North/South Divide

[nzlatic]

I mentioned this on the end of another thread but thought it'd be interesting to give it it's own topic to hear opinion on it... Having a League 1 North and South.

 

We've had Bristol Rovers home and away midweek and now we're off to Cheltenham. There are plenty of other examples of lengthy trips throughout the lower leagues and in this day and age, with plenty of clubs are struggling moneywise, would this be a way of reducing costs and generating bigger crowds and more money?

 

So is there any merit in returning to a similar set up to that of years ago?

 

Another suggestion I'd put out there is a percentage of the premier league money being given out in grants to lower league clubs solely for set up and/or running of youth academies.

 

Before anyone asks I am not a plant from the FL looking to gauge opinion and I definitely do live in NZ! I'm happy to provide a picture of me playing rugby and eating a kiwi (the fruit that is, not the endangered flightless national bird).

[IsleOfWightBlue]

No thanks I live Isle of Wight and a North South devide would be useless for me - You live NZ so it don't matter to you

 

If they wanted to do a West/East devide then ok I Would have to travel a fair bit still but at least Id get some near games in

[Hometownclub]

I mentioned this on the end of another thread but thought it'd be interesting to give it it's own topic to hear opinion on it... Having a League 1 North and South.

 

We've had Bristol Rovers home and away midweek and now we're off to Cheltenham. There are plenty of other examples of lengthy trips throughout the lower leagues and in this day and age, with plenty of clubs are struggling moneywise, would this be a way of reducing costs and generating bigger crowds and more money?

 

So is there any merit in returning to a similar set up to that of years ago?

 

Another suggestion I'd put out there is a percentage of the premier league money being given out in grants to lower league clubs solely for set up and/or running of youth academies.

 

Before anyone asks I am not a plant from the FL looking to gauge opinion and I definitely do live in NZ! I'm happy to provide a picture of me playing rugby and eating a kiwi (the fruit that is, not the endangered flightless national bird).

I think there is definately some merit in your suggestion of a return to Div 3 North and South as it used to be.

 

Closer fixtures would likely lead to bigger crowds and avoid the likes of Orient coming to Latics and bringing about 70 fans with them even on a Saturday.

 

 

[0afc68]

said it for years, this is the only way forward..

[jimsleftfoot]

said it for years, this is the only way forward..

 

I think it would be a very good idea and could help improve attendences and local rivalries (not too mention eco-friendly).

[ghostofcecere]

Sadly I think it's the way we are heading at the moment; I can't see any other way to sustain professional in 5 divisions (don't forget, most conference clubs are now full time). I think it's a backwards step and it would get pretty boring as we have seen for the last 12 seasons playing largely the same clubs year after year.

 

The other option is the Football League getting a bit smarter and arranging all the long trip fixtures on a Saturday at least.

[LaticsPete]

I think it's the way forward too. There could be more disparities in the quality of teams in each division of course with some clubs becoming real whipping boys , more so than at present. And there'd need to be at least two up from each division, so would the Championship teams agree to four down?

The Fa Cup could still be national at every round so the possibility of "taking it to the southerners" wouldn't be lost completely.

[24hoursfromtulsehill]

I think it's the way forward too. There could be more disparities in the quality of teams in each division of course with some clubs becoming real whipping boys , more so than at present. And there'd need to be at least two up from each division, so would the Championship teams agree to four down?

The Fa Cup could still be national at every round so the possibility of "taking it to the southerners" wouldn't be lost completely.

 

Suppose one team from each division goes up automatically, and one from each division through play-offs. The losing play-off finalist from the northern division might be miles better than the team that goes up through the southern division, which makes things a bit unfair on them. Can't see it happening.

[oafc1955]

I mentioned this on the end of another thread but thought it'd be interesting to give it it's own topic to hear opinion on it... Having a League 1 North and South.

 

We've had Bristol Rovers home and away midweek and now we're off to Cheltenham. There are plenty of other examples of lengthy trips throughout the lower leagues and in this day and age, with plenty of clubs are struggling moneywise, would this be a way of reducing costs and generating bigger crowds and more money?

 

So is there any merit in returning to a similar set up to that of years ago?

 

Another suggestion I'd put out there is a percentage of the premier league money being given out in grants to lower league clubs solely for set up and/or running of youth academies.

 

Before anyone asks I am not a plant from the FL looking to gauge opinion and I definitely do live in NZ! I'm happy to provide a picture of me playing rugby and eating a kiwi (the fruit that is, not the endangered flightless national bird).

 

I brought this up a year or so ago and got shot down by the traditionalists.....In this climate, change is vital!! It is the only way forward and would cut costs and improve crowds and interest immediately. It seems to work OK with the Blue Square and Conference so why not in Div 1 and 2.

 

Here's what the league could look like......6 clubs reachable within 1/2 hour and another 7 within 1 hour. The farthest we would have to travel would be north to Carlisle and south to Walsall. I reckon it could put at least 15/20% increase on attendances and reduce overnight stays and travel costs by a huge amount!!

 

OLDHAM A

GRIMSBY T

ACCRINGTON S

WALSALL

HARTLEPOOL U

CARLISLE U

ROCHDALE

BURY

STOCKPORT C

CREWE A

HUDDERSFIELD T

LEEDS U

TRANMERE R

BRADFORD C

CHESTER C

CHESTERFIELD

MACCLESFIELD T

MORECAMBE

PORT VALE

ROTHERHAM U

SCUNTHORPE U

 

Would we really miss the HUGE attendances from the likes of;

 

BRIGHTON

BRISTOL R

CHELTENHAM

COLCHESTER

HEREFORD

LEYTON ORIENT

NORTHAMPTON

SOUTHEND

SWINDON

YEOVIL

 

I think it would be well worth giving it a go....It would certainly get struggling clubs through the reccesion and reduce the ongoing threat of administration and impending liquidation.

 

 

[opinions4u]

Travel costs saved: minimal. A coach costs much the same regardless of the journey length. You don't have to stay in a hotel (although I'd say they should for anything south of Birmingham).

 

Crowds: would more people really attend more games on the back of it? Not so sure. Hard times are hard times, so you don't think "oh, I'll pop over to see us play Scunthorpe tonight". Would Accrington really bring more than Brighton? Granted, there would be some gain, but even an extra 250 people a week at £15 a time (average) = around 2%-3% of turnover (guesstimate).

 

Biggest cost base for a football club: players' wages.

 

I think the third point is the one to address first.

Edited March 24, 2009 by opinions4u

[Latics and England]

I really enjoy long away trips but I would still be in favour of splitting the league. Games like tonight take a lot of arranging, to get time off etc.

 

I think it would increase crowds, and reduce travelling costs (no overnighters for the team) which would be a good thing for football.

 

It's a bit harsh on the Exiles though.

Edited March 24, 2009 by Latics & England

[oafc1955]

Travel costs saved: minimal. A coach costs much the same regardless of the journey length. You don't have to stay in a hotel (although I'd say they should for anything south of Birmingham).

 

Crowds: would more people really attend more games on the back of it? Not so sure. Hard times are hard times, so you don't think "oh, I'll pop over to see us play Scunthorpe tonight". Would Accrington really bring more than Brighton? Granted, there would be some gain, but even an extra 250 people a week at £15 a time (average) = around 2%-3% of turnover (guesstimate).

 

Biggest cost base for a football club: players' wages.

 

I think the third point is the one to address first.

 

I work in the Transport Industry and the cost of a coach to Brighton 540 miles would be considerably more than Walsall at 175 miles... for a start the fuel cost alone would be x 3 and at around 12 miles to a gallon that's a fair amount.

 

Our home game against Brighton attracted 4,800 so yes I would say we could get an increase on that!

 

We took in excess of 700 to Scunthorpe and they brought over 900 here and they were both on a Tuesday Night......Compare that with say Yeovil, Southend or Northampton..we'd be lucky to get 700 between the three of them. I think you'll agree that your guesstimate of 250 per week is a little on the low side but even that would equate to around £86,000 a season.

 

 

I agree....players wages are a joke, however, it is the clubs decision to pay those wages but they do have a choice and could concentrate more on their academy players to keep the costs lower.

[Lookers_Carl]

There would be some issues though with having a north/south divide, such as

 

- Basically the 48 clubs in the bottom 2 divisions would be divided according to the 24 lcubs furthest north and the 24 clubs furthest south. Depending on who goes down from the championship each year one or two clubs may be moved from north to south

 

- Some could also say its not a fair reflection on talent. For example, "League 1 North" or whatever it would be called may be of a much higher standard than league 1 south,

 

- Promotion and relegation: How would this work? Would the number of clubs relegated from the championship be increased to 4 and ave 2 teams going up from north and another 2 from south?

[OldhamSheridan]

I guess it's each to their own this argument.

 

For me, the whole football experience is going to the far flung (Southern in my case) grounds. Stopping over/near at the town or with friends/family and enjoying a good old fashioned piss-up. Local grounds certainly wouldn't do that as I can get back homeafterwards, so I'd drive there and back on the same day. Or more to the point, pretty soon (with no enjoyable match day experience at all) I may get to the point I just wouldn't bother.

 

Alright, I may miss some games at the moment due to it being a Tuesday night game in Cheltenham, but it's not like these fall on these days in their multitudes.

Edited March 24, 2009 by OldhamSheridan

[OldhamSheridan]

- Promotion and relegation: How would this work? Would the number of clubs relegated from the championship be increased to 4 and ave 2 teams going up from north and another 2 from south?

 

You don't necessarily have to increase them.

 

One straight up from each.

Playoff winners from North v Playoff winners from South for promotion.

 

Again you may have to shift your Walsall's between the North and the South Division, which I suppose would make it pretty good being a fan of these said clubs.

[leeslover]

There would be a huge gap in quality between the best and worst teams in the division, with Leicester playing Vale and MK Bastards playing Barnet. I suspect it would leave teams that went into the Championship less well prepared for it. It would not make the clubs any more secure anyway, they would still spend as much as they can afford and a bit more on players, any extra money into the game simply inflates the salaries of the playing staff.

[LaticsPete]

There would be some issues though with having a north/south divide, such as

 

- Basically the 48 clubs in the bottom 2 divisions would be divided according to the 24 lcubs furthest north and the 24 clubs furthest south. Depending on who goes down from the championship each year one or two clubs may be moved from north to south

 

-

 

Was never a difficulty when we previously had Div 3 N & S. Some teams were moved about but it was never contentious.

The same thing happens now with Conference N & S,

[oafc1955]

I guess it's each to their own this argument.

 

For me, the whole football experience is going to the far flung (Southern in my case) grounds. Stopping over/near at the town or with friends/family and enjoying a good old fashioned piss-up. Local grounds certainly wouldn't do that as I can get back homeafterwards, so I'd drive there and back on the same day. Or more to the point, pretty soon (with no enjoyable match day experience at all) I may get to the point I just wouldn't bother.

 

Alright, I may miss some games at the moment due to it being a Tuesday night game in Cheltenham, but it's not like these fall on these days in their multitudes.

 

I understand what your saying entirely but you are a minority and not everyone has the time or finances to go on 500 mile roundtrips every other Saturday. This could be a solution for the less well off clubs with dwindling attendances.

 

Unfortunately there isn't enough people doing what you do and for this reason, clubs, especially those in the lower divisions, are struggling to survive.

 

This isn't going to suit everybody but if it helps keep your local club solvent it surely has to be worth some consideration.

 

[opinions4u]

One straight up from each.

Playoff winners from North v Playoff winners from South for promotion.

Here lies the problem.

 

The Championship would be unlikely to increase the number of teams relegated.

 

Only 3 promoted out of 48 would be as boring as hell.

 

You can fiddle around with the play-offs, but I think any benefits of local games increasing crowds would be diminished by interest falling away due to:

 

1) Too many games against poor opposition

2) Little chance of ever getting out of the division

Edited March 24, 2009 by opinions4u

[oafc1955]

There would be a huge gap in quality between the best and worst teams in the division, with Leicester playing Vale and MK Bastards playing Barnet. I suspect it would leave teams that went into the Championship less well prepared for it. It would not make the clubs any more secure anyway, they would still spend as much as they can afford and a bit more on players, any extra money into the game simply inflates the salaries of the playing staff.

 

It could actually have the opposite effect and help the leagues become more competitive. There's a huge gap in quality in the premiership between the likes of Man U and Hull but it doesn't stop it being succesful.

 

As far as wasting the extra money on players wages, well that's down to the clubs at the end of the day... don't forget you would still have the salary cap!

[24hoursfromtulsehill]

What happens if the four teams relegated from the Championship are southern teams? Does the southern league suddenly become four teams bigger than the northern one?

[slurms mckenzie]

Definately regionalisation would help to stop the decrease in attendancies, as a home game against Dale or Bury etc would generate far more interest than Colchester or Chelts. Maybe if 1 automatic from each division then play off winners from each division went up, and 4 came down from Championship?

 

 

[oafc1955]

What happens if the four teams relegated from the Championship are southern teams? Does the southern league suddenly become four teams bigger than the northern one?

 

Easy...you just move the 4 most northerly teams over from the South div to the North Division!!

 

[opinions4u]

Definately regionalisation would help to stop the decrease in attendancies, as a home game against Dale or Bury etc would generate far more interest than Colchester or Chelts. Maybe if 1 automatic from each division then play off winners from each division went up, and 4 came down from Championship?

You'd be reducing the number of sides promoted from the current number of 7 to just 4.

 

And there is no way the Championship would say "we're happy to let another of our clubs take the drop".

 

Turkey's tend not to vote for Christmas.

Edited March 24, 2009 by opinions4u

[ghostofcecere]

Would the attendance really increase that much?

 

Lets say we have 2 home games in a month at £20 a go, then away at Bury and Rochdale in the same month another £40. How many off us realistically are gonna spend £80 out of one months salary on watching Latics?

 

It will be same for away fans at BP, people will still pick and choose games.