First post for a while...

[Scapegoat]

A mixture of cancelled games, missed matches (book your holidays around the fixture list and get screwed by postponements) and a sense of apathy has kept me off the board for a while.

 

I am not surprised to see the amount of anti-Penny threads and comments, but yet again we seem to be moving more and more towards the revolving door manager policy that we used to ridicule the Man City fans for.

 

6 months is not enough time to judge any manager, no matter how bad we are doing. Are that much worse than last season?

 

Look at our goals against column, and it stands comparison to most of the division. We just are not scoring enough goals - Swindon in 5th have scored 35 goals in 25 games (not that impressive) and have a simlar defensive record. Over the last few years we have had Lee Hughes, and before that Chris Porter (and even Clyde and Wayno before that) who contributed a decent haul of goals. With something similar this season, we'd be up in the top half on the fringes of the play-offs.

 

This is a very ordinary division, and we are an ordinary team. A decent player up front and we'd compete.

 

Whilst from the outside it looks like we have dropped off a cliff in terms of form from last season, we know that the second half of last season was about the same as the start to this. Why should we not give DP time to turn it around?

 

Sack him and we'll get what? Less money for players / wages as we pay him off. No real chance of getting anyone on paper who is any better?

 

Give him time and Keep the Faith.

[outoftheblue]

Over the last few years we have had Lee Hughes, and before that Chris Porter (and even Clyde and Wayno before that) who contributed a decent haul of goals. With something similar this season, we'd be up in the top half on the fringes of the play-offs.

I'm sure most people would have expected Abbot, Parker and a cameo from Heffernan to have yielded a similar amount of goals this season.

What would you suggest was something similar to Hughes?

Bloody Rooney wouldn't find the net too often without the service from a more positive and attacking setup.

[philliggi]

Its not a question of results or defensive records. ok the defensive record is really good. i agree, but if you watch the performances there is absolutely nothing to get excited about. long ball, constantly changing tactics and personnel around without giving the last effort time to bed in. just aimless football.

 

im sure most fans would agree with me when i say losing wouldnt be so bad if the football we were trying to play was positive. in sheridans first season didnt we lose his first five games on the bounce (correct me if im wrong) but it was obvious to see how he wanted the game played and we stuck by that.

[Stitch_KTF]

He's failing in every aspect, bar a decent defensive record (but we all know why we have that, it's almost a 'symptom' of the Cautious Dave complaint, along with the all time low crowds), and we just can't afford to give time to people who haven't earnt it. It could kill us.

 

It just doesn't seem to be working out for Penney for whatever reason. The man to give time to was Shez, and maybe Ronnie before him. We need to give time to the next manager who looks like taking us somewhere, not just the next manager fullstop.

 

I'm not sure if I'd sack him today or give him Brentford and Stockport to collect 6 points. I'd probably get rid today as, should we lose these two games, the new manager would be facing a tough start fixture wise and we would surely be in the bookies 4 favourites to go down. And he'd probably have to play another 2/3 games whilst waiting for the loan market to reopen which would by then see us two thirds into the season.

 

Get Stitch in - better pedigree as a manger and he'd boost the crowds.

[singe]

.....

 

Get Stitch in - better pedigree as a manger and he'd boost the crowds.

After Joe rRyle, I am not sure even that trick would be enough to boost crowds.

 

The ONLY ways to boost attendances are the position in the League table, and to a lesser extent the attacking game on the pitch. Position first and foremost and I doubt Stich ahs time to turn it around.

[thelaticsfan]

I dont want any tricks or any manager to come in for the sake of boosting crowds.

keep penney because:

a) I dont blame him for our lowly position

we cant afford to pay up his wages and bring someone else in

c) if we brought someone else in hed want all his own players and would unsetlle the squad further

 

 

[Sinstadt]

The man to give time to was Shez,

 

Wasn't three years time?

[oafc-latics]

I dont want any tricks or any manager to come in for the sake of boosting crowds.

keep penney because:

a) I dont blame him for our lowly position

we cant afford to pay up his wages and bring someone else in

c) if we brought someone else in hed want all his own players and would unsetlle the squad further

 

id prefer to have less crowds and stay up than more crowds, a new manager and relegation which is what would happen if penney went and we got an average, crowd booster as manager.

[dfOAFC]

bloody Rooney wouldn't find the net too often without the service from a more positive and attacking setup.

 

you don't think he would have scored in the first half on saturday?

[dfOAFC]

A mixture of cancelled games, missed matches (book your holidays around the fixture list and get screwed by postponements) and a sense of apathy has kept me off the board for a while.

 

I am not surprised to see the amount of anti-Penny threads and comments, but yet again we seem to be moving more and more towards the revolving door manager policy that we used to ridicule the Man City fans for.

 

6 months is not enough time to judge any manager, no matter how bad we are doing. Are that much worse than last season?

 

Look at our goals against column, and it stands comparison to most of the division. We just are not scoring enough goals - Swindon in 5th have scored 35 goals in 25 games (not that impressive) and have a simlar defensive record. Over the last few years we have had Lee Hughes, and before that Chris Porter (and even Clyde and Wayno before that) who contributed a decent haul of goals. With something similar this season, we'd be up in the top half on the fringes of the play-offs.

 

This is a very ordinary division, and we are an ordinary team. A decent player up front and we'd compete.

 

Whilst from the outside it looks like we have dropped off a cliff in terms of form from last season, we know that the second half of last season was about the same as the start to this. Why should we not give DP time to turn it around?

 

Sack him and we'll get what? Less money for players / wages as we pay him off. No real chance of getting anyone on paper who is any better?

 

Give him time and Keep the Faith.

 

excellent post - agree 100%

Edited January 25, 2010 by dfOAFC

[EASTLEY]

For me its his tactics that are badly wrong, thats why I think he has to go. I have never previously asked for another manager to be replaced but I fear for Latics under DP.

 

He seems more scared of conceding that interested in scoring. The full backs are rarely seen in the opposition half, the centre midfield sit in front of the back 4, the ball is played centrally to Abbott who then has to hold it until somebody tries to link with him, usually from wide midfield. If this was quick football it would be ok but we are so reticent(apologies for the spelling)to go forward that this takes an age allowing the opposition to get numbers and their shape back before we pose a serious threat.

 

At Wycombe DP replaced our most threatening attacking player(Colbeck) at 2-1 and for the rest of the game we sat back and allowed Wycombe to press, save a couple of half chances in a game we had dominated to that point(after the first 10 mins).

 

Against Tranmere we were woeful throughout the game, as were they to be fair.

 

Saturday we looked ok first half but retreated back on to the edge of the box in the 2nd half and allowed Millwall to attack us. Then with 30 mins to go and behind 1-0 we replace our most threatening player with a young kid who is clearly not ready to lead the line yet(IMO).

 

When we fall behind we have no plan B and did on Sat did not threaten. Have a look at our goals for record and you will see how woeful it is. In the last two games at home BTW the opposition keeper has not made 1 meaningful save.

 

This has been the story of our season and as DP does not look like changeing his tactics I think he has to go or we will be in League 2 next year

 

 

[Hometownclub]

I have never before called for a Latics manager to be sacked in 37 years of watching the club, but I think if we do not make the change pretty soon it will be too late for the new man to turn it round.

 

We just are not giving ourselves any chance to win games, as Eastley says 2 home games neither of them against particularly great opposition and we haven't forced either opposing keeper to make a save of any note.

 

We are short on confidence yes, but I feel we are more short on ability and the manager is desperately short on the tactical know how and the motivational skill to turn this situation around.

 

A new man may not turn the situation around but I feel certain Dave Penney won't.

 

 

[Scapegoat]

The man to give time to was Shez

 

I agree. I would not have sacked Shez unless he took us down. Even after 3 years he was a new manager learning his trade and had enough potential to improve to be given time. Not sure I'd say the same for Ronnie, he was as good as he would get IMO.

 

However Shez has gone, and therefore give Penny time. Another relatively young manager, and his limited record is OK before us. It takes time to turn a team and club around - and whilst initial signs are not great, things often get worse before they get better.

[nava]

However Shez has gone, and therefore give Penny time. Another relatively young manager, and his limited record is OK before us. It takes time to turn a team and club around - and whilst initial signs are not great, things often get worse before they get better.

 

 

He has always been backed though and spent big money so he should have a decent track record. I would be all for giving him time if there was the slightest positive i could see so far from this season, but i spent my dinner today trying to come up with one with another Latics fan and we just couldn't. he's signed poor players in the main, doesn't try to win the game and is fully happy with a point even against s*** teams like the last 4 we have played.

 

If we keep him in charge then we will have to accept playing in league 2 next season and i really cant see us bouncing back from that like people expect we would.

 

 

[edhunteruk]

He has always been backed though and spent big money so he should have a decent track record. I would be all for giving him time if there was the slightest positive i could see so far from this season, but i spent my dinner today trying to come up with one with another Latics fan and we just couldn't. he's signed poor players in the main, doesn't try to win the game and is fully happy with a point even against s*** teams like the last 4 we have played.

 

If we keep him in charge then we will have to accept playing in league 2 next season and i really cant see us bouncing back from that like people expect we would.

 

we wont necessarily get relegated..yes its just looking a little dodgy,but it could be a hell of a lot worse,we could be stockport..

 

purdie hasnt played,he was signed as our main man in midfield and it hasnt worked yet.

 

brill seems to have knuckled down but still early days...one player who hasnt worked is parker,i was chuffed when we signed him because of his potential,alas he is just happy picking up money for old rope

 

i dont understand why the manager doesnt just admit it and get him out on loan to bring someone else in who may just do it for us,get rid od smalley and whittacker as well,bring in better class of player...

 

i feel if we sign heffernan or an other we may just move up,the back is fine but there is just no threat.

 

i would also like to see positive tactics and subs,forget playing it safe,you may as well get beat 4-0 as 1-0,so just go for it from the off.

[dfOAFC]

i would also like to see positive tactics and subs,forget playing it safe,you may as well get beat 4-0 as 1-0,so just go for it from the off.

 

like Saturday?

[nava]

we wont necessarily get relegated..yes its just looking a little dodgy,but it could be a hell of a lot worse,we could be stockport..

 

purdie hasnt played,he was signed as our main man in midfield and it hasnt worked yet.

 

brill seems to have knuckled down but still early days...one player who hasnt worked is parker,i was chuffed when we signed him because of his potential,alas he is just happy picking up money for old rope

 

i dont understand why the manager doesnt just admit it and get him out on loan to bring someone else in who may just do it for us,get rid od smalley and whittacker as well,bring in better class of player...

 

i feel if we sign heffernan or an other we may just move up,the back is fine but there is just no threat.

 

i would also like to see positive tactics and subs,forget playing it safe,you may as well get beat 4-0 as 1-0,so just go for it from the off.

 

 

The problem is who will want them? I agree it could be worse but Stockport is a bad example they basically have nothing and are highly unlikely to see the start of next season as a professional football club.

 

I think Heffernan would be a great signing but feel he will be wasted as he will get limited service as we try to defend a 0-0 scoreline.

 

As for positive tactics I wouldn't hold my breath.

[steveoafc]

like Saturday?

Yes but don't throw in the towel when we go one down!

[steveoafc]

we wont necessarily get relegated..yes its just looking a little dodgy,but it could be a hell of a lot worse,we could be stockport..

 

purdie hasnt played,he was signed as our main man in midfield and it hasnt worked yet.

 

brill seems to have knuckled down but still early days...one player who hasnt worked is parker,i was chuffed when we signed him because of his potential,alas he is just happy picking up money for old rope

 

i dont understand why the manager doesnt just admit it and get him out on loan to bring someone else in who may just do it for us,get rid od smalley and whittacker as well,bring in better class of player...

 

i feel if we sign heffernan or an other we may just move up,the back is fine but there is just no threat.

 

i would also like to see positive tactics and subs,forget playing it safe,you may as well get beat 4-0 as 1-0,so just go for it from the off.

I'd like to see heffernan here playing with abbott but are we hanging on for him at the expense of all others?

Here's a positive move...Get two strikers in! ( shock,horror ) heffernan and one other, We must have scope seeing as we're saving on wages for heff,blackman and timar..oh and flahaven. Let's go for it and give ourselves a chance!

[tangerinedreams]

Yes but don't throw in the towel when we go one down!

 

Let's go for it and give ourselves a chance!

 

 

 

 

 

That no longer is an option!

 

That now is the only option.

[rosa]

For me its his tactics that are badly wrong, thats why I think he has to go. I have never previously asked for another manager to be replaced but I fear for Latics under DP.

 

He seems more scared of conceding that interested in scoring. The full backs are rarely seen in the opposition half, the centre midfield sit in front of the back 4, the ball is played centrally to Abbott who then has to hold it until somebody tries to link with him, usually from wide midfield. If this was quick football it would be ok but we are so reticent(apologies for the spelling)to go forward that this takes an age allowing the opposition to get numbers and their shape back before we pose a serious threat.

 

At Wycombe DP replaced our most threatening attacking player(Colbeck) at 2-1 and for the rest of the game we sat back and allowed Wycombe to press, save a couple of half chances in a game we had dominated to that point(after the first 10 mins).

 

Against Tranmere we were woeful throughout the game, as were they to be fair.

 

Saturday we looked ok first half but retreated back on to the edge of the box in the 2nd half and allowed Millwall to attack us. Then with 30 mins to go and behind 1-0 we replace our most threatening player with a young kid who is clearly not ready to lead the line yet(IMO).

 

When we fall behind we have no plan B and did on Sat did not threaten. Have a look at our goals for record and you will see how woeful it is. In the last two games at home BTW the opposition keeper has not made 1 meaningful save.

 

This has been the story of our season and as DP does not look like changeing his tactics I think he has to go or we will be in League 2 next year

Couldn't agree more, i hate calling for the manager to go but it's one thing saying 'give him til the end of the season' when failure means missing out on the playoffs;it's not a chance i'm prepared to give him when we're 21st and showing no sign of being able to turn things around. We probably can't afford to pay him off but relegation will cost us far more. Hate to say it but they've sacked the wrong employee today.

[boundaryblue80]

For me its his tactics that are badly wrong, thats why I think he has to go. I have never previously asked for another manager to be replaced but I fear for Latics under DP.

 

At Wycombe DP replaced our most threatening attacking player(Colbeck) at 2-1 and for the rest of the game we sat back and allowed Wycombe to press, save a couple of half chances in a game we had dominated to that point(after the first 10 mins).

I find it almost unbelievable that several posters can claim to have never called for a managers head before after what happened under Talbot...if that's true, then to me it shows how unfair you're now being to Penney as Talbot was a terrible manager but yet you couldn't come to calling for his head. AND also...Talbot had longer than DP has had, if only 6/7wks!!!

 

As for Colbeck...it must just be coincidence then that he's not figured in any of our games since....taking him off was nothing to do with the fact he either was carrying a knock, or was fatiguing (like Abbott was on Saturday) due to carrying an injury?

Edited January 26, 2010 by boundaryblue80

[Hometownclub]

I find it almost unbelievable that several posters can claim to have never called for a managers head before after what happened under Talbot...if that's true, then to me it shows how unfair you're now being to Penney as Talbot was a terrible manager but yet you couldn't come to calling for his head. AND also...Talbot had longer than DP has had, if only 6/7wks!!!

 

As for Colbeck...it must just be coincidence then that he's not figured in any of our games since....taking him off was nothing to do with the fact he either was carrying a knock, or was fatiguing (like Abbott was on Saturday) due to carrying an injury?

At what point would you say enough is enough with Penney?

 

Does a manager need say 3 years to be able to say yes I've had a fair crack of the whip and been given a chance.

 

If we get relegated this season (which is a very real possibilty), do we stick with Penney and say well you've had a shocking run of injuries and bad luck, and you've only been here 12 months which is nowhere near enough time to show us what you can do.

 

So we give him another 12 months and give him the job of getting us back into League 1, then lets say we don't come straight back up (which would be very likely), so then he's had 2 years and all this time we've been losing fans on a weekly basis, due to poor result and god awful performances.

 

Do we then say well a manager does need a good 3 years to put his stamp on the club and the team, so do we then give him another 12 months?

 

I see what you are saying about giving managers time and a chance but sometimes it doesn't take 2/3 years to see that things are going badly wrong and are unlikely to get any better.

Edited January 26, 2010 by Hometownclub

[Stevie_J]

I find it almost unbelievable that several posters can claim to have never called for a managers head before after what happened under Talbot...if that's true, then to me it shows how unfair you're now being to Penney as Talbot was a terrible manager but yet you couldn't come to calling for his head. AND also...Talbot had longer than DP has had, if only 6/7wks!!!

Weren't you calling for Talbot's head?

[outoftheblue]

Penney could well put us in a similar (Or worse) league position as Talbot, with the added humiliation of failing in the first round of the cups. As crap as Talbot was, at least we saw some good cup ties like the City and Bolton games under him, unlike DP.