northern&proud Posted September 9, 2008 Share Posted September 9, 2008 (edited) but dont you understand we also contibuted to footballs downfall by voting for the premier league in the first plasce.. like has been said what if we had stayed in it another 4 or 5 years,we would be no better than them would we??? so if someone did come in and buy us and do what you said,but the crowds increased by 75% would it have been the right or the wrong decision. we all basically agree in essance that what has happened is out of order,and shouldnt have been allowed,but i was replying to the fact the crowd trouble could arise again this saturday by people hurling abuse over the wall at the away fans,when essentially they havent done anything wrong. By the way mate, we still in same stand as last time Edited September 9, 2008 by northern&proud Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankly Mr Shankly Posted September 9, 2008 Share Posted September 9, 2008 but dont you understand we also contibuted to footballs downfall by voting for the premier league in the first plasce.. Believe me, there are so many things wish I wish hadn't happened in football. That's one of them. But that isn't really what my arguement is about. The Premiershíte is purely and simply about ploughing more and more money into an elitist cliqué, which none of them want anyone else to be a part of. The National side is ruined because of it, and practically everyone outside Division 2 is ruined because of it. Things like McDongs was a precident. It'd never really happened before, well not to a highly ranked team anyway. It was different. When that happened (and the people of 'that place' went along and made it work as 'a business model') it meant it finally pushed the door open for this to happen again. And it will. But should we really let that happen? Should we just stand by and let the Winklemans of this world to do as they please? It seems people are willing to. This is where the Franchise's "customers" come into it for me. By going along, lapping it all up it made it a viable business model. Because of this the levvee is broken and it'll happen again. Had they not trotted along there with glee, franchise football in Britain wouldn't have happened and it'd have been a ruined mockery like the playing Premiership games abroad notion. So yes, the fans do have some amount of accountability, perhaps not as much as the devil himself but certainly as an acomplice to the crime. Guilty as charged yer 'onour. Bigfin - What the TTA are trying to build is something completely different. They're looking to tap into a market, yes, but even after the work is complete and the new shiny stadium is there (well, 3 stands and a tarted up RRE) the club will still be recognisable to you and I. Sure, being the old nostalgist that I am, it won't be 'right' but I'll live with that I'd imagine because the heart will still be there (a bit like Robocop). No, I won't go sloping off to the Citeh's, Redsox or even Bury's because 30 years of watching the Blues will always keep me going watching. Unless it's Workington... please, not Workington. I believe TTA understand the rich tapestry that is football anyway so I can rest easily on that point. I guess if people didn't pass off the McDons as "Just another thing that is happening to football" and diluting it like that then we wouldn't be going down this path. But *sigh*, we are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lordy Posted September 9, 2008 Share Posted September 9, 2008 Like what has already been mentioned if these people were so desperate for a football team they should have gone watchin MK City or followed a local non league team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prendy_1984 Posted September 9, 2008 Share Posted September 9, 2008 MK Dons are simply wrong and shouldn't be in the league. How people are making excuses for them is beyond me. No adults should be able to support them, if they do they can't really be considered a football fan. As for kids its slightly different, but why are parents taking their children to watch them. As has been said on numerous occassions above there are plenty of other league teams within a reasonable distance. If the MK Dons do succeed it may well become a model for other clubs to follow and then it may well have something to do with us. I cant believe the attitude that it doesn't hurt us that some people have on here. As for comparing a potential latics move to Ashton to Wimbledon having their club taken off them, moved 80 miles, changing their badge and their name to MK Dons is absolutelty ridiculous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_ragg1984 Posted September 9, 2008 Share Posted September 9, 2008 Basically, I agree with pretty much everything FMS has said on the MK Dons subject- nail on head. If anyone puts themselves in the position of the Wimbledon fans for just one second, I dont see how anyone could be blase about the subject. It is the biggest injustice in English football, and has set a very dangerous precedent. Any one who even sets foot in their stadium as a paying spectator is supporting it too. I go to quite a lot of away games. but MK Dons away is one which I will never ever go to as a matter of principle. No matter what the circumstances, and Id hope that all football fans would feel the same way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted September 9, 2008 Share Posted September 9, 2008 but dont you understand we also contibuted to footballs downfall by voting for the premier league in the first plasce.. like has been said what if we had stayed in it another 4 or 5 years,we would be no better than them would we??? Yes we would Ed. We got into that League in the first place due to the patience of the Club in sticking with Frizzell and then Royle through good times and bad, the loyalty of the fans who kept the faith throughout the darkest days, players who gave it their all for the Club, countless sponsors and backers who put their hand in their pocket because they wanted to help out far more than because they thought it would help their own finances, and much else besides. We were there by right, things came together and we got enough points, and we got enough the next two seasons as well. If we'd stayed up there, we would have higher prices, arrange out fixtures to suit Sky when we were playing the big boys, we'd be flirting with dodgy foreign owners, but we would still DESERVE to be there - because of the number of points we got in the League. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_mighty_bosh Posted September 9, 2008 Share Posted September 9, 2008 (edited) it did nearly happen to us didnt it,if the tta's hadnt come in where might we be now,ashton droylsden duckinfield middleton or miles away. I'm fairly certain that our problems weren't to do with where we're based and were to do with M**re overspending and bankrupting us. you have to face facts that football has changed dramatically since the invention of the premier league(which we voted for by the way) Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't we the only team who voted against the invention of the Premiership? I can understand people saying that the kids shouldn't be blamed for following their local team and not knowing the history, but IMO the whole farce stems from the move to MK therefore I cannot have any respect for anyone with any affiliation to the franchise. This is only a football matter though and it doesn't warrant violence towards their fans. Edited September 9, 2008 by the_mighty_bosh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EASTLEY Posted September 9, 2008 Share Posted September 9, 2008 Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't we the only team who voted against the invention of the Premiership? Actually ourselves and Swindon voted against it first off and then when were threatened with demotion changed our vote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted September 9, 2008 Share Posted September 9, 2008 Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't we the only team who voted against the invention of the Premiership? No, we were for it. Incidentally, I don't know where this fear of violence against visiting Dongs has come from. I just don't respect their choice of club or them as football supporters, I doubt they are going to attract our terrifying firm to try and do them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
footy68 Posted September 9, 2008 Share Posted September 9, 2008 I think people are just thinking about our Mongs who were trying the 'Millwall' tactics against Morecambe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted September 9, 2008 Share Posted September 9, 2008 I think people are just thinking about our Mongs who were trying the 'Millwall' tactics against Morecambe. Aye, but they'd do it against anyone, so it's hardly a reason not to slag them off on here! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigfinLatic Posted September 9, 2008 Share Posted September 9, 2008 (edited) Bigfin - What the TTA are trying to build is something completely different. They're looking to tap into a market, yes, but even after the work is complete and the new shiny stadium is there (well, 3 stands and a tarted up RRE) the club will still be recognisable to you and I. Sure, being the old nostalgist that I am, it won't be 'right' but I'll live with that I'd imagine because the heart will still be there (a bit like Robocop). No, I won't go sloping off to the Citeh's, Redsox or even Bury's because 30 years of watching the Blues will always keep me going watching. Unless it's Workington... please, not Workington. I believe TTA understand the rich tapestry that is football anyway so I can rest easily on that point. I guess if people didn't pass off the McDons as "Just another thing that is happening to football" and diluting it like that then we wouldn't be going down this path. But *sigh*, we are. One of the best analogies on here - ever! I think you miss my opint slightly, I didnt say if we suddenly stopped existing we would then decide who we support, I meant if we had never existed (like there wasnt a team in MK) we probably wouldnt be wigan or hudders fans... we would probably be amongst the massed ranks of armchair reds or blues... I might be in the minority, and probably ill informed on the subject, but as far as I know Wimbledon were sailing down crap creek fast, with a council that didnt support them, an unsustainable club, and a fan base that is less than ours, so given he option of going bankrupt and dissapearing totally, or reinventing 60 miles up the road, then I would have definitely chosen the latter... ... and yes, that could have happened to us, so if Oldham would have become Lancaster Athletic, or Buxton Owls or whatever, I think I would have still gone on supporting them, IF that was the only way we could have survived... but hey, i've got used to the fact that the team I support isnt round the corner from me, so I have no real identity with the place they play anymore.... I think the Franchise concept gets a lot worse if we ever see a large, succesful club being relocated - however, the big problem with this is that we dont really have any other large areas of population that doesnt have a team, unlike America where there are laods of places teams can move, and loads of places who are constantly getting expansion teams... For me, MK is a once and once only thing, I may be wrong, but I view it as a team that was going down the crapper that had to move to reinvent themselves, there are lots of examples of Wimbledon fans who still support them, for me, good luck to Wimbledon FC and hope they have the best of luck in building from the bottom, but I would rather have 10,000 MK fans in MK than 10,000 armchair Manyoo fans in MK and 2000 non league Wimbledon fans in wimbledon (which is exactly what we have now anyway) Edited September 9, 2008 by BigfinLatic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slurms mckenzie Posted September 9, 2008 Share Posted September 9, 2008 (edited) Basically, I agree with pretty much everything FMS has said on the MK Dons subject- nail on head. If anyone puts themselves in the position of the Wimbledon fans for just one second, I dont see how anyone could be blase about the subject. It is the biggest injustice in English football, and has set a very dangerous precedent. Any one who even sets foot in their stadium as a paying spectator is supporting it too. I go to quite a lot of away games. but MK Dons away is one which I will never ever go to as a matter of principle. No matter what the circumstances, and Id hope that all football fans would feel the same way. I agree with you and FMS. To summarise my point of view: F--- MK Dongs F--- Winkleman Edited September 9, 2008 by slurms mckenzie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted September 9, 2008 Share Posted September 9, 2008 but as far as I know Wimbledon were sailing down crap creek fast, with a council that didnt support them, an unsustainable club, and a fan base that is less than ours, so given he option of going bankrupt and dissapearing totally, or reinventing 60 miles up the road, then I would have definitely chosen the latter... They couldn't sustain their freakish rise to the Premiership, they could have just got relegated several divisions and built a crap small ground somewhere. Leeds and Man City hjave had to survive the fall out of the top flight, I'm sure Merton Athletic could have swallowed the pill there are lots of examples of Wimbledon fans who still support them Mr Tulsehill counted the "Home" crowd at half time in one of Wimbledon's last games (vs Forest at Selhurst). It was in two figures, and that was including a coachload of carpetbaggers who they had brought down from MK in anticipation. Wimbledon supporters who follow them are like a husband who still does as his wife tells him even though he comes home to find her doing the rounds with half the town every time he gets in from a day's work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigfinLatic Posted September 9, 2008 Share Posted September 9, 2008 They couldn't sustain their freakish rise to the Premiership, they could have just got relegated several divisions and built a crap small ground somewhere. Leeds and Man City hjave had to survive the fall out of the top flight, I'm sure Merton Athletic could have swallowed the pill Is that not what has happened anyway? Surely if they had just ended up in 'freefall' through the divisions they would have just ended up doing a Luton, Rovrum etc X10 and been bankrupt before you said 'perhaps you should have relocated?" Yet now you get 1500/2000 people going to watch Wimbledon FC, as they go up through the divisions starting afresh... trust me, before long both FC United and Wimbledon will be in league football - and then you will get just as many people moaning about that... I just dont see the logic in seeing a club freefall and watching fans bleed out organically, whilst they gradually go bankrupt - start afresh, and hey they have.... Wimbledon was fooooked, that aint the new MK Fans fault... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted September 9, 2008 Share Posted September 9, 2008 I just dont see the logic in seeing a club freefall and watching fans bleed out organically, whilst they gradually go bankrupt - start afresh, and hey they have.... Wimbledon was fooooked, that aint the new MK Fans fault... Then I suppose you are appalled that the League allowed Leeds to be relegated and didn't bend the rules (further) to allow them to get Back to Where They Belong? It would have increased attendances in the Championship this season. Oh hang on, no, they got relegated, twice, and someone else who did well in a lower league eraned the chance to replace them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted September 9, 2008 Share Posted September 9, 2008 That maybe so but they are here now .......... don't understand a comments about 'what stick' they are going to sing to the MK fans, it's pathetic. No doubt the club are in for a rough time again in the RRE and for what. To be honest I don't care for the history of MK Dons .. all I'm bothered about is my team. Mark, I didn't say I was going to sing anything at them - I don't recognise them as a legitimate club worthy of a normal opinion. They are fake and plastic and should have begun where AFC Wimbledon have league wise. In my opinion, the club is an ABSOLUTE DISGRACE - I have not commented about their fans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EASTLEY Posted September 9, 2008 Share Posted September 9, 2008 No, we were for it. Incidentally, I don't know where this fear of violence against visiting Dongs has come from. I just don't respect their choice of club or them as football supporters, I doubt they are going to attract our terrifying firm to try and do them. Not so sure you have this bit right LL? The vindication that swayed those against it was that the England team would benefit after the reduction to 18 clubs as they were expected to progress further in the cup competitions and Europe. This was in the days before rotation, pre-season world tours and the champions league Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigfinLatic Posted September 9, 2008 Share Posted September 9, 2008 Then I suppose you are appalled that the League allowed Leeds to be relegated and didn't bend the rules (further) to allow them to get Back to Where They Belong? It would have increased attendances in the Championship this season. Oh hang on, no, they got relegated, twice, and someone else who did well in a lower league eraned the chance to replace them. Now theres an arguement bent about three times over and thrown back in a way no-one could possibly argue with....!! As i say - i'm not the most informed on the old football politics that saw the MK Dongs come into being, who got promoted instead of Wimbledon? Or was that the season they just cut the teams in the Prem, or whatever? Who knows.... we have had fans on here saying that they wanted to go non-league and start from the bottom... anyway, not informed enough to comment on that.... The crux of my arguement is that Wimbledon were going out of existance anyway (and probably the way things were heading if they were about now they would be starting the seaosn on about -200 points), and it aint the MK Fans fault, nor is the fact they support the team plonked on their doorstep... and with that, i'm throwing myself overboard and getting out of here whilst I still have a life raft.... .... looking forward to the "I'm not going to Stadium MK thread" in a few months.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsslatic Posted September 9, 2008 Share Posted September 9, 2008 Basically, I agree with pretty much everything FMS has said on the MK Dons subject- nail on head. If anyone puts themselves in the position of the Wimbledon fans for just one second, I dont see how anyone could be blase about the subject. It is the biggest injustice in English football, and has set a very dangerous precedent. Any one who even sets foot in their stadium as a paying spectator is supporting it too. I go to quite a lot of away games. but MK Dons away is one which I will never ever go to as a matter of principle. No matter what the circumstances, and Id hope that all football fans would feel the same way. I hate the concept of, and thus indirectly MKD, franchise football...but wherever Latics play I will do my utmost to watch them so I will be there in March, though I'll pay no extra money than the cost of my ticket. Whatever you say about Winkelman, the boys always need our support and I will be there cheering them on... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
real Posted September 9, 2008 Share Posted September 9, 2008 For those who say that the franchise fans cannot be blamed, winkelman stole the jewels from someone else's house and took them to MK where he invited others to join him in parading around with the stolen adornments Those that did are guitly of receiving stolen goods. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted September 9, 2008 Share Posted September 9, 2008 Now theres an arguement bent about three times over and thrown back in a way no-one could possibly argue with....!! Have you been spying on my tactical notes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted September 9, 2008 Share Posted September 9, 2008 Apparently, the way that Winkleman has built his fan base is by giving away free Kids tickets. They then whinge and moan at Mum and Dad and one of them has to take them to the Football. It is local, a nice stadium and a family atmosphere. People think "well, that wasn't too bad" and then start going more often. Bought somone else's club, bought the support of the kids, bought the support of the parents" - Job done. Meanwhile, AFC Wimbledon struggle through the leagues like everyone else. As far as the comments about whay it has to do with us - we support a football team in the football league, so the fact that MKDons even exists dilutes the very thing we play for. It is like saying, I am not going to vote, because it won't make any difference - yet people fought to get the right to vote in the first place. I seriously hope that they get relegated and become the first league club to finally go to the wall - now that would be a sweet irony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spadam Posted September 9, 2008 Share Posted September 9, 2008 They are creating history at the moment. I know they had taken Wimbledon's place but its one of those things. Just thought l would say if these happened to us l would support AFC Oldham every time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oafc88 Posted September 9, 2008 Share Posted September 9, 2008 (edited) My view is that the most worrying thing about this is that with more and more people starting to accept what happened as just "thats life" this will most likely encourage others to do the same to similar teams, which cannot be allowed to happen and is possibly the biggest fear here and so why theres a problem with m***s (anyone hear about the possibility of a team being taken over and being renamed harchester united after the tv show??) Im sorry but i disagree with this idea that the wimbledon fans and club, like them or not, had it coming to them in terms of going bust from there own mismanagement/lack of help from local council and so cant be unhappy with what there is now, and seeing as they were on there last legs, lets go and give the club to a town that hasnt got a team! why the hell should this town over any other be given a football league team for the pure fact that they have never had league football. tough :censored:e i say!! for me a club should be able to fight for its survival or go bust yet this somehow meant they deserved to be stripped of its soul and shipped off miles away for a toy town, and rather than work for a league club from the bottom up decided to steal in on another clubs misfortune. Just goes to show the nature of Britain today when nobody is willing to work for anything anymore. As for the m***s fans themselves, im sure there really nice folk and i wouldnt wish any harm on them but i find them really difficult to understand and justify themselves for allowing this to happen and actually taking part in it by supporting the team!! ahh thats feels better lol Edited September 9, 2008 by Oafc88 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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