ghostofcecere Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 Another point raised tonight was about a "safe" standing area inside a new stadium. Both Simon Corney and Alan Hardy said they would love to have one inside a new development as it would no doubt create a better atmosphere(Alan even quipped it would be cheaper than having seats!) but the current rules do not allow it. Unless there is a rule change (which has basically come about becuase we were once a Premier League club) we cannot have a safe standing area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bring Back Ronnie Moore Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 (edited) While we're at BP they should slap some safety rails up in the paddock of Lookers and make it all standing. Job's a good'un. Edited December 9, 2009 by Bring Back Ronnie Moore Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Latics and England Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 Another point raised tonight was about a "safe" standing area inside a new stadium. Both Simon Corney and Alan Hardy said they would love to have one inside a new development as it would no doubt create a better atmosphere(Alan even quipped it would be cheaper than having seats!) but the current rules do not allow it. Unless there is a rule change (which has basically come about becuase we were once a Premier League club) we cannot have a safe standing area. It seems ridiculous that we are not allowed to build a stadium with a terrace because we currently have an all seater stadium yet if we didn't have one at present, we would be fine to include a safe standing section. Peterborough are currenlty playing in the Championship with a ground with very few seats yet we are not allowed to have a section where 500 people can stand up in League one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tangerinedreams Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 It seems ridiculous that we are not allowed to build a stadium with a terrace because we currently have an all seater stadium yet if we didn't have one at present, we would be fine to include a safe standing section. Peterborough are currenlty playing in the Championship with a ground with very few seats yet we are not allowed to have a section where 500 people can stand up in League one Would that not change on the current league we are in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Latics and England Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 Would that not change on the current league we are in? Apparently while we are a Football League club, the rules are that once you have been designated as an all seater ground, you ar not allowed to play in a non-all seater ground. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghostofcecere Posted December 9, 2009 Author Share Posted December 9, 2009 Apparently while we are a Football League club, the rules are that once you have been designated as an all seater ground, you ar not allowed to play in a non-all seater ground. Yeah that was it, once an all seater ground/club, always and all seater ground/club....... not a Premier League do da like I said in the first post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tangerinedreams Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 (edited) Apparently while we are a Football League club, the rules are that once you have been designated as an all seater ground, you ar not allowed to play in a non-all seater ground. I'm assuming that includes a new build too. Edited December 9, 2009 by tangerinedreams Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 I'm assuming that includes a new build too. Yep, it's a one way street - I think they realised that some clubs would be in dire trouble if forced to go all seater so they let the lower leagues slide but without any way for anyone to go in the other direction. I sort of thought you had to get it all-seater to enter the Championship, do Peterborough have a grace period to sort it out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macca Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 Yep, it's a one way street - I think they realised that some clubs would be in dire trouble if forced to go all seater so they let the lower leagues slide but without any way for anyone to go in the other direction. I sort of thought you had to get it all-seater to enter the Championship, do Peterborough have a grace period to sort it out? I think so. Stockport and Gillingham had to convert their standing areas into seating after a few seasons of being in the Championship. Dunno if there are any other clubs with standing in the championship currently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tangerinedreams Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 Yep, it's a one way street - I think they realised that some clubs would be in dire trouble if forced to go all seater so they let the lower leagues slide but without any way for anyone to go in the other direction. I sort of thought you had to get it all-seater to enter the Championship, do Peterborough have a grace period to sort it out? Harsh under current circumstances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Dowds Green Shirt Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 Yep, it's a one way street - I think they realised that some clubs would be in dire trouble if forced to go all seater so they let the lower leagues slide but without any way for anyone to go in the other direction. I sort of thought you had to get it all-seater to enter the Championship, do Peterborough have a grace period to sort it out? They have 2 seasons grace, unless they are in the process of having a new stadium built. Cardiff is the example for that. Fulham before them were granted an extention to the 2 year period as they had agreed to ground share with QPR whilst Craven Cottage was redeveloped and were awaiting planning permission for the rebuild at CC which included listed buildings. They were granted an extension due to special circumstances and also that they had a plan to become all seater subject to planning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oafc88 Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 (edited) Shame we couldnt offer to the football league that we'd trial these new safe standing areas like the one's in Germany, though i wouldnt hold my breath to see the football league (or the government for that matter) show some common sense to change the rules. Fingers crossed they change the rules in the future, hopefully before we build the stadium! Edited December 10, 2009 by Oafc88 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 Another point raised tonight was about a "safe" standing area inside a new stadium. Both Simon Corney and Alan Hardy said they would love to have one inside a new development as it would no doubt create a better atmosphere(Alan even quipped it would be cheaper than having seats!) but the current rules do not allow it. Unless there is a rule change (which has basically come about becuase we were once a Premier League club) we cannot have a safe standing area. Anyone thank them for stating the obvious...??? Surely the follow should of been will you push for a change in the rules ?? If you don't ask you don't get... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafckev Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 The question asked: “I don't know if it's possible - is safe standing a possibility? I think this could encourage attendance.” Alan Hardy “I would love to have standing. I have spoken to the Football League. Due to being designated as an all seater during the Premiership days we cannot go back.” Simon Corney “We would love standing and think it would have a massive impact and I don't know if we can challenge it, but if we can we will.” The thing to note from the standing debate is that we don't want the old style unsafe terracing back. Instead a modern version that has been tested successfully in Germany which would be ideal for the English football fan who should have the right to stand at a football match. Times have changed at football, a different breed of fans now attend games, with cctv and better policing, standing up is now just a matter of changing the legislation rather than a safety issue. I think the football league has given Hardy the easy answer and he’s taken it without arguing the positives that come with safe standing. Benefits would be achieved for the fans who like to sit down throughout a game as you wouldn’t clash with the supporter who likes to stand which blocks your view of the action. It would reduce aggression between stewards and fan’s, as the efforts of constantly trying to get a section sat down would be taken away. Atmosphere in the stadium would also be better. It would increase attendance as it would add to a positive match day experience which Simon Corney is aiming for. It would give the club something unique and if we are the first club to have it we’d be in the record books forever. It would also benefit our disabled supporters as the fans who want to stand would be away from blocking their view – which has been complained about on here about the RRE. Surely if the Germans can allow 25,000 fans to stand then can have a 3000 standing area. As for challenging the legislation - Why couldn't you challenge it? You can challenge anything if you really want too. Note to anybody reading this at the club – as it stands I’m not 100% about the move to Failsworth. If you get permission to test or erect a safe standing Stand then I will fully back the move away from Boundary Park. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wozz_oafc Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 The question asked: “I don't know if it's possible - is safe standing a possibility? I think this could encourage attendance.” Alan Hardy “I would love to have standing. I have spoken to the Football League. Due to being designated as an all seater during the Premiership days we cannot go back.” Simon Corney “We would love standing and think it would have a massive impact and I don't know if we can challenge it, but if we can we will.” The thing to note from the standing debate is that we don't want the old style unsafe terracing back. Instead a modern version that has been tested successfully in Germany which would be ideal for the English football fan who should have the right to stand at a football match. Times have changed at football, a different breed of fans now attend games, with cctv and better policing, standing up is now just a matter of changing the legislation rather than a safety issue. I think the football league has given Hardy the easy answer and he’s taken it without arguing the positives that come with safe standing. Benefits would be achieved for the fans who like to sit down throughout a game as you wouldn’t clash with the supporter who likes to stand which blocks your view of the action. It would reduce aggression between stewards and fan’s, as the efforts of constantly trying to get a section sat down would be taken away. Atmosphere in the stadium would also be better. It would increase attendance as it would add to a positive match day experience which Simon Corney is aiming for. It would give the club something unique and if we are the first club to have it we’d be in the record books forever. It would also benefit our disabled supporters as the fans who want to stand would be away from blocking their view – which has been complained about on here about the RRE. Surely if the Germans can allow 25,000 fans to stand then can have a 3000 standing area. As for challenging the legislation - Why couldn't you challenge it? You can challenge anything if you really want too. Note to anybody reading this at the club – as it stands I’m not 100% about the move to Failsworth. If you get permission to test or erect a safe standing Stand then I will fully back the move away from Boundary Park. My hat goes off to you for putting across the pro standing argument so clearly! I think it would be good for clubs to challenge the legislation as I guess they would have more weight than individual fans. Its a shame that there isnt a lot of clubs all moving at one time who could challenge together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 (edited) I would love to see the return of terracing, although my tired old legs might not always fancy it after a long journey to the match these days :drinking45: NOTE TO REALITY THOUGH: there is more chance of Beardy finally managing to suck his own cock before this would ever be possible. The rules are based on acts of Parliament, even where there is discretion it is not going to be used in our favour for no reason than that we ask them to nicely. There is more chance of Beardy giving himself a rim-job than any fresh legislation going through Parliament this side of an election, and I doubt it would be top of the agenda for the new Government after. We might hope to find a random MP to try against the odds to get a Private Members Bill going, although even these these hardly ever become law, but in any case I would guess that this law is in place for a bare minimum three years (hopefully Mr Tulsehill can clear up the details). So we wouldn't even be able to start planning applications based on a plainly illegal stadium design until we had final news on the vague hope of changing a law that isn't going to be changed. Edited December 10, 2009 by leeslover Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corneys_world Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 Fans can help with this current regulation by contacting your local MP Maybe someone can organise a draft letter all fans can send to their MP ? The club would support any terrace area at the new stadium if it was deemed possible to incorporate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opinions4u Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 How long will it take to get MPs on board, Acts of Parliament passed etc? They ain't going to delay the planning and construction process for this because time is money. Best hope: The corners being filled with standing only areas in the year 2040 when Latics return to the Premiership - allowing capacity to increase to an ambitious 18,000 instead of the current 11,000 !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaticNik Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 Agree. Can we get over it once and for all? Terraces are a thing of the past. Move on. E4e STDWN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beag_teeets Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 Agree. Can we get over it once and for all? Terraces are a thing of the past. Move on. E4e STDWN +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Latics and England Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 Agree. Can we get over it once and for all? Terraces are a thing of the past. Move on. E4e STDWN I totally disagree. There is no reason why we shouldn't be able to stand sefely. There should be a choice. If you want to sit, you can sit but if you want to stand, that should also be available. It appears that legislation on this is not immovable FSF - Safe Standing While I don't think the development should be held up while we look into this, I also don't see any harm in lobbying to be allowed to trial a safe standing area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowl Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 Agree. Can we get over it once and for all? Terraces are a thing of the past. Move on. E4e STDWN This is referred to as 'the good old days' by many, why can't we stand if we want? BP has been crap for the last 15 years ever since they made it all seating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc1955 Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 This is referred to as 'the good old days' by many, why can't we stand if we want? BP has been crap for the last 15 years ever since they made it all seating. I will admit that if everybody remained seated all of the time during a match in an all seater arena the viewing experience and safety aspect is probably better than standing, however, when a goal is scored or there is continued penalty area action ( I currently excuse latics fans from this phenomenon) it is a natural reaction to stand up and because of this the whole crowd have to follow suit to be able to see. At this point seating areas can become very dangerous indeed and I have myself nearly come a cropper on several occasions when having to stand up due to pushing from behind. The seats in front are invariably shin high and if you were to overbalance and fall forward, as a result, you would almost certainly, at the very least, break your legs. The atmosphere created whilst standing is far far better and it would solve our cost / capacity problem we are encountering at the proposed Failsworth site! I think the time is right and that it would be a good idea to press for a change in regulations, maybe through European parliament, as what's good for Germany should be good enough here!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimsleftfoot Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 I totally disagree. There is no reason why we shouldn't be able to stand sefely. There should be a choice. If you want to sit, you can sit but if you want to stand, that should also be available. It appears that legislation on this is not immovable FSF - Safe Standing While I don't think the development should be held up while we look into this, I also don't see any harm in lobbying to be allowed to trial a safe standing area. There is no real political will to support any safe standing debate so it won’t change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danoafc Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 (edited) I will admit that if everybody remained seated all of the time during a match in an all seater arena the viewing experience and safety aspect is probably better than standing, however, when a goal is scored or there is continued penalty area action ( I currently excuse latics fans from this phenomenon) it is a natural reaction to stand up and because of this the whole crowd have to follow suit to be able to see. At this point seating areas can become very dangerous indeed and I have myself nearly come a cropper on several occasions when having to stand up due to pushing from behind. The seats in front are invariably shin high and if you were to overbalance and fall forward, as a result, you would almost certainly, at the very least, break your legs. The atmosphere created whilst standing is far far better and it would solve our cost / capacity problem we are encountering at the proposed Failsworth site! I think the time is right and that it would be a good idea to press for a change in regulations, maybe through European parliament, as what's good for Germany should be good enough here!! I can certainly see the argument here, and it would be great if OAFC could be a trend setter in terms of well designed 21st century safe standing areas, but I would imagine any legal challenge would take years, and that is frankly time that OAFC doesn't have when you look at falling gates, falling revenue and crumbling facilities. If however the plans for a seated stadium could be drawn up whilst simultaneously challenging the legislation with the capacity to alter the plans to include safe standing, I'd be all for it. Edited December 10, 2009 by danoafc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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