Mellor or Black?

[oafcmad09]

Mellor is a quality player but is definitely not a left back in my opinion. Chris Taylor is an attacking player. With Mellor at left back, Taylor is having to pull back to cover the left back position. At least Black is actually a left back and Taylor can go on attacking, like he should. Mellor is a very good midfielder. Black is a quite good left back who can stick to the position.

 

So what do you think?

Edited November 5, 2011 by oafcmad09

[LT_SMASH]

Not understood this for a while, Mellor certainly can play football.......just not at left back. He is making mistakes that are really costing us at the mo. If we're going to play him I'd like to see him alot higher up the pitch

[oafcmad09]

Not understood this for a while, Mellor certainly can play football.......just not at left back. He is making mistakes that are really costing us at the mo. If we're going to play him I'd like to see him alot higher up the pitch

I completely agree.

[HarryBosch]

Mellor

 

Black will be appearing at Bower Fold or in Hollyoaks within 3 years (I hope he proves me wrong)

[opinions4u]

 

Black will be appearing at Bower Fold or in Hollyoaks within 3 years (I hope he proves me wrong)

But perhaps he's still a better full back than Mellor.

 

I've never bought the "Taylor should play on the right as it's his best position argument" but there is a case for Mellor playing further forwards, and moving Taylor to accommodate this could be good for the team.

[TheBigDog]

But perhaps he's still a better full back than Mellor.

 

I've never bought the "Taylor should play on the right as it's his best position argument" but there is a case for Mellor playing further forwards, and moving Taylor to accommodate this could be good for the team.

Mellor will not be a full back longer term - he is a decent player but lacks the positional discipline to play at the back.

Also - is it me or does he seem to lack pace? He is a biggish lad but maybe needs to work on his speed training?

[davebuckley06]

He just can't defend unfortunately his positioning is aweful. It's a shame because he is good footballer and will be very good in a few years. Needs to be moved up the pitch. Stick him left wing an let him get crosses into the box from wide left, something we havnt really had since David eyers left.

[GlossopLatic]

Mellor will not be a full back longer term - he is a decent player but lacks the positional discipline to play at the back.

Also - is it me or does he seem to lack pace? He is a biggish lad but maybe needs to work on his speed training?

 

I disagree with this longer term he is a left back I believe the positional sense and discipline that you rightly point out are a weakness in his game are something that will come with age and experience, but for his sake he needs to learn them sooner rather than later.

 

I think we also need to wrap him in cotton wool abit so perhaps with black now fit we should consider resting him for the next few games lets not forget he's still 18 so has alot to learn just yet but he does have all the natrual qualities to be a fine rampaging full back.

 

The way teams play these days full backs are almost played like wingers, and are asked to provide the width. If you look at how man city play they have Glichy and Richards who push on heavily as the likes of David Silva who might start as a winger more often than not comes inside and gets in the gaps which creates the space out wide for the full backs to push on. Teams don't play rigid 4-4-2 formations anymore their is alot of interchanging and fluidity.

[rosa]

I think we also need to wrap him in cotton wool abit so perhaps with black now fit we should consider resting him for the next few games lets not forget he's still 18 so has alot to learn just yet but he does have all the natrual qualities to be a fine rampaging full back.

Agree, he's getting targeted by the opposition as the weak link at the back every week which can't be good for him, prob best to take him out of the firing line now that Black's fit. He was superb v Franchise but he's looked increasingly out of his depth since then.

[Roger Ritchie]

Mellor is a far better footballer

 

Black is a better defender

[slystallone]

Not understood this for a while, Mellor certainly can play football.......just not at left back. He is making mistakes that are really costing us at the mo. If we're going to play him I'd like to see him alot higher up the pitch

+1. (it may be more +'s by now but i've not read further down)

 

Interesting one this for me - I'm usually a fan of players having to earn their places back / the current player keeping the shirt unless they have a mare / injured etc BUT, I can't help but feel that as soon as Paul Black was back fit, he should have been back in at LB.

 

Mellor is a real young prospect - he has tremendous potential, you can see that; but he isn't going to have a career as a left back; and the longer he's played there the more damage we're doing to him I'd say. Whenever there's a chance for him to break forward, he shows his ability going forward. Whenever he's asked to defend, he shows all his deficiencies as a defender - and teams are now targeting him.

 

He, for me, should be played in the CM. He is a big lad, likes a tackle, looks to have decent fitness levels and he would add a really nice balance in there being naturally left footed. His lack of acceleration and his '1 paced-ness' wouldn't been shown up as much in the centre too; as much as it would out wide.

 

Paul Black is no world beater, and he too has his flaws as a player. But for me, he is another good prospect & will have decent career as a LB. That's the difference for me - Black is already a LB playing as a LB. Mellor is a young lad playing out of position, in a position where long term he won't end up playing.

 

Black at LB and Mellor in the CM at the expense of the ineffective & ineffectual Tom Adeyami on Tuesday night please.

[Oh Heck C-Beck]

Am I alone in thinking teams target Black just as much as Mellor?

 

My memories are of Black being a pretty poor left back who gets taken on very easily and usually gives the ball away when in possession aimlessly punting it down field. He also rarely looks to attack the opposition and is pretty bad at crossing.

 

As you can see no the biggest fan of Paul Black. Don't get me wrong Mellor could do with improving defensively especially in positioning but overall think he is a much better player than Black will every be from what I have seen. I can only see Paul Black dropping down in standard, after Oldham and Mellor going up in standard, but would love to be proved wrong!

[beag_teeets]

Black does get targeted and he too is only a young lad still learning the position, not a seasoned pro with 250+ games at full back worth of experience to call on. Both of the lads deserve to be cut some slack as neither of them are going to be giving masterclasses at full back each week and will drop the odd clanger.

 

What they both need is greater protection from the man in front and alongside, if Taylor has to cover them more then that cuts down his effectiveness going forward and if the centreback has to cover them then that leaves gaps.

 

It's a funny old game.

[BP1960]

Black does get targeted and he too is only a young lad still learning the position, not a seasoned pro with 250+ games at full back worth of experience to call on. Both of the lads deserve to be cut some slack as neither of them are going to be giving masterclasses at full back each week and will drop the odd clanger.

 

What they both need is greater protection from the man in front and alongside, if Taylor has to cover them more then that cuts down his effectiveness going forward and if the centreback has to cover them then that leaves gaps.

 

It's a funny old game.

 

Mellor is the more skilful, but Black is quicker and has the edge in defensive qualities at the moment

[slystallone]

Mellor is the more skilful, but Black is quicker and has the edge in defensive qualities at the moment

I thought that even though Black looked rusty last night - he should why he should be the LB for us. Defensively, he knows more of what to do, where to position himself and how to react than young Mellor does. He's played the role longer; even though he's a youngster himself.

He wasn't perfect last night - far from, but was an improvement defensively on what we've had whilst Mellor has been there.

 

I thought PD missed a trick last night - instead of dropping Mellor, I'd have switched him into CM at the expense of Tom A; who - bullet shot apart was once again anonymous and flattered to deceive.

[beag_teeets]

I thought that even though Black looked rusty last night - he should why he should be the LB for us. Defensively, he knows more of what to do, where to position himself and how to react than young Mellor does. He's played the role longer; even though he's a youngster himself.

He wasn't perfect last night - far from, but was an improvement defensively on what we've had whilst Mellor has been there.

 

I thought PD missed a trick last night - instead of dropping Mellor, I'd have switched him into CM at the expense of Tom A; who - bullet shot apart was once again anonymous and flattered to deceive.

 

 

Disagree, it is beginning to bug me this anonymous and ghost label that gets applied to our central midfielders, McDonald, Whitaker, Tom A (Easier than spelling it!) I watched Tom for a while last night, he was busy getting in their way, breaking up play, keeping the ball moving and letting other players play their game. Furman had an absolute stormer for me, he covered every blade of grass, put loads of tackles in, won most of them, also kept the ball moving and was our heartbeat. Not sure Furman would have been able to have been all action if Tom hadn't been next to him mopping up. Not comparing Tom to some of the greats but the water carrier role is an essential part of a team, can't remember who said it but some one said that each team needs a mix of water carriers and artists, too many of either and the team fails. Not every player can do the mazy run, beat 6 players and slot it in and not every player can win the ball.

 

I'd have like to have seen Winchester get a game in the middle last night, not sure why he hasn't featured recently? Good game for Mellor to sit out, young kid, can't do Sat-Tues every week, let him put his feet up and recover from any knocks.

 

Black did show a fair bit of rust, dwelled on the ball a few times when an early cross was called for but this is understandable after a period out. It is unfair to compare these two lads though as Black is further along his development and has more professional games under his belt, going forward Mellor does offer a little more, perhaps because he hasn't developed the fear that a lot of players develop or perhaps that he has more skill than Black on the Ball? But in a team with Taylor, Morais, Kuqi, Scapuzzi, Furman and Simpson I would like to see my full back stopping the other team putting the ball in our net a bit more than being involved in putting the ball in their net.

[Break The Silence]

I thought that even though Black looked rusty last night - he should why he should be the LB for us. Defensively, he knows more of what to do, where to position himself and how to react than young Mellor does. He's played the role longer; even though he's a youngster himself.

He wasn't perfect last night - far from, but was an improvement defensively on what we've had whilst Mellor has been there.

 

I thought PD missed a trick last night - instead of dropping Mellor, I'd have switched him into CM at the expense of Tom A; who - bullet shot apart was once again anonymous and flattered to deceive.

 

Have to disagree with that Sly. I'm far from being Tom A's biggest fan but I thought he did well last night. He was strong, full of running and won plenty of tackles and, but for the crossbar and a wonder save from their keeper at the end, could easily have scored twice. He's not, and is never going to be, the next Diego Maradonna but he does have plenty of decent attributes (at this level) which people seem to enjoy completely ignoring for some reason.....

[slystallone]

Disagree, it is beginning to bug me this anonymous and ghost label that gets applied to our central midfielders, McDonald, Whitaker, Tom A (Easier than spelling it!) I watched Tom for a while last night, he was busy getting in their way, breaking up play, keeping the ball moving and letting other players play their game. Furman had an absolute stormer for me, he covered every blade of grass, put loads of tackles in, won most of them, also kept the ball moving and was our heartbeat. Not sure Furman would have been able to have been all action if Tom hadn't been next to him mopping up. Not comparing Tom to some of the greats but the water carrier role is an essential part of a team, can't remember who said it but some one said that each team needs a mix of water carriers and artists, too many of either and the team fails. Not every player can do the mazy run, beat 6 players and slot it in and not every player can win the ball.

 

I'd have like to have seen Winchester get a game in the middle last night, not sure why he hasn't featured recently? Good game for Mellor to sit out, young kid, can't do Sat-Tues every week, let him put his feet up and recover from any knocks.

 

Black did show a fair bit of rust, dwelled on the ball a few times when an early cross was called for but this is understandable after a period out. It is unfair to compare these two lads though as Black is further along his development and has more professional games under his belt, going forward Mellor does offer a little more, perhaps because he hasn't developed the fear that a lot of players develop or perhaps that he has more skill than Black on the Ball? But in a team with Taylor, Morais, Kuqi, Scapuzzi, Furman and Simpson I would like to see my full back stopping the other team putting the ball in our net a bit more than being involved in putting the ball in their net.

 

 

Have to disagree with that Sly. I'm far from being Tom A's biggest fan but I thought he did well last night. He was strong, full of running and won plenty of tackles and, but for the crossbar and a wonder save from their keeper at the end, could easily have scored twice. He's not, and is never going to be, the next Diego Maradonna but he does have plenty of decent attributes (at this level) which people seem to enjoy completely ignoring for some reason.....

 

Oooooh, some football debate - cool!!

 

Beag. I take your point on the water carrier / more creative combo in the central midfield. It's a combo I like & want my team to have. 1 player to sit deeper; to mop up, hassle, harry, harass & tackle - the other 1 to play a more advanced role; hoping to link the attack, pick a pass or shot.

We have that combo at the club - it just wasn't available last night. Jimbo Wes is the former, Furman the latter in my analogies above. Tom A is neither IMO.

 

Last night, I lost count of the number of times he (Tom) was caught out doing neither role - he wasn't sitting & screening, but he wasn't being the father forward player at the expense of sitting either - in effect, he was just 'there' - somewhere around the middle-ish of the pitch, running around but not really adding value defensively or attack wise.

I'm not a fan of the term 'ghost' to describe a player; which is why I haven't used it. I've said he was anonymous; which in my opinion - he was for real large chunks of the game.

 

I'm not on a witch-hunt here, it’s a message board and people have different opinions - and hopefully this can go on to be a good debate on various player merits? I just don't happen to see what he brings to party for us - as all I want / expect of a player coming in is to add value above & beyond what we already had / have.

 

Break the Silence, obviously I'm not expecting the next Maradonna - none of us are. I just happen to think that he doesn't really show any discernable improvement over either Carl Winchester or David Mellor that leads me to think he's a better bet than them. I don't think we'd have got a worse performance out of either of our own young lads than we got out of Tom last night, so both short & long term wise - what benefit was it in playing him? He's not our player, I doubt very much he will ever be our player so why get a below par performance out of someone else's young player, rather than one of our own contracted players? This isn't a pop at the loan system here; as I agree with it - it's about player ability & merit. I really don't think Tom A is any better than we already have, I don't see what extra he brings to the table and as such I don't see why he's playing. That's my opinion on it, over to you…..

 

debate on!!!

[beag_teeets]

No worries, your post was just the one that broke the camels back, it has been niggling me for some time.

 

We were very, very narrow last night, our play was very compressed in the middle leaving very little space for any of our central players, plus massively reducing the options of the man in possession of the ball. At times all Tom and Furman could do was just be there, we were set up for Taylor and Scapuzzi to do all the fancy stuff.

 

I fully agree that despite thinking that Tom did ok, he was unlucky not to come away with a brace last night I would have liked to see Winchester or Mellor there. I would actually have rested Furman for last night as there was no need to risk him getting injured and a centre mid of Winchester and Mellor is a bit young, one of those plus Tom is also a bit of a risk but considering we could have got about 8 last night a risk that would probably still have recorded a win.

[slystallone]

No worries, your post was just the one that broke the camels back, it has been niggling me for some time.

 

We were very, very narrow last night, our play was very compressed in the middle leaving very little space for any of our central players, plus massively reducing the options of the man in possession of the ball. At times all Tom and Furman could do was just be there, we were set up for Taylor and Scapuzzi to do all the fancy stuff.

 

I fully agree that despite thinking that Tom did ok, he was unlucky not to come away with a brace last night I would have liked to see Winchester or Mellor there. I would actually have rested Furman for last night as there was no need to risk him getting injured and a centre mid of Winchester and Mellor is a bit young, one of those plus Tom is also a bit of a risk but considering we could have got about 8 last night a risk that would probably still have recorded a win.

At times I'd go along with that, with both Taylor & Luca cutting in-field - but I can think of a number of occasions where there was more than 10 / 15 yards+ of open grass to work into for us - but we opted to pass either backwards (to JYM who then turned and went back to Gerrard - arrghh!!!) or sideways to Lee or Black. It needed a drive forwards - but it took Furman a while to jump onto this; and Tom didn’t really do it at all.

 

I just think we can file him under 'another average loanee from a bigger club' section of our history & move on. I don't want him to extend for the rest of the season, I just don't rate him or see what he brings over & above what we already have. Wes & Furman as 1st choice with Mellor & Winchester in reserve when needed is more than; more than fine for me IMO.

[BP1960]

I thought that even though Black looked rusty last night - he should why he should be the LB for us. Defensively, he knows more of what to do, where to position himself and how to react than young Mellor does. He's played the role longer; even though he's a youngster himself.

He wasn't perfect last night - far from, but was an improvement defensively on what we've had whilst Mellor has been there.

 

I thought PD missed a trick last night - instead of dropping Mellor, I'd have switched him into CM at the expense of Tom A; who - bullet shot apart was once again anonymous and flattered to deceive.

 

I have heard it said Adeyemi is good at covering space, I am waiting for the TV pundits to latch on to this brilliant description of someone who goes long spells without touching the ball.

[lancy lad]

Have to disagree with the criticism of Adeyami.

 

While I agree that he is far from the finished article, he never stops running and he is trying to get involved and win the ball back constantly.

 

As for Black, I hope he proves me wrong (and granted he may have just been rusty last night) but I dont see a lad fighting tooth and nail to win a place in the team, which is a shame.

 

Just not sure he "wants it" badly enough.

 

Just saying like!

[RobOAFC]

Don't agree with the critcism of Adeyemi, he never stopped running in CM with Furman last night, just did the basic - press press press, win the ball, simple pass to more attacking players such as Kuqi Simpson Taylor Scapuzzi. Not sure what has happened to Winchester, but while he's not playing i hope he's in the gym bulking up a bit, looks to lightweight in a physical league, whereas Adeyemi has more to him, and recently has been getting stuck in a lot more. In my opinion, Adeyemi is playing better than Winchester has this season in CM and at the moment, is earning the spot in CM next to Furman whilst Wes is out injured. (Not mentioned about Mellor in CM as only seen him play in CM for a small amount of time Vs Blackpool in pre-season).