OldhamSheridan Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 In th UK I do, Monarchs and Claymores are evidence of that. If there is going to be a European side, surely it must be in Germany? NFL Europa saw some success with Galaxy with themselves being the only side to make it from start to finish... I'd be sticking with the 17th game idea (losing two of the pre-season backup friendlies in the process). See how that fares once the novelty has worn off. Get about four games at Wembley, four in Germany, four in Mexico and four in the Orient and see how it goes. I wouldn't bet on that selling out here after a few seasons, but you could sell four game season tickets for those serious about it and get a pretty good idea of how things are going off that. If that all cocks up you can just reduce the number of games abroad and start playing games at non-NFL American cities. Germany should be way ahead of here in terms of getting a franchise after NFL Europe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 (edited) They reckon that London may have a franchise within 10 years. Does anyone else think it will be a flop? If it was actually part of the NFL then no...I don't think it will be a flop... Only thing that has been proven is that 80,000 people will travel to London for a game and a British / European league could never sustain itself beyond a armature level... I think there is scope for a British (European) team... I doubt it will be good for the NFL though... How would we feel if the Premiership started to contain American sides? Will it actually happen... No I don't think so... Edited February 3, 2009 by oafc0000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 In th UK I do, Monarchs and Claymores are evidence of that. That was very different.... They where not part of the NFL... If there is going to be a European side, surely it must be in Germany? The fact that the European international games are being played in the UK and not Germany would suggest otherwise.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 That was very different.... They where not part of the NFL... The fact that the European international games are being played in the UK and not Germany would suggest otherwise.... I suppose a NFL sell out would be a sell out wherever it may be. US Forces in Germany helped the locals get into the games - NFLE was a minor success for German sides, I just think the passion for the game was greater in Frankfurt and Hamburg than it was in London at the time - that's something to consider... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackey Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 The problem with a London based NFL side is that you'd need to sell out an 80,000 seat stadium for 8 (or even 10) games. For the time being you've got people in the north willing to get on a bus/train down to London because it's a special game, but who here would be willing to put in the time and effort that the OASIS lads do on a bi-weekly basis for a team which would, lets be realistic, be getting it's ass handed to it week in week out? All that would happen is that Dave would go for the Giants games, Rummy for the Saints and so on. Attendence would fall off over the year or two and it'd be gone. The option would be to move the team around. So they play; 2x London 2x Manchester 2x Glascow 2x Newcastle/east coast But then you have the problem of how many people in these areas will be wanting to see it and will the gits in Old Trafford be willing to let their beloved pitch have the grass ripped off it? More trouble than it will ever be worth IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 I don't think you could fill a 80,000 seater every week... 40,000....that would be possible I feel... I think you make a good point about supporting teams already... Im a Giants fan... End of story really.. I certainly wouldnt support anything with "london" in it.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guernica Posted February 3, 2009 Author Share Posted February 3, 2009 And I wonder how many college players would fancy moving over to England come draft time.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_ragg1984 Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 And I wonder how many college players would fancy moving over to England come draft time.. Yeah good point. And for interest to be sustained the team would have to be competitive after a few years, AND have homegrown talent. The structure that is in place would mean that we wouldn't have enough players homegrown players who are good enough (we would be lucky to get one). It would also need its own stadium, built for the NFL...you couldn't play 8 games at Wembley. A new stadium would be a huge financial risk for any backer when you consider that the whole thing might not be a success. The point about people already supporting teams is a good one. I wouldn't switch from the Giants, though I would want them to do well. When the Giants come to town I'd want the Giants to win...every game could end up like that. What division would they play in? Would they be an expansion franchise or a relocation? I also think the time difference wouldn't work. A couple of games a season overseas is ok, but if your having a team travel back and forth from America, and 8 teams coming over here, it would be a logistical nightmare. If the UK team was away on the West coast, the time difference is 9 hours. The next week they are back in London, then that is a massive disadvantage having to keep adjusting the body clock. They would be better spending any money like this on an infrastructure to make the league in the UK a higher standard, and make it possible that players in the UK can one day be good enough to transfer over to the NFL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudemedic Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 NFL franchise in London won't work, nor would it work in Frankfurt or whereever else in Germany NFL europe is a success. I'm a fairly big NFL fan (stayed up all night watching the game- as it got to the point that I didn't want to go to sleep it was that good a game) but I'm not likely ever to go to a London game because its in London on a Sunday when I have work/uni on the Monday and tickets sell out months beforehand when due to intracies of medicine I don't know what I'm doing in Autumn until August so can't say can I have this day off here etc. Getting back North from London on a sunday is a pain in the and its one of my big big peeves is that public transport doesn't run late enough on a sunday from London to cater for events in London on a sunday, or the likes of the Olympics or England internationals during the week. I'd go to a game in Glasgow or more likely Edinburgh, and Manchester on a Sunday or quite a few place on a Saturday but Sundays are and will be for a few years. I think that OK this game has sold out, and the other two sold out, but eventually the games in Wembley (if they ran for long enough) won't sell out because those that are willing/able to make the trip will have done so and people won't keep making the trip (including those from other nations). An NFL team based in Europe (as a whole not just one city) might work but I doubt it as the same problem happens, I like how the NFL is trying the game abroad idea but I think that is where it should stay as one game or possibly a round of games in different locations. If the NFL is ever to have a franchise outside mainland US then my money would be on somewhere in Canada or Hawaii being the first choice. However if London did get a Franchise then I'd probably end up going as I wouldn't need the months in advance notice like I do at the mo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackey Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 If the NFL is ever to have a franchise outside mainland US then my money would be on somewhere in Canada or Hawaii being the first choice. They've been talking about one in Toronto since time began! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 Well, you guys did have NFL Europe/a. Granted it was mostly the "reserves" of the NFL teams, it was still American football. But the NFL expanding outside of North America is just ... a bad idea. What if the Seahawks had to play a game in London? That's an 8 hour difference! And a team in Hawaii would be almost the same deal, as it is 4 hours behind the West coast. Plus, I've spoken to plenty that live in the UK, and most of 'em have no interest in the NFL until the Super Bowl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsslatic Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 Funny how everyone loves the idea of an NFL game over here every year...but when the idea of PL games being played abroad is put out there, people are up in arms. Not sure about the NFL, but a lot of NHL fans unhappy that the season has opened in Europe for the last couple of years. Rightfully so... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudemedic Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 Funny how everyone loves the idea of an NFL game over here every year...but when the idea of PL games being played abroad is put out there, people are up in arms. Not sure about the NFL, but a lot of NHL fans unhappy that the season has opened in Europe for the last couple of years. Rightfully so... I'm not up in arms about greedy league games being played abroad frankly if they want to go to Dubai to play a game then they can off and leave proper football fans to watch their team live, and hopefully some Man U etc. 'fans' might actually watch a lower league team instead. For the past few years MLB has opened their season in Japan and I'm not sure the fans like it. But since the Giants won the first Wembley game and then the Superbowl the NFL fans quite like the UK game (as they see it being a little bit lucky) but if I was a fan of the team playing at 'home' at Wembley I'd be a bit miffed as it would mean one less home game/year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsslatic Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 I'm not up in arms about greedy league games being played abroad frankly if they want to go to Dubai to play a game then they can off and leave proper football fans to watch their team live, and hopefully some Man U etc. 'fans' might actually watch a lower league team instead. For the past few years MLB has opened their season in Japan and I'm not sure the fans like it. But since the Giants won the first Wembley game and then the Superbowl the NFL fans quite like the UK game (as they see it being a little bit lucky) but if I was a fan of the team playing at 'home' at Wembley I'd be a bit miffed as it would mean one less home game/year. But the PL fans who are against the game being played abroad are largely those who watch the games live in the first place. Those who watch their team on the telly couldn't give a monkeys where the game is held as long as it's on Sky. Even if you were to make such a rash generalisation...does that mean that sides who have success and are promoted from the Championship are no longer 'proper football fans' and shouldn't be able to watch their team live? I know a few United fans who go home and away...why should they go and watch a lower league team? Those that go week in week out have every right to watch their side...those that should go watch a lower league team are those that sit on their arse at home...well they're hardly going to think...'oh, United are in Dubai this week...I could watch it on TV or I could go see Oldham'. And clearly that Superbowl idea has been well and truly rubbished now anyway! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 the NFL fans quite like the UK game No they dont... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldhamSheridan Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 No they dont... ...and this is why they are looking more realistically at the 17th game proposals, which I assume will go ahead in the near future. Each team remains having 8 home games as there is no home team. They play less as they lose the two of the pre-season pantomimes currently taking place. 16 games around the World should fare alot better than 8 in one place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 ...and this is why they are looking more realistically at the 17th game proposals, which I assume will go ahead in the near future. Each team remains having 8 home games as there is no home team. They play less as they lose the two of the pre-season pantomimes currently taking place. 16 games around the World should fare alot better than 8 in one place. I reckon they should keep it as it is. Even the Wembley game isn't very well thought of in the States. The Saints fans were livid about it this season, the season ticket holders have only just got their stadium back after hurricane Katrina and the NFL were taking a home game off them so soon? If Saints had lost at Wembley back in October there would've been hell to pay in New Orleans... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudemedic Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 But the PL fans who are against the game being played abroad are largely those who watch the games live in the first place. Those who watch their team on the telly couldn't give a monkeys where the game is held as long as it's on Sky. Even if you were to make such a rash generalisation...does that mean that sides who have success and are promoted from the Championship are no longer 'proper football fans' and shouldn't be able to watch their team live? I know a few United fans who go home and away...why should they go and watch a lower league team? Those that go week in week out have every right to watch their side...those that should go watch a lower league team are those that sit on their arse at home...well they're hardly going to think...'oh, United are in Dubai this week...I could watch it on TV or I could go see Oldham'. And clearly that Superbowl idea has been well and truly rubbished now anyway! So all those people up in arms about the PL game abroad, really are just those fans that go watch their team regularly. The majority of fans of teams in the top portion of the Premier League don't watch their team live regularly because the grounds 'sell-out.' I'm not saying those that watch Man U regularly should watch Oldham if Man U played a game abroad. What I am saying is that an awful lot of football fans would happily have their team play abroad as it would mean they were in the Premiership. If Man United (and their fans) want success that badly then they have to have the downsides of the success if that means they have to play abroad then sobeit and they should stop moaning about it. I would quite happily swap Oldham playing abroad for Man united's league position (or even West Brom's) and I know not everyone would agree with me on that but its my view. I really hate it when you have Premier League fans moaning about this or that which doesn't happen outside the Premiership (like no 3pm on a saturday kick-offs for ages) as it shows no respect for those fans of teams further down the league ladder. I've had this debate in a pub before and if Man United got relegated then I still think they could sell out OT but it would be a different group of people there. Genuine football fans support their team through thick and thin and I would feel sorry for those fans if their team had to play abroad but a lot of football fans that go to games in the Premiership only go because their team is in the Premiership/doing well in the Premiership. For example, when Oldham beat Chelsea at Stamford Bridge the Chelsea supporters didn't sell out the home sections but I bet they would now. Plus, Newcastle when they were languishing in Div 1 (what is now the Championship) were getting gates around the 15,000 mark but now they are in the Premiership they get 52,000 and most of them convieniently forget the times when the club could barely give the tickets away. As for the NFL game in London, until both teams in it have bad years or suddenly start losing all the games after then I still think the teams (although not necessarily the fans) will want to play in it enough for it to keep going. OK the Saints didn't win the superbowl but they did win the game (I'd take Oldham playing a home game in London if it meant 3 points), the Chargers lost (but the travel difference wasn't that much for them) but they went on a winning run straight after (or close) which saw them reach the playoffs. In the States unless the game is between teams close enough to drive then away fans would have to take a flight to get there anyway so the 'away' team in the London game probably like the idea- not so much of a disadvantage being 'away' when the other team ain't at home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_ragg1984 Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 When the NFL said that the teams "like" the London game, I think they were meaning because they see it as a lucky game to play in. This season, although the Chargers lost, they went on to make the Playoffs, when they really shouldn't have. The Giants went on to win the SB. They said they liked it because it was the closest thing they have (build up wise) to the Superbowl. When the Giants got to the Superbowl, they felt like they were prepared for all the build up that surrounds the game because they had already experienced the London game. Obviously, the fans of the home teams are not going to like the games, but, Like the PL, the NFL only cares about money and not the fans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nava Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 I can't see it happening to be honest there is too much risk involved with it. We can get 80000 to one game but not that many people would go to it 8 times a season especially at the prices they are. I think 40000 would be about the average at best with 1 or 2 games which could get more. As for the players wanting to come over here it depends. If someone offers a £40 million contract i think most people would play anywhere so i wouldn't be so sure that would be an issue with the bigger stars maybe the reserve players would'nt be so keen but unless it happens we will never know. I'm sure they could get around the travelling and time difference maybe by playing 4 games at home and 4 away so there is not as much travelling involved. unless a teams relocates anytime soon then i cant see them expanding at the moment. they seem happy enough with current international series for the time being. Oh and i agree i wouldn't support any team with the name London in it. lets put it in the centre of the country for a change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 lets put it in the centre of the country for a change. Runcorn?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nava Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 Runcorn?! Why not? it would be nice instead of London getting everything. We all know where it would go though if it ever happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 Why not? it would be nice instead of London getting everything. We all know where it would go though if it ever happens. But Runcorn's like Beirut! Think of it as a pilgrimage like the Challenge Cup Final... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nava Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 But Runcorn's like Beirut! Think of it as a pilgrimage like the Challenge Cup Final... some would say that most of London isn't much better Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 (edited) ...and this is why they are looking more realistically at the 17th game proposals, which I assume will go ahead in the near future. Each team remains having 8 home games as there is no home team. They play less as they lose the two of the pre-season pantomimes currently taking place. 16 games around the World should fare alot better than 8 in one place. wtf ?? You think thats going to make the yank fans happy ?? The fans in america want more games in america and not shipping them out of the country.... I was happy as larry when it was annouced it was the Giants coming over but I can totally undersatnd the majority of Giants being angry. Leave NFL in america where it belongs. If its not broke dont fix it.... I hate the idea of premiership teams going abroad... Both proposals start to erode what the sports are all about in my opinion... Edited February 8, 2009 by oafc0000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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