rigsby Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 Well said I cannot believe some people's hang ups about anyone with a bit of money. For anyone to think that TTA and now T1A will walk away with barrowfuls of cash is beyond comprehension. It is the literal loss of money that may indeed cause hm to walk. really? would you like to hazard a guess at the value of all the land the TTA own? ps,its a LOT. PPS,the club has ZERO assets so its the FANS who are going to lose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudemedic Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 I'm still amazed that people really believe that it is the problem of "the last few seasons" (Moore, Moore, DP, JR, TTA, Clayton knocked down, Lookers knocked down) - utter bollocks. We have been on a downward spiral since pockets were lined and nobody had the balls to take a gamble on this club when we were in the very best position we have ever been in and are ever likely to be in again - 1991-1994. The long term future could well have been decided there and then with some foresight and investment, we may well be receiving some of this inflated 'bunce' that the likes of your Doncaster, Barnsley and Scunthorpe are now regularly receiving - we saw neither. Despite the failure of a new ground, a promoted side, a redeveloped BP - To spend £14million pounds and seemingly get fook all in return and receive countless amounts of critics along the way, if SC does walk at the end of the season, biting the hand that has fed us for the last few years may truly be a mistake. Bingo, I've said this in other posts lately- the club dropped a major clanger with the very cheap way BP was converted to seating and the very cheap "executive boxes". That was probably sometime before the landlords created a telecommunications company, nevermind investing in a football club. Corney and his pals have made mistakes, find me anyone who hasn't (aside from those born in the last 3 months), but they are learning from them: Not backing Shez when we had the chance to go up- backing Dickov Getting rid of Shez, appointing his opposite in Penney and then finding someone with some of the better qualities of both Dickov (and GT) Getting rid of Moore for the wrong reasons, then getting rid of Penney for the right ones SC could have done better, but he could have done worse, but at least when they realise what their mistakes have been they have learned from them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 really? would you like to hazard a guess at the value of all the land the TTA own? ps,its a LOT. PPS,the club has ZERO assets so its the FANS who are going to lose. Why don't you put numbers to it yourself, if possible using capital letters? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boundaryblue80 Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 (edited) I'm still amazed that people really believe that it is the problem of "the last few seasons" (Moore, Moore, DP, JR, TTA, Clayton knocked down, Lookers knocked down) - utter bollocks. We have been on a downward spiral since pockets were lined and nobody had the balls to take a gamble on this club when we were in the very best position we have ever been in and are ever likely to be in again - 1991-1994. The long term future could well have been decided there and then with some foresight and investment, we may well be receiving some of this inflated 'bunce' that the likes of your Doncaster, Barnsley and Scunthorpe are now regularly receiving - we saw neither. Despite the failure of a new ground, a promoted side, a redeveloped BP - To spend £14million pounds and seemingly get fook all in return and receive countless amounts of critics along the way, if SC does walk at the end of the season, biting the hand that has fed us for the last few years may truly be a mistake. 2 things...This £14m figure...it is a very one-sided loaded figure...whilst I agree they haven't received £14m in their tenure with us, throwing out we've spent £14m is the same :censored:e we're use to from the PR machine. I could list the incomes (the Everton/Man City/Playoffs etc, the TV games, the sales etc) but it'd be a pointless exercise as too many aren't interested in it. They won't be losing a lot once they leave...buying us was a business gamble...if I set up a company and it goes tits up, can I expect my money back? Only way is if I sell it on...they've been unlucky on certain apsects (housing market/economy) but their mistakes have been costly too. The 2nd thing...David Brierley didn't have £14m when he was Chairman...infact, he didn't have a pot to piss in...in essence, there's your miracle worker! I'd rate him in the "Excellent"/"Very Good" category in comparison as we steadied a sinking ship as we nosedived 2 divisions beforehand...and unfortunately Corney doesn't come close to that benchmark. But if he stays around and finds the answer, then he will. He criticises the public for not coming and keeping the faith, then claims in the press yesterday that he isn't bothering either. Strange. I've never said he doesn't want us to succeed. But at times, he seriously isn't helping with bad ideas (Failsworth), scrapped plans (sacking half-decent managers), dummy-spitting antics and allowing the club to be a commerical disaster. And for those who say it's Hardy that's the problem...well Corney is the guys boss...so that one lays at his door too! Edited February 6, 2011 by boundaryblue80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 2 things...This £14m figure...it is a very one-sided loaded figure...whilst I agree they haven't received £14m in their tenure with us, throwing out we've spent £14m is the same :censored:e we're use to from the PR machine. I could list the incomes (the Everton/Man City/Playoffs etc, the TV games, the sales etc) but it'd be a pointless exercise as too many aren't interested in it. They won't be losing a lot once they leave...buying us was a business gamble...if I set up a company and it goes tits up, can I expect my money back? Only way is if I sell it on...they've been unlucky on certain apsects (housing market/economy) but their mistakes have been costly too. The 2nd thing...David Brierley didn't have £14m when he was Chairman...infact, he didn't have a pot to piss in...in essence, there's your miracle worker! I'd rate him in the "Excellent"/"Very Good" category in comparison as we steadied a sinking ship as we nosedived 2 divisions beforehand...and unfortunately Corney doesn't come close to that benchmark. But if he stays around and finds the answer, then he will. He criticises the public for not coming and keeping the faith, then claims in the press yesterday that he isn't bothering either. Strange. I've never said he doesn't want us to succeed. But at times, he seriously isn't helping with bad ideas (Failsworth), scrapped plans (sacking half-decent managers), dummy-spitting antics and allowing the club to be a commerical disaster. And for those who say it's Hardy that's the problem...well Corney is the guys boss...so that one lays at his door too! Well said... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 The club has made many mistakes since 2004, but I'd like to see those on here who like to blame individuals for that do any better themselves. I like Simon Corney alot, but I don't think I can rate his overall performance higher than average. If we were rating his tenacity and commitment that score would be much higher. The irony is that his (and Blitz and Gazaal's) biggest mistake has been listening to the fans too much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
futchers briefs Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 (edited) And for those who say it's Hardy that's the problem...well Corney is the guys boss...so that one lays at his door too! Know cock all about the job he's done for the club for the best part of 3 decades either, as I'm quite sure that without him we'd have been up the creek a while ago. The rest of your post..... I'm not necessarily criticising the board at the time (20 years ago), but healthy investment or promotion of the club in the right way at that time, would have given us the chance of long term stability. As it is we're here, as we are - Let's see. And just as an addition - how the hell can anyone rate somebody doing something, when they've no idea what REALLY goes on day to day and what is involved, despite thinking they all do! Continue with your Judge and Jury. Edited February 6, 2011 by futchers briefs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
latic12345 Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 2 things...This £14m figure... Wasn't there a figure of £4m of Director loans talked about? To those who believe that £14m is the figure, do you really believe they have put £10m in cash? I don't know what the numbers are. I'd hazard a guess that because the economy has fallen off a cliff their investment and project hasn't come off. However, they have also had some benefits to owning the club: It was talked about a few months ago that the club funded the planning application for the land behind the Chaddy (at c.£400k) yet this is land owned by Brassbank. This allowed Brassbank to remain dormant. Very useful for tax purposes. They have a business losing money. They also have business making money. Another very advantageous tax position. I'm not saying they are bad people. I think they've done a good job. I just think that to believe they are doing this, and have done this, for the good of the club, and not for some potential self interest, is a little naive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddog Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 erm,which part are you referring to? the debt?the stadium?the lookers? please elaborate.. I just think sc's interest in Latics is hanging by a thread, and I think it's a bit silly slagging him off on a message board - very dangerous game. If I was him, and read some of the stuff on this thread, I'd pack my bags and my money and leave the club high and dry. As someone else said, it's like biting the hand that feeds you. Not saying he hasn't made mistakes, I just don't think now is the time to be dissecting them where SC can read it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singe Posted February 6, 2011 Author Share Posted February 6, 2011 Wasn't there a figure of £4m of Director loans talked about? To those who believe that £14m is the figure, do you really believe they have put £10m in cash? I don't know what the numbers are. I'd hazard a guess that because the economy has fallen off a cliff their investment and project hasn't come off. However, they have also had some benefits to owning the club: It was talked about a few months ago that the club funded the planning application for the land behind the Chaddy (at c.£400k) yet this is land owned by Brassbank. This allowed Brassbank to remain dormant. Very useful for tax purposes. They have a business losing money. They also have business making money. Another very advantageous tax position. I'm not saying they are bad people. I think they've done a good job. I just think that to believe they are doing this, and have done this, for the good of the club, and not for some potential self interest, is a little naive. With the money they put in every month (overdraft) of 20k-50k per month at various times, and the stadium buy back at £7m, and the number of players paid off I can easily beleive the £10m and £14m. Some of us don't know we're born. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobOAFC Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 2 things...This £14m figure...it is a very one-sided loaded figure...whilst I agree they haven't received £14m in their tenure with us, throwing out we've spent £14m is the same :censored:e we're use to from the PR machine. I could list the incomes (the Everton/Man City/Playoffs etc, the TV games, the sales etc) but it'd be a pointless exercise as too many aren't interested in it. They won't be losing a lot once they leave...buying us was a business gamble...if I set up a company and it goes tits up, can I expect my money back? Only way is if I sell it on...they've been unlucky on certain apsects (housing market/economy) but their mistakes have been costly too. Agreed. £14m figure includes purchasing the club and BP not sure if it includes purchasing Lancaster Club land? Received over a million in selling players.. + all the money from City, Bolton, Everton FA Cup games.. and play-off games.. along with other tv money e.g. leeds game on tv when we wore our pink shirts.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boboafc Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 He could have bailed long ago and been thought of just as much as he is now. So, V.Good. well said agree 100% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
latic12345 Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 With the money they put in every month (overdraft) of 20k-50k per month at various times, and the stadium buy back at £7m, and the number of players paid off I can easily beleive the £10m and £14m. Some of us don't know we're born. I'm not saying I know what the number is here. I can feasibly believe a number of £10m plus. However, when LL and Latics & England went into the club I seem to remember that they saw Directors loans of £4m. The stadium buy back cost them £3.5m. This is not an expense related to the club. They bought it, they own it, and they will reap the benefits once they have sold it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeP Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 I think it's fair to say Corney (and TTA) will get back a lot of cash once they sell the land BP is on. However, the value of the land must be going down, day by day. Increasing day by day, however, is the amount Corney has spent on the club. Therefore, credit must go to Corney for sticking around and trying to get Latics on an even footing, because he's going to make nothing out of the club financially and, it seems, the longer the club is solvent, the more money it will cost him. Your stereo typical "nasty" Alan Sugar businessman type would have thought "sod this" long ago. Corney wouldn't get an "excellent" rating from me, because some of his decisions (through no fault of his own!) haven't turned out well. He certainly deserves a "very good" rating, though.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 However, the value of the land must be going down, day by day. Why ? If anything I would expect it to rise... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 (edited) Increasing day by day, however, is the amount Corney has spent on the club. I was under the impression that Blitz was pumping money in and not Corney if comments on OWTB are to be believed. Therefore, credit must go to Corney for sticking around and trying to get Latics on an even footing, because he's going to make nothing out of the club financially and, it seems, the longer the club is solvent, the more money it will cost him. Does Corney draw a salary ? Edited February 6, 2011 by oafc0000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeP Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 I was under the impression that Blitz was pumping money in and not Corney if comments on OWTB are to be believed. His interview on Latics player would suggest otherwise. Does Corney draw a salary ? What, pay himself? Was under the impression he was pretty much bankrolling the club.... Re The value of the land - not sure, don't really follow land prices, so I might have misjudged that. Would just assume it's still suffering the effects of the recession, though.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opinions4u Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 I was under the impression that Blitz was pumping money in and not Corney if comments on OWTB are to be believed. Apparently a recent interview said this isn't the case. If I understand correctly, any increase in the club's debt is currently being plugged by Corney himself. Does Corney draw a salary ? I would think so. But I don't know so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBosch Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 Why ? If anything I would expect it to rise... do you know something we don't? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 do you know something we don't? Other than the general eb and flow on house / land princes no... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 Apparently a recent interview said this isn't the case. If I understand correctly, any increase in the club's debt is currently being plugged by Corney himself. Oh right... That is news to me... Many on here thought he wasn't a "money man"... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBosch Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 (edited) Other than the general eb and flow on house / land princes no... flow? Edited February 6, 2011 by HarryBosch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opinions4u Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 (edited) Oh right... That is news to me... Many on here thought he wasn't a "money man"... I'd be pretty sure that we've cut our cloth accordingly, relying on favours in the loan market, younger players on lower salaries and freezing out the higher paid players so that although they draw their basic salaries they lose their appearance fees which are often significant. I think a lot of £1,500 a week guys are out and a lot of £500 a week guys are in. Paying up the contracts won't be cheap, but I bet their appearance money wass more than most of the remaining squad earn in basic and appearance fees combined. There is, of course, Ackey's ":censored: or bust" theory which suggests that if the season doesn't end with a windfall from promotion or transfer we're in trouble. Sell Chris Taylor, plug a gap could be the solution to that. Perhaps getting Kieron Lee on a contract beyond June would provide another asset for the club ... dunno. I suspect the books aren't far from balancing. But if the business needs to spend £500k (made up figure) to get a safety certificate, or £750k on consultants for the next stage of Failsworth / New Stadium, or £3m cleaning contaminated land at another site, or stick up a new stand where the Lookers was for £5m then reading between the lines I don't think there's a hope in hell of Corney being able fund that. All speculation from me. I don't for a second know the truth. Edited February 6, 2011 by opinions4u Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 I'd be pretty sure that we've cut our cloth accordingly, relying on favours in the loan market, younger players on lower salaries and freezing out the higher paid players so that although they draw their basic salaries they lose their appearance fees which are often significant. I think a lot of £1,500 a week guys are out and a lot of £500 a week guys are in. Paying up the contracts won't be cheap, but I bet their appearance money wass more than most of the remaining squad earn in basic and appearance fees combined. There is, of course, Ackey's ":censored: or bust" theory which suggests that if the season doesn't end with a windfall from promotion or transfer we're in trouble. Sell Chris Taylor, plug a gap could be the solution to that. Perhaps getting Kieron Lee on a contract beyond June would provide another asset for the club ... dunno. I suspect the books aren't far from balancing. But if the business needs to spend £500k (made up figure) to get a safety certificate, or £750k on consultants for the next stage of Failsworth / New Stadium, or £3m cleaning contaminated land at another site, or stick up a new stand where the Lookers was for £5m then reading between the lines I don't think there's a hope in hell of Corney being able fund that. All speculation from me. I don't for a second know the truth. Aren't there Football league or F.A grants any more for redeveloping current stadiums ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opinions4u Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 (edited) Aren't there Football league or F.A grants any more for redeveloping current stadiums ? The Football Trust used to use some of the proceeds of pools money for such enterprise. No idea what the current state of affairs is, but I suspect the National Lottery will have significantly reduced available funds. EDIT: It was superceded by the Football Foundation. Looks to be very community focused. http://www.footballfoundation.org.uk/ This suggests that there are grants for Football League clubs. Maximum £750k. http://www.footballfoundation.org.uk/apply...ent-fund-grant/ Edited February 6, 2011 by opinions4u Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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