fit. That cost us a good start and we were always playing catch up after that. No coincidence that after KK left the home form improved markedly as did Allott's form.

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How can anyone be anything other than disappointed with this season?

 

We reached the Play-Offs last season and Sheridan then had time and resources to strengthen and go even further. More wrong decisions than right were then made on incoming/outgoing players and basically the opportunity was squandered. Despite this, Sheridan then had ample opportunity throughout the season to right those wrongs but his hesitation, inexperience or plain error squandered those too.

 

With whatever players we had, Sheridan's tactics and inability to motivate meant failure on the pitch too. We've struggled throughout the season with very little to be joyous about. The pinnacle of this was ten or more games to go when Sheridan had effectively written off this season despite ample games left for success. He stated that the Play-Offs weren't possible and then started crowing about next season...that's just after he stated that a lot of our players wasn't good enough for the step up anyway!

 

Frankly the odd game has papered over the cracks and his playing achievements for us in the past are hiding his incompetence as a manager. I fully agree that managers should be given time and that the chop and change approach doesn't work. However, we cannot hide the fact that perhaps we have the wrong person in charge and avoiding the chop and change approach should only be applied when you have someone worthwhile in charge to be patient with.

 

I'm sorry but in the two full seasons in charge, I have seen very little to be enthusiastic about with Sheridan and he definitely needs to go. How much I would love to be proved wrong as I will never forget how good the bloke was on the pitch but great players don't always make great managers.

 

I expect the flack in return because it's a matter of opinion and some are blinded by the man rather than the manager. I also expect people to go on about injuries but Sheridan has had greater opportunity than the majority in this league to address this too - funds to bring in physios, new players etc - but he hesitated or made wrong decisions.

 

He needs to go. I would say as soon as the season ends but I would even recommend asap so that we have the advantage over other teams to get the right man in before other clubs decide to replace their managers in the close season.

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How can anyone be anything other than disappointed with this season?

 

We reached the Play-Offs last season and Sheridan then had time and resources to strengthen and go even further. More wrong decisions than right were then made on incoming/outgoing players and basically the opportunity was squandered. Despite this, Sheridan then had ample opportunity throughout the season to right those wrongs but his hesitation, inexperience or plain error squandered those too.

 

With whatever players we had, Sheridan's tactics and inability to motivate meant failure on the pitch too. We've struggled throughout the season with very little to be joyous about. The pinnacle of this was ten or more games to go when Sheridan had effectively written off this season despite ample games left for success. He stated that the Play-Offs weren't possible and then started crowing about next season...that's just after he stated that a lot of our players wasn't good enough for the step up anyway!

 

Frankly the odd game has papered over the cracks and his playing achievements for us in the past are hiding his incompetence as a manager. I fully agree that managers should be given time and that the chop and change approach doesn't work. However, we cannot hide the fact that perhaps we have the wrong person in charge and avoiding the chop and change approach should only be applied when you have someone worthwhile in charge to be patient with.

 

I'm sorry but in the two full seasons in charge, I have seen very little to be enthusiastic about with Sheridan and he definitely needs to go. How much I would love to be proved wrong as I will never forget how good the bloke was on the pitch but great players don't always make great managers.

 

I expect the flack in return because it's a matter of opinion and some are blinded by the man rather than the manager. I also expect people to go on about injuries but Sheridan has had greater opportunity than the majority in this league to address this too - funds to bring in physios, new players etc - but he hesitated or made wrong decisions.

 

He needs to go. I would say as soon as the season ends but I would even recommend asap so that we have the advantage over other teams to get the right man in before other clubs decide to replace their managers in the close season.

 

 

You make some valid points as many have done in the Shez out camp BUT who replaces him?

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Before the season started I was less sure than normal how we'd do and hedged my bets on finishing around 10th.

 

As that's where we're headed, I'll say average. Yes, given the injuries I think we've done well to stay on the edge of the play-off hunt for so long, but having said that the real damage to the season was done in the first few weeks with (another) slow start.

 

I definitely want to see Sheridan stay. But what I don't want to see is yet another huge turnover of players. We have the basis of a good squad, and three or four additions - plus another year's experience for the youngsters - should see us take it up a level.

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At the start of the season I was hopeful of us making the play-offs, so I have to be disappointed now that it looks like we aren’t getting there. That’s just how I approach the game though, I always go into the season, and usually every match, expecting success. I suppose we all cope in our own ways.

 

I would go along with Prozac to some degree, I think Kilkenny’s signing was bad news for us. Although I wasn’t against it at the time I didn’t share the euphoria that some felt, it seemed to tear up the system we would otherwise have gone with and affected our balance – from the word go it seemed to leave Shez unsure about what shape and personnel he wanted to use. I just don’t think he’s a good enough player to justify the upheaval that the signing entailed.

 

Oh well, on to next season. I reckon we’ll do it this time :)

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How can anyone be anything other than disappointed with this season?

 

We reached the Play-Offs last season and Sheridan then had time and resources to strengthen and go even further. More wrong decisions than right were then made on incoming/outgoing players and basically the opportunity was squandered. Despite this, Sheridan then had ample opportunity throughout the season to right those wrongs but his hesitation, inexperience or plain error squandered those too.

 

With whatever players we had, Sheridan's tactics and inability to motivate meant failure on the pitch too. We've struggled throughout the season with very little to be joyous about. The pinnacle of this was ten or more games to go when Sheridan had effectively written off this season despite ample games left for success. He stated that the Play-Offs weren't possible and then started crowing about next season...that's just after he stated that a lot of our players wasn't good enough for the step up anyway!

 

Frankly the odd game has papered over the cracks and his playing achievements for us in the past are hiding his incompetence as a manager. I fully agree that managers should be given time and that the chop and change approach doesn't work. However, we cannot hide the fact that perhaps we have the wrong person in charge and avoiding the chop and change approach should only be applied when you have someone worthwhile in charge to be patient with.

 

I'm sorry but in the two full seasons in charge, I have seen very little to be enthusiastic about with Sheridan and he definitely needs to go. How much I would love to be proved wrong as I will never forget how good the bloke was on the pitch but great players don't always make great managers.

 

I expect the flack in return because it's a matter of opinion and some are blinded by the man rather than the manager. I also expect people to go on about injuries but Sheridan has had greater opportunity than the majority in this league to address this too - funds to bring in physios, new players etc - but he hesitated or made wrong decisions.

 

He needs to go. I would say as soon as the season ends but I would even recommend asap so that we have the advantage over other teams to get the right man in before other clubs decide to replace their managers in the close season.

 

I see us as an improving middle-of-the-league club with the size that we are at the moment, so I believe that last season was a major over-achievement getting to the playoffs and although I was hopeful of a similar season this time around I can't say that I expected it.

 

If we were in the bottom half or being threatened with relegation then yes I agree that Shez should go but for a first time manager I would say that these first two seasons of likely top half finishes have been a success and he certainly warrants a 3rd year and he definitely doesn't 'need' to go. I believe that every time a club sacks a manager within 2 or 3 seasons without the club moving up or down a division it takes the club back to where they were when the manager got the job. This is what the problem would be if we sacked Shez now, a new manager would come in and would most likely need a year or so to make it his team so promotion would be out of the question next season. Very few managers gain promotion in their 1st season at a club and the chances of us finding a manager like that are unlikely.

 

I agree with what you and other people say about some of Shez's wrong decisions, but he has made enough right ones to continue as manager, the biggest being giving our young players chances to shine in the 1st team (remember this is what everyone was crying out for when Moore was in charge).

 

Don't get me wrong I'm not blindly worshipping Shez because I believe this next season coming up is a fantastic chance for promotion (although the rest of the league will probably only see us as dark horses for the title) so the pressure on him to do well will be very big, and if proves that he hasn't learnt from his mistakes and doesn't get us anywhere near promotion then I will probably be one of the 1st to call for his head.

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I would go along with Prozac to some degree, I think Kilkenny’s signing was bad news for us. Although I wasn’t against it at the time I didn’t share the euphoria that some felt, it seemed to tear up the system we would otherwise have gone with and affected our balance – from the word go it seemed to leave Shez unsure about what shape and personnel he wanted to use. I just don’t think he’s a good enough player to justify the upheaval that the signing entailed.

 

A system and shape we had worked on in the pre season friendlies with Liddell at the top of the diamond four. It wasn't perfect, far from it but it was getting there. We then sign Kilkenny and the preparation that had been put in pre season was out of the window. Liddell was benched for the Swansea game and Kilkenny was straight in. The shape was completely changed to suit Kilkenny and that was that.

 

I wonder if we'll try the diamond again this summer. Clearly if Liddell leaves we'd need another intelligent player to play at the head of it though.

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The most important thing about Shez and his decisions is that, as he continues to learn in the job...

 

1. He learns from the wrong decisions and doesn't make the same ones again.

2. The proportion of right and wrong decisions keeps improving.

 

I think he is learning, and I think we'll see more evidence of that in the summer's transactions and how we start next season.

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I definitely want to see Sheridan stay. But what I don't want to see is yet another huge turnover of players. We have the basis of a good squad, and three or four additions - plus another year's experience for the youngsters - should see us take it up a level.

 

Same here. A huge turnover of players, even if they're better than what we've got, will have a negative impact on the team. We will get all the 'need time to gel' excuses which we really don't need and the season will start slowly again. Whether we do this or not will be the first indicator as to whether Shez is good enough to take us up next season.

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How can anyone be anything other than disappointed with this season?

 

We reached the Play-Offs last season and Sheridan then had time and resources to strengthen and go even further. More wrong decisions than right were then made on incoming/outgoing players and basically the opportunity was squandered. Despite this, Sheridan then had ample opportunity throughout the season to right those wrongs but his hesitation, inexperience or plain error squandered those too.

 

With whatever players we had, Sheridan's tactics and inability to motivate meant failure on the pitch too. We've struggled throughout the season with very little to be joyous about. The pinnacle of this was ten or more games to go when Sheridan had effectively written off this season despite ample games left for success. He stated that the Play-Offs weren't possible and then started crowing about next season...that's just after he stated that a lot of our players wasn't good enough for the step up anyway!

 

Frankly the odd game has papered over the cracks and his playing achievements for us in the past are hiding his incompetence as a manager. I fully agree that managers should be given time and that the chop and change approach doesn't work. However, we cannot hide the fact that perhaps we have the wrong person in charge and avoiding the chop and change approach should only be applied when you have someone worthwhile in charge to be patient with.

 

I'm sorry but in the two full seasons in charge, I have seen very little to be enthusiastic about with Sheridan and he definitely needs to go. How much I would love to be proved wrong as I will never forget how good the bloke was on the pitch but great players don't always make great managers.

 

I expect the flack in return because it's a matter of opinion and some are blinded by the man rather than the manager. I also expect people to go on about injuries but Sheridan has had greater opportunity than the majority in this league to address this too - funds to bring in physios, new players etc - but he hesitated or made wrong decisions.

 

He needs to go. I would say as soon as the season ends but I would even recommend asap so that we have the advantage over other teams to get the right man in before other clubs decide to replace their managers in the close season.

 

Agreed. I starting think there is something strange about the passionate defense of Sheridan on the Board. Critics get hammered and even insulted in such a way as to make it bizarre, but why? I'm beginning to suspect some kind of homo-erotic connection!!!

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Agreed. I starting think there is something strange about the passionate defense of Sheridan on the Board. Critics get hammered and even insulted in such a way as to make it bizarre, but why? I'm beginning to suspect some kind of homo-erotic connection!!!

 

All well and good but WHO replaces him and are they good enough to take us forward. Binning the manager fair enough, but who do you suggest comes in?

Edited by oafcprozac
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Agreed. I starting think there is something strange about the passionate defense of Sheridan on the Board. Critics get hammered and even insulted in such a way as to make it bizarre, but why? I'm beginning to suspect some kind of homo-erotic connection!!!

 

See that's the type of comments that makes me lose respect for the people who want Shez out. Incredibly defensive. 'Critics get hammered' no they don't, generally they get disagreed with but they have reasons to back up their opinions, just like when most Shez outers disagree with Shez inners.

 

Also, you're gay not me! :wink:

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All well and good but WHO replaces him and are they good enough to take us forward. Bining the manager fair enough, but who do you suggest comes in?

 

 

That's a fair point. I'm not disputing the debate is justified from both angles. It's just that a group of members don't just defend the manager they embark on rants which often become not only passionate but personal. IMO Sheridan has the makings of a good coach, trying to play football, but management skills are different. Royle was not a great coach, but he was good at the management side, the politics, the wheeling and dealing, the organization and the man management. I can't help thinking Sheridan would've been better off under an experienced wing.

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I went for the "very disappointed" option.

 

I don't necessarily think it's a poor League as there are some very good Clubs in League One with much bigger budgets than us and nor do I think that we should have walked it. I can see why it is called poor though as it was there for the taking for any side with a modicum of consistency.

 

The reason that I am "very disappointed" is based on the expectation that I had before the Season started. When you look back at individual games, there must be 20-30 points (possibly more) that we have frittered away. Half that number and we would be comfortably in the play-offs and with a bit more luck, we'd possibly be looking at autos or even the Title.

 

Yes we have had injuries. That is an undoubted factor. But looking back at individual games, so many were there for the taking even with the side that we put out onto the pitch. We are just totally inconsistent (never won more than 2 games on the trot all Season despite a run of 7 consecutive away victories) and unless that gets sorted, we will never be serious contenders.

 

To me, we are no further forward now than we were last Season and it worries me that we could be saying exactly the same in 12 months time.

 

There is only one person responsible for this and he really needs to step up to the plate for Season 2008/ 2009 and show that he has learned from his self-admitted mistakes with regard to tactics; team selection and in the transfer market. The clock is already ticking and in some respects, it is a blessing that we will not have the distractions of the Play-offs to set us back by a month as happened last Year. We'll also not have the Contract wrangles either which undoubtedly delayed the plans as to how the budget could be spent. Let's hope we get some decent early signings and that the pre-Season isn't the shambles that it was last summer.

 

Shez in for now but he's on borrowed time IMO.

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I've gone for disapointing should have been higher simply because the division is so poor again this year. The teams showing consistency are up there. I feel there is something seriously wrong with the training structure to collect the type of injuries so frequently. I'd give them a brief holiday and get the lot back training early working on flexibility, stamina, speed training, diet then ball work.

 

John Harbin @ the club, major work of flexibility, speed & stamina = minimal injuries resulting from muscle pulls / tweaks etc

 

No John Harbin / possible flaws in the training regime at the moment = the worst sequence of injuries i can remember, a large number of which are muscle pulls etc.

 

A MUST for the pre-season is a re-evaluation of the training methods we currently imploy, and a hunt for a PROPER full-time physio, because we can't afford another season as bad as this one injury wise.

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That's a fair point. I'm not disputing the debate is justified from both angles. It's just that a group of members don't just defend the manager they embark on rants which often become not only passionate but personal. IMO Sheridan has the makings of a good coach, trying to play football, but management skills are different. Royle was not a great coach, but he was good at the management side, the politics, the wheeling and dealing, the organization and the man management. I can't help thinking Sheridan would've been better off under an experienced wing.

 

I said that after our poor start LAST season, and nothing has happened to convince me otherwise. Shez comes across as too proud to admit his shortcomings, D.O.F doesn't always work but Lennie Lawrence at Brizzle Rovers has helped Paul Trollope no end. Joe Royle may not be the answer but Shez's biggest mistake was not bringing in an experienced head to be First Team Coach, I remember many on JK were disappointed when Tommy (not easy for me to say as he was a Latics legend in my eyes) was given the job. An experienced coach who isn't bezzie mates with half the squad and known the nippers since they were 12 may well be in order. Billy Dearden, Willie Donachie, Sammy Lee etc.. would be ideal. Let Shez learn how to manage with authority and learn how to come up with ideas that are not only refreshing but at least demonstrate he has a Plan B and not the decisiveness of Homer Simpson stuck in an alleyway between Lardlad Donuts and Krusty Burger. Which has been all too apparent in the two years he has been manager.

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When Shez took over, it was his choice of backroom team that surprised me more than TTA picking him as manager. I was thinking along similar lines to the above - specifically that we needed a properly experienced pair of hands as Shez's assistant.

 

The problem with either that or appointing an experienced Director of Football is that respective positions and responsibilities have to be ABSOLUTELY clear to all concerned, and the Board has to show TOTAL faith in the Manager. Even then, if things don't go well it's all too easy for the Manager's position to be undermined by the presence of someone more senior/experienced.

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I went for the "very disappointed" option.

 

I don't necessarily think it's a poor League as there are some very good Clubs in League One with much bigger budgets than us and nor do I think that we should have walked it. I can see why it is called poor though as it was there for the taking for any side with a modicum of consistency.

 

The reason that I am "very disappointed" is based on the expectation that I had before the Season started. When you look back at individual games, there must be 20-30 points (possibly more) that we have frittered away. Half that number and we would be comfortably in the play-offs and with a bit more luck, we'd possibly be looking at autos or even the Title.

 

Yes we have had injuries. That is an undoubted factor. But looking back at individual games, so many were there for the taking even with the side that we put out onto the pitch. We are just totally inconsistent (never won more than 2 games on the trot all Season despite a run of 7 consecutive away victories) and unless that gets sorted, we will never be serious contenders.

 

To me, we are no further forward now than we were last Season and it worries me that we could be saying exactly the same in 12 months time.

 

There is only one person responsible for this and he really needs to step up to the plate for Season 2008/ 2009 and show that he has learned from his self-admitted mistakes with regard to tactics; team selection and in the transfer market. The clock is already ticking and in some respects, it is a blessing that we will not have the distractions of the Play-offs to set us back by a month as happened last Year. We'll also not have the Contract wrangles either which undoubtedly delayed the plans as to how the budget could be spent. Let's hope we get some decent early signings and that the pre-Season isn't the shambles that it was last summer.

 

Shez in for now but he's on borrowed time IMO.

 

Couldn't have put it better myself, spot on!

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How can anyone be anything other than disappointed with this season?

 

We reached the Play-Offs last season and Sheridan then had time and resources to strengthen and go even further. More wrong decisions than right were then made on incoming/outgoing players and basically the opportunity was squandered. Despite this, Sheridan then had ample opportunity throughout the season to right those wrongs but his hesitation, inexperience or plain error squandered those too.

 

With whatever players we had, Sheridan's tactics and inability to motivate meant failure on the pitch too. We've struggled throughout the season with very little to be joyous about. The pinnacle of this was ten or more games to go when Sheridan had effectively written off this season despite ample games left for success. He stated that the Play-Offs weren't possible and then started crowing about next season...that's just after he stated that a lot of our players wasn't good enough for the step up anyway!

 

Frankly the odd game has papered over the cracks and his playing achievements for us in the past are hiding his incompetence as a manager. I fully agree that managers should be given time and that the chop and change approach doesn't work. However, we cannot hide the fact that perhaps we have the wrong person in charge and avoiding the chop and change approach should only be applied when you have someone worthwhile in charge to be patient with.

 

I'm sorry but in the two full seasons in charge, I have seen very little to be enthusiastic about with Sheridan and he definitely needs to go. How much I would love to be proved wrong as I will never forget how good the bloke was on the pitch but great players don't always make great managers.

 

I expect the flack in return because it's a matter of opinion and some are blinded by the man rather than the manager. I also expect people to go on about injuries but Sheridan has had greater opportunity than the majority in this league to address this too - funds to bring in physios, new players etc - but he hesitated or made wrong decisions.

 

He needs to go. I would say as soon as the season ends but I would even recommend asap so that we have the advantage over other teams to get the right man in before other clubs decide to replace their managers in the close season.

 

 

And who would the "right" man be?

 

Please don't put Richie's name forward.

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And who would the "right" man be?

 

Please don't put Richie's name forward.

 

 

That's the problem, those that want Shez out fair enough, they are entitled to their opinion, but why not back up the argument by making a suggestion of who to replace Shez? That's why many get the grief they are doing. Back up your argument constructively with a suggested replacement and how the candidate can take us forward and i'm sure more will be accomodating and respectful of their viewpoint.

Edited by oafcprozac
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John Harbin @ the club, major work of flexibility, speed & stamina = minimal injuries resulting from muscle pulls / tweaks etc

 

No John Harbin / possible flaws in the training regime at the moment = the worst sequence of injuries i can remember, a large number of which are muscle pulls etc.

 

A MUST for the pre-season is a re-evaluation of the training methods we currently imploy, and a hunt for a PROPER full-time physio, because we can't afford another season as bad as this one injury wise.

 

 

We had our fair share of injuries under Dowie and Harbin. Josh Low was in and out of the team, as was Carss, Killen, Holden etc..... all with muscle problems. And many were criticising Dowie and Harbin's training regime when we had the much depleted squad in 03/04, some said the training programme was far too harsh for kids such as Vernon, Hall, Haining etc...

 

Then add the long term casualties during that season such as Wijnhard, Hill etc...(02/03)

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