RoytonBlueLad Posted April 10, 2008 Share Posted April 10, 2008 (edited) I'm glad you have cleared that up. 16 assists last season were pointless then? KtF, Derek. It was more 19! His best days had gone when he signed for us. That's why we got him. If he had anything serious left in the tank he wouldn't be at this level. When fit he's more than adequate. A bit like Stam has been this season. Edited April 10, 2008 by RoytonBlueLad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemma06 Posted April 10, 2008 Share Posted April 10, 2008 Oh here we go.. I was waiting for that little gem to come back up.. we have discussed this time and time again... he got 16 assists in half a season then went Shocking, and was god awful for the last half of the season... except at brighton, where even i admit he played well... he has given us a season and a half of nothing... that is what I base my comments on - and I touched on this above, I even thought someone else could offer more when he was putting those crosses in.. Could that be due to Porter playing through injury and Macca not being at his best (as was Lids i admit) and so there was no-one getting on the end of his balls into the box? All of our players suffered a loss of form towards the end of last season not just Lids Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saddylatic Posted April 10, 2008 Share Posted April 10, 2008 im sorry but for me liddell has to go. He hasn't got the pace anymore to be a striker and the same applies on the wing. The difference that having smalley and taylor out there is that we have had two players with pace to track back and beat fullbacks (even if one of them is in a position they shouldn't be!) Yes i agree Liddell probably has the best passing/crossing ability at the club, but ive bever been impressed with him really since he signed. Yes he puts a good ball in most of the time but that is not enough for a winger in the modern game these days. Smalley and Taylr can beat players with pace and create chances/bring others into play. As Liddell knows he cant beat a man anymore, he always gets the ball, jogs back and passes to eardley then points at a player in space and the game slows down when he gets the ball. I agree he would be a good squad player to have when we need someone to help us out in games but for me i'd let him go as i dont feel he can do it anymore, i feel he hinders the team rather than helps us. He is also one of the highest earners (im led to believe 3-4k a week). Smalley and Taylor are our right wingers now for me, let liddell go, thanks for the service but time to go - get 2 LEFT FOOTED!! players in at lb and lw and get some real balance in the side and we'll do well next year - if warne was too old to kepp then the same surely applies to liddell, hes 35. next year: crossley/gk/bell eardley/lomax (lomax and another rb if eardley sold) hazell/gregan/stam/thompson/cb lb/black smalley/taylor allott/mcdonald/cm/cm/chalmers lw hughes/davies/st/alessandra/wolfenden id let liddell go as well as kalala and thompson but thommo would do as backup if there is no one better floating around, would look to have 5 cb's if poss. so thats 1gk, 1cb(2 if thompson goes) 1lb, 2cm's with kalala going, 1 lw and 1 quality striker. so 6-7 players to give us strenghth in depth and a chance of a real push. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerekWilson_1968 Posted April 10, 2008 Share Posted April 10, 2008 (edited) Oh here we go.. I was waiting for that little gem to come back up.. we have discussed this time and time again... he got 16 assists in half a season then went Shocking, and was god awful for the last half of the season... except at brighton, where even i admit he played well... he has given us a season and a half of nothing... that is what I base my comments on - and I touched on this above, I even thought someone else could offer more when he was putting those crosses in.. I can see you are a man of facts Derek, and not watching when a player falls apart (or watching a good young player grow) - I wish it was different but I cant help but feel Liddell's best days are well behind him... you can cling on to historical data for all you want, but I cant change that i have seen a player in decline for 3 years... an indian summer of assists 18 months ago does little to sway that impression.... And surely by applying the same thought process, you could mention that it has been years since our supposed star striker bagged double figures, for what ever reason it may be, that he is aging and a long time out of the game, his fitness isn't what it once was, he has only played in around 35% of our games this season etc. etc. If you don't like him purely on the basis that you don't like him, then fair do's (that's much the same as the way that I judge Chris Taylor), but to try and wrap it up in these 'supposed facts' to support your argument but not apply the same rationale to your critique of Hughes is unfair on Lids I feel. Horses for courses and all that, but if you just don't like him it is fine to say just that. KtF, Derek. Edited April 10, 2008 by DerekWilson_1968 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudemedic Posted April 10, 2008 Share Posted April 10, 2008 I was initially very pleased about signing Liddell as he is/was a quality player who has taken us apart on more than one occassion. He gets a lot of stick for not tracking back or running a lot (especially from the 'lookers') but i'd rather have quality over effort from a forward player any day of the week. However I feel the odds of him contributing to the team on a playing front are reducing by the day as he gets older and his legs go even more (his running ability wasn't great when we signed him). I'd be tempted to keep him on, however, as I believe he could be useful in quite a few positions: winger (either side), playing just behind a lone front man (a position Jarrett has been playing in lately i believe) and he can still pick a pass so if we need a distributer in midfield he would be better than what we have at the club permanently at the moment. As has been mentioned he could have some good impact coming off the bench against defenders that are tired. Yet, I get the impression he is our second highest paid player at the club (behind Gregan) and I can't see it being feasible to keep him on at this level of pay if he isn't going to play for 90 minutes week in week out (which seems impossible). Someone (i think it was IC) suggested a couple of weeks ago that he might be used in a coaching capacity as well next year which i think could be beneficial as he could help players like Taylor, Smalley and Davies improve their game. So in summary Andy Liddel is a good player but he isn't as good as he used to be but can contribute something and be a valued member of our squad. However, I think for us to keep him he would have to either take a pay cut or take up a coaching role or both Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stitch_KTF Posted April 10, 2008 Share Posted April 10, 2008 Lidds to stay for me. I think his quality, experience and know how are invaluable. His service is exceptional (something we have missed this season?) and he has never relied on pace, instead he relies on having more ability than most in this league. There is room for a player of his type in all teams....even the likes of United have Giggs who isnt what he was but still an important player in Fergusons eyes it seems (ok bad example maybe!). Pace isnt everything, as long as there is some somewhere else in the 11 man team! He cant be a top earner though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flytrap Posted April 10, 2008 Share Posted April 10, 2008 Liddell can take a good corner kick, which is a valueable asset when you look at our set pieces from this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neiladamsheadband Posted April 10, 2008 Share Posted April 10, 2008 liddell to stay for me still the only player in the team that can play wide and cross a ball - so in turn someone that can actuallly do his job, its a choice someon that can run at defenders and produce an end product of -00000000000000000000000000000000000000000 or someone that can spot forwards and deliver a cross of value Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest oa_exile Posted April 10, 2008 Share Posted April 10, 2008 Thanks for that andy - i'll get the handbags out too in future... Allan it was your one man needless rant what was annoying. Lidds has been a good servant to this Club , infact i don think i have ever come away from a game feeling short changed from his performances which more than I can say about quiet a few others over the last few seasons. IMO and looking at the posts a few others as well .........anyway put your handbag away and stop being such as wussy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boundaryblue80 Posted April 10, 2008 Share Posted April 10, 2008 Liddell can take a good corner kick, which is a valueable asset when you look at our set pieces from this season. Really? Did you miss last season then? I remember us suffering so badly for a corner kick taker even Simon Charlton had a go....and to be fair to him, he could put in a half decent ball. But was very irregularly used. Oh well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boundaryblue80 Posted April 10, 2008 Share Posted April 10, 2008 Don't think I need to say what I think about Lids as it's been well documented. And while I do agree with Bigfin a lot, I think he's gone slightly overboard in slating him. I wouldn't say he's as useless as has been been painted, even I concede I'd prefer to see him in the middle behind the front two and was crying out for this all pre-season (which I got) then fuming at the start of the season when Shez got in KK and totally abandoned it. And we went back to seeing the same useless Lids at the start of the season (prompting my calls for Taylor at RW or failing that, Smalley given a go.) Only injury led to that. If Lids is kept, it has to only be as back up on a far lesser wage than currently. And kept behind for use behind the front two. Shez won't keep him for that though and so I wouldn't want him to stay. But I think Shez will offer something and if Lids accepts, Shez will continue to stick him where he shouldn't (one of Shez's huge limitations for me). Finally, regarding title for crock of the season....surely that goes to Sloth better known as John Thompson? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoytonBlueLad Posted April 10, 2008 Share Posted April 10, 2008 Don't think I need to say what I think about Lids as it's been well documented. And while I do agree with Bigfin a lot, I think he's gone slightly overboard in slating him. I wouldn't say he's as useless as has been been painted, even I concede I'd prefer to see him in the middle behind the front two and was crying out for this all pre-season (which I got) then fuming at the start of the season when Shez got in KK and totally abandoned it. Of all the things that have happened this season that one still gets me more than any other. Work on it at every pre season game with new players, another new player arrives who doesn't fit that system. Now throw all that stuff out of the window. We'll do it this way instead now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bring Back Ronnie Moore Posted April 10, 2008 Share Posted April 10, 2008 (edited) I do think his legs have gone, but on reduced terms he can be an effective substitute (as show against Swansea). Wide players are the main place we need to strengthen because we definitely need another left and right sided midfielder, both first choice ones too. Edited April 10, 2008 by Bring Back Pukka Pies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevie_J Posted April 10, 2008 Share Posted April 10, 2008 Noticed Shez`s comments on Official Site re Gregan and Liddell " Andy and Sean can concentrate on getting their fitness back and looking to next season because they have both been out for a long time" Looks to me as if Liddell must be being given a new contract, otherwise why make such a comment regarding next season. I am not sitting on the fence on this one - I think Liddells legs have gone and whilst he can still put a decent ball into the box unfortunately he can`t get into position to do so anymore. I feel a nippy winger would be of more benefit - even Taylor or Smalley if they can learn to find a decent ball into the box regularly. The money Liddell is on/would probably want to stay could be better spent elsewhere in my opinion. Cue the instant backlash from the Liddell supporters!!!!!!!! KTF Lidds staying was/is inevitable, isn't it? Unless he decides otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_mighty_bosh Posted April 10, 2008 Share Posted April 10, 2008 Next season I think that we need to start with Taylor on the right ahead of Smalley and Lids. I don't rate Smalley as highly as Taylor and I think Smalley's development will be improved if he isn't used as frequently as he has been this year. I believe that Liddell's physical attributes (pace, agility and stamina especially) have dropped below the required level for L1 and although he is a very good crosser and penalty taker I think that Taylor's ability to beat his man along with his OK crossing ability is better to have. Liddell has definitely helped Eardley develop in the last couple of years but I now think Taylor and Eardley should be able to link up well down the flanks in their 3rd full year. But... I still think Liddell should be kept at the club either in a coaching or player/coach role on reduced wages. He seems to command a lot of respect from the rest of the squad going off the interviews I've heard and he could certainly help the younger players by sharing his wisdom. Also there is a chance that he could be utilised as a playmaker if he has enough support from other midfielders, just like the role Jarrett's been played in. I await Derek's Taylor bashing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluehobbit Posted April 10, 2008 Share Posted April 10, 2008 My problem is that if Liddell stays he will be first choice. He is one of sheridans fav players. Liddell for me is shot, he cant run anymore, cant take anyone on yes if we create a a bit of room he can whip a decent ball in but we carry too many passangers at the moment people who can do 1 thing, like gary mac in the team cause he can shoot - thats it. Kalala in the team cause he scraps for the ball. We cant carry liddell as well. if he is going to be in and around the squad then fine but if hes first choice week in week out and not performing ill be p****** off. Taylor should be on the right now where he can produce a ball, doesnt have to worry about getting his feet right he can just do whats natural to a right footed winger. I think it was Walsall where he was on the right hand side for a while and within in the space of a few minutes had 3 dangerous crosses in the box and had turned their fullback inside out. Lidds (not directly) has been a detriement to our youngsters not getting time in their correct positions. he was awful when fit this season and his injury was a mixed blessing. It left us short but has given smally some time on the pitch - and while he hasnt won everyone over he has had his moments where you can see some quality Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
futchers briefs Posted April 11, 2008 Share Posted April 11, 2008 Quality footballer whose quality on the ball has surely been missed this year - however (bb80 get your oxygen mask!) Lidds now after so many months out and 12 month older etc would probably be a squad member next year - as for 1st team regular - i would have to question (again) our activities in the transfer market if Lidds is 1st choice next season! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaskedOwl Posted April 11, 2008 Share Posted April 11, 2008 I cannot believe some people have said that he adds 'nothing' to the team. Astounding. Like others have said, id give him another season and use him as a squad player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest oa_exile Posted April 11, 2008 Share Posted April 11, 2008 (edited) Quality footballer whose quality on the ball has surely been missed this year - however (bb80 get your oxygen mask!) Lidds now after so many months out and 12 month older etc would probably be a squad member next year - as for 1st team regular - i would have to question (again) our activities in the transfer market if Lidds is 1st choice next season! I posted earlier on IF we get a decent left sided player in then I dont have a problem with Taylor on the right and using Lidds from the bench etc. Smalley , Lewis , etc , are not ready yet for 46+ games a season. I just feel we should keep him for another season , a good Club player with valuable experience for one more season. He is good for the kids and general moral of the squad. Edited April 11, 2008 by oa_exile Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafcprozac Posted April 11, 2008 Share Posted April 11, 2008 I posted earlier on IF we get a decent left sided player in then I dont have a problem with Taylor on the right and using Lidds from the bench etc. Smalley , Lewis , etc , are not ready yet for 46+ games a season. I just feel we should keep him for another season , a good Club player with valuable experience for one more season. He is good for the kids and general moral of the squad. Liddell should get another year on reduced terms imo, perhaps even a PAYP type deal. I agree he is the best footballer at the club but is no longer able to play wide right on a consistent basis. However, play him in the 'hole' and he could become the type of catylist that Beardsley was for the Toon during the twilight of his career. I also agree with the injury problems we've had this season although Lidds as been part of this) we certainly should not be looking at releasing what experience and quality we have. Re-assess Lidds' role as I believe Shez was doing before KK arrived and we may be onto a winner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigfinLatic Posted April 11, 2008 Share Posted April 11, 2008 Allan it was your one man needless rant what was annoying. .........anyway put your handbag away and stop being such as wussy Its only because your handbag is nicer than mine... and I got jealous... If you don't like him purely on the basis that you don't like him, then fair do's (that's much the same as the way that I judge Chris Taylor), but to try and wrap it up in these 'supposed facts' to support your argument but not apply the same rationale to your critique of Hughes is unfair on Lids I feel. Ok Ok! you got me - i just dont bloomin like him! His greasy hair glints in the sun, and my Mrs thinks he 'is the only good looking player who plays for oldham' ... I was having a bad day yesterday - and to say that I really dont like any Oldham player is a little too far... I appreciate what lids adds to the team, but as I have said, i dont think it is enough anymore. It also has a lot to do with how I believe the side should play... Like the lashers last season and swansea this... solid in the middle, tricky and fast on the wings, and with two decent, mobile strikers... with Andy liddell that cant be achieved... UNLESS - he is moved into the middle as a playmaker role... that I wouldnt mind, he can pick a pass, and has a great footballing brain - i appreciate he is a good footballer, and am positive he could fulfill the 'shez' role in these twilight days... plus he could take set-pieces... see.. i can be reasonable... however I just cant see how he fits as a winger.... but i'd like to see him try unlocking some defences from the centre... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaskedOwl Posted April 11, 2008 Share Posted April 11, 2008 Its only because your handbag is nicer than mine... and I got jealous... Ok Ok! you got me - i just dont bloomin like him! His greasy hair glints in the sun, and my Mrs thinks he 'is the only good looking player who plays for oldham' ... I was having a bad day yesterday - and to say that I really dont like any Oldham player is a little too far... I appreciate what lids adds to the team, but as I have said, i dont think it is enough anymore. It also has a lot to do with how I believe the side should play... Like the lashers last season and swansea this... solid in the middle, tricky and fast on the wings, and with two decent, mobile strikers... with Andy liddell that cant be achieved... UNLESS - he is moved into the middle as a playmaker role... that I wouldnt mind, he can pick a pass, and has a great footballing brain - i appreciate he is a good footballer, and am positive he could fulfill the 'shez' role in these twilight days... plus he could take set-pieces... see.. i can be reasonable... however I just cant see how he fits as a winger.... but i'd like to see him try unlocking some defences from the centre... Good post, well said. I can't stand Davis and i got slated for that but i think he has great potential and is a great prospect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senor_Coconut Posted April 11, 2008 Share Posted April 11, 2008 Get rid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon Posted April 11, 2008 Share Posted April 11, 2008 That's harsh. BigFin isn't that bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senor_Coconut Posted April 11, 2008 Share Posted April 11, 2008 He bloody is. Liddell can sod off too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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