oafc1955 Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 (edited) No doubt we have good youngsters at the club but they must be so frustrated at their lack of opportunities. Fulham must have seen something in Winchester to offer £300k and Mellor looked a good prospect when scoring that free kick in a friendly last season. They are both attacking midfielders, just the position in which we are lacking, yet when they do get a chance he puts them in at full back Exeter at home last season springs to mind..... 3 nil up I think, Winchester comes in at fullback and gets murdered and we almost lose the game 4 v 3.......that must have done his confidence a power of good!!! I am convinced Mellor and Winchester could have been established 1st teamers by now if they had been given more game time in their true positions. We will probably lose Wabara Baxter and Derbyshire in January and they will be replaced by more loanees yet again.....Dickov keeps saying that he's trying to build something here.........I don't see it!! When the inevitable happens and he does eventually leave I fear we will be no farther forward than when he arrived. If we are to continue with this conveyor belt of loanees coming in at each and every transfer window I would rather Dickov went now and get a Dario Gradi type in who will give young talent a chance. We have a near new team at the beginning of each season who have no affiliation whatsoever with the club, have no real connection with the fans, and as a unit we still consistently struggle at the wrong end of the table. 'But we have no money 'someone will say......... Well yes, that's very true, but I would rather we struggle along using our own home grown players than with some other teams cast offs and 'hot prospects' A new approach is needed, something has to change, and sooner, rather than later! Edited November 27, 2012 by oafc1955 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 This is no different to any other management we've had in recent years. If they were good enough they would play. Mellor and Millar went on loan below the conference level, Smith hardly set the division below on fire last season before his injury. If we had another Chris Taylor or a Neil Eardley on the books they would be in the team. Agreed. We've had so many bright young hopes during our time in this division and precious few have made any sort of career while msot of those who have done have been at the same level or lower Thinking the likes of Carlos Roca, the McNivens, Andy Holt etc.etc. This is also why I laugh out loud at those people who seem to be convinced that we always sell our assets on the cheap without any sort of evidence. Every club has the odd Mark Tierney or two to look back on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaticsPete Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 Agreed. We've had so many bright young hopes during our time in this division and precious few have made any sort of career while msot of those who have done have been at the same level or lower Thinking the likes of Carlos Roca, the McNivens, Andy Holt etc.etc. This is also why I laugh out loud at those people who seem to be convinced that we always sell our assets on the cheap without any sort of evidence. Every club has the odd Mark Tierney or two to look back on. Hear hear. Too many random sticks are being picked up and used to beat PD/SC/Neil Joy/Alan Hardy/ the club and this seems like another one that doesn't have any roots in reality. Youngsters are given the chance ...but because they are understandably far from the finished article they often struggle. So does management (whoever it is) keep them in and results suffer/don't improve or does it use players of more experience or young loanees with more quality - such as Wabara? Can't see the benefits of throwing kids in just for the sake of it - and as Heck and Dave Og say - it's part and parcel of football under most regimes. We've done well in getting good money for our people like Eaves, Spencer, Philiskirk. And if the kids like Mellor, Winchester etc are so good, and have the potebtial thast, apparently loads of people other than PD can see, no doubt there'll be a queue of clubs wanting to take them on loan ....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyPimp Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 In defence of our previous and current management teams, maybe TP is too nice and the lads coming through aren't fully prepared for the real world of professional football. It's just a thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Latics_Fanatic Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 Intergrating kids into first team football needs to be a process, a process that would take at least 3 seasons to turn into something useful, this way, we would have a team that have always played togetherand with a few experienced additions could become a real force as you've already brought your Mellors and Winchesters up to standard in the 3 season period. Unfortunatley - managers don't get that much time, unless you're Paul Dickov, who has failed to manage his resources properly in his time here - as have most of our previous managers who have chosen the loan market over trying the kids out. I'm always one who thinks of what is happening here an now but there has to be the element of preparing yourself for 2/3 seasons down the line! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaticsPete Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 How should PD have done things differently with the youngsters? Can't see the clamour for giving youth a chance on Saturday and playing Liam Jacob in goal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Latics_Fanatic Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 How should PD have done things differently with the youngsters? Can't see the clamour for giving youth a chance on Saturday and playing Liam Jacob in goal. More chances and opportunities for the young lads. I Mean, this is all in hindsight anyway, but, he hasn't really given them much of a chance in the 3 years here - Winchester came in and had a great game at Accrington, but then didn't get anywhere near the side until we were safe and then played brilliantly against MK Dons at Home - playing him through the months of :censored:e that we had to watch may have lifted us abit, but instead he stuck with the same old :censored:e week in week out. It's over 2 seasons ago and i'm still annoyed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBosch Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 Intergrating kids into first team football needs to be a process, a process that would take at least 3 seasons to turn into something useful, this way, we would have a team that have always played togetherand with a few experienced additions could become a real force as you've already brought your Mellors and Winchesters up to standard in the 3 season period. Unfortunatley - managers don't get that much time, unless you're Paul Dickov, who has failed to manage his resources properly in his time here - as have most of our previous managers who have chosen the loan market over trying the kids out. I'm always one who thinks of what is happening here an now but there has to be the element of preparing yourself for 2/3 seasons down the line! I think you're over thinking it. Chuck them in Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaticsPete Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 Sorry I don't see that. Winchester has played more than the two matches you mention and just hasn't looked up to it. The same with Mellor , millar .... As has been said , it has to be a gradual process and that is underway - if we'd played kids as much as some on here suggest we'd not be in this division, but the one below. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Latics_Fanatic Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 Sorry I don't see that. Winchester has played more than the two matches you mention and just hasn't looked up to it. The same with Mellor , millar .... As has been said , it has to be a gradual process and that is underway - if we'd played kids as much as some on here suggest we'd not be in this division, but the one below. I think following on from that season i agree with you, he has looked off the pace, too lightweight and to be blunt, not a professional footballer. I'm just saying that in his first season, he looked very promising and seems to have been a wasted talent - either due to management issues as discussed or other reasons, maybe the fact that he hardly ever trained with the first team because he was at college 4 days a week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaticsPete Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 Sorry to harp on ...but is there a real suggestion that on Saturday we play Jacobs, Mellor, Winchester, Millar, Hughes and Sutherland ? Oh, and Tarkowski if fit (by the way when the club is criticised for not giving youngsters a chance, he seems to be conveniently forgotten0. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Latics_Fanatic Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 I think you're over thinking it. Chuck them in Could be disasterous - it has to be done pragmatically and with a plan B if it goes tits up. Paul Dickov doesn't do plan B's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBosch Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 Sorry to harp on ...but is there a real suggestion that on Saturday we play Jacobs, Mellor, Winchester, Millar, Hughes and Sutherland ? Oh, and Tarkowski if fit (by the way when the club is criticised for not giving youngsters a chance, he seems to be conveniently forgotten0. Of course not 1 or 2 should be given a decent run though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBosch Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 Of course not 1 or 2 should be given a decent run though And in an otherwise strong lineup rather than as stop gaps to cover injury or suspension. That can't help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBosch Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 Winchester especially, we've seen him play very well several times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IceStationLatic Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 Why didn't we snap Fulham's hand off...!. Surely a massive risk, in our financial position, to say no hoping we might have someone pushing the first team by next season! I reckon that grates on SC and he's probably nudging PD about this issue. I agree Winchester still looks like a youth player, but I really thought pre-season that Mellor was ready to be another Wes in midfield. Winchester seems to be the scapegoat at times. Like when it was him whipped off at half-time against Stevenage when he'd actually played okay! It has to be noted from that game also that there seemed to be more groans in his direction, for some reason, when he made the slightest error compared with players like Furman and M'Changama? Clearly the majority of fans weren't/aren't confident in him. Maybe that has been another reason to make PD wary of throwing him in? Linked with this, his big error against Chesterfiekd in the JPT can't have helped. He apparently looked crushed with other team-mates trying to help him?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 Intergrating kids into first team football needs to be a process, a process that would take at least 3 seasons to turn into something useful, this way, we would have a team that have always played togetherand with a few experienced additions could become a real force as you've already brought your Mellors and Winchesters up to standard in the 3 season period. Unfortunatley - managers don't get that much time, unless you're Paul Dickov, who has failed to manage his resources properly in his time here - as have most of our previous managers who have chosen the loan market over trying the kids out. I'm always one who thinks of what is happening here an now but there has to be the element of preparing yourself for 2/3 seasons down the line! The Andy Ritchie era then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wardie Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 Winchester looked a great prospect, not getting a look in despite regularly playing for his country. Mellor worthy of 20 odd starts last season, really gave us an option at Chesterfield, ran the show when he came on. Not had a look in since. Brown brought from Sheff Utd, nailed on he'll be dropped again tonight. Gives Millar a very surprising one year deal, nowhere near the first team. Nowt to do with Philli, pretty much everyone that comes in under Dickov will start well then stagnate, then go backwards, because they have to play such a one dimensional game. White, Evina, Tonk, Kuqi, Simpsonetc, etc…. even Wabara has stopped pushing on and now Derbyshire has become increasingly isolated. Baxter thankfully will have moved on before Dickov squeezes it out of him, so will play with a free spirit….. I'm not talking about the last 15 years, Dave i'm talking about under Dickov - players go backwards. Eaves is scoring for fun in League 2 and will make it. Spencer and Philli were signed too early by Everton and Chelsea and didn't develop but that happens. The lads i'm talking about have proved themselves when playing in the first team that they can cut it and have a chance to be League footballers yet he doesn't trust his squad players preferring a procession of loanees and the golden 12/13 that play no matter what. As Saturday proved he would sooner play players out of position than trust one of his own young lads. Smith only got a game because Simpson was injured and even then only because his loan bid failed for Johnson. Bloody good post! You are spot-on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimsleftfoot Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 As much as we can criticise PD, he has only got a rolling contract which doesn't give him much of a mandate to develop players for the future. Theres a good chance that he won't be our manager next year, so he's only going to be bothered about the hear and now whilst we are struggling. From the clubs point of view, the priority is stand/ground redevelopment, so I can't see much investment being made into the youth setup until that box is ticked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudemedic Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 As much as we can criticise PD, he has only got a rolling contract which doesn't give him much of a mandate to develop players for the future. Theres a good chance that he won't be our manager next year, so he's only going to be bothered about the hear and now whilst we are struggling. From the clubs point of view, the priority is stand/ground redevelopment, so I can't see much investment being made into the youth setup until that box is ticked. Don't know about that, our u16s (I think) gave united's u16s a tonking earlier in the season. Think we might be saving money in our youth/development budget to keep a lot of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Latics_Fanatic Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 The Andy Ritchie era then? Not lucky enough to remember that era - he was sacked the month after i started coming! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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