BP1960 Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 (edited) ....30+ years ago then BP? Fooball has changed. Whilst i obviously want to see winning football, i dont want to watch a big & brutal long ball set of dark ages players. It's been very interesting listening to Stoke fans since Mark Hughes has come in. They have upmost respect for Pulis in getting them to where they are now, but the lions share haven't enjoyed it as much as they should due to the style of play and type of players they've been watching. Look - i don't think anyone on here can question your credentials from your years of working in & around the game, but - it has changed. And, your constant posts always looking for a stick to beat LJ with are becoming more than a little tedious. It's coming. The win will come. The players we have are good players; better than we have had for a number of years. It just needs time. Constant negative posts of the same vein week after week just aren't what's needed... Chin up, tomorrows another day eh? I didn't say I wanted brutal football, but this no division no division for a team overloaded with huff and puff lightweights,and this manager is IMO doing exactly the same as the last one. Personally, I disagree about your views on old time football, it's a simple game made difficult by too many modern day coaches singing from the same theoretical hymn sheets. These days a game can't go by without the someone on the sidelines showing rafts of pages to the manager, no wonder everyone is confused. And are you telling me an Alan Groves wouldn't have ripped this league apart ?.. I never saw anyone tell him how to play. Edited September 28, 2013 by BP1960 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slystallone Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 ...but BP, if it was as simple as reverting to old, out dated methods from 30+ years ago - why aren't all the sides, in every division going back in time and adopting those methods? 2013/2014 football is not the same as 1980/1981 football. Tell Barcelona and Spain that you won't have success with 2 defensive midfielders and lightweight players. They can show you all their medals an trophies... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 (edited) ...but BP, if it was as simple as reverting to old, out dated methods from 30+ years ago - why aren't all the sides, in every division going back in time and adopting those methods? 2013/2014 football is not the same as 1980/1981 football. Tell Barcelona and Spain that you won't have success with 2 defensive midfielders and lightweight players. They can show you all their medals an trophies... But Barcelona players although small aren't lightweight, you don't see them pushed off the ball, and their holding midfielders can also create if needed, at Division one level you won't get that. Methods go in and out out of fashion, for instance the famous Hungarian and Dutch national teams played systems no one had seen before, but who is to say with the right players the tactics won't be seen again ?. Liverpool tried 3 centre backs the other day, this was frowned upon as going back to the old days by some pundits, in fact its a simple formation that could well work for the Latics as they have the personnel on the books. Edited September 28, 2013 by BP1960 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazlatic Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 ...but BP, if it was as simple as reverting to old, out dated methods from 30+ years ago - why aren't all the sides, in every division going back in time and adopting those methods? 2013/2014 football is not the same as 1980/1981 football. Tell Barcelona and Spain that you won't have success with 2 defensive midfielders and lightweight players. They can show you all their medals an trophies... I would say top level football is very different to the League One version. We have to beat what is in front of us not look to emulate the elite who play with 90% technical ability and 10% blood and guts. At our level those qualities are quite the reverse - ask Liverpool after the defeat at BP last season... Most teams in our league see the will to scrap for 3 points as a given. We have to match that in order to play our football. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneSizeFitz Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 But Barcelona players although small aren't lightweight, you don't see them pushed off the ball, and their holding midfielders can also create if needed, at Division one level you won't get that. Methods go in and out out of fashion, for instance the famous Hungarian and Dutch national teams played systems no one had seen before, but who is to say with the right players the tactics won't be seen again ?. Liverpool tried 3 centre backs the other day, this was frowned upon as going back to the old days by some pundits, in fact its a simple formation that could well work for the Latics as they have the personnel on the books. I'd put both Wes and Smith in the 'small but not lightweight' category too, though. They certainly aren't weak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oh Heck C-Beck Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 From listening to lattice player there is very fine margins between success and failure this season. If we are lightweight in midfield I am surprised we are dominating possession. To me it sounds like poor finishing, bad final balls and individual errors are costing us not necessarily tactics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 I'd put both Wes and Smith in the 'small but not lightweight' category too, though. They certainly aren't weak. All the wingers are though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 (edited) I will tell you this, should the manager be given enough money to buy players in January to get out of this division the majority signed would be quick and as hard as nails. Edited September 28, 2013 by BP1960 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewBlue Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 (edited) We need a settled team... ...fans complain about not having a settled team... ...but have no patience whilst we're 16th in the league meaning LJ feels as though he needs to change the team every week. These idiots will hound him out before long. Edited September 28, 2013 by NewBlue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_mighty_bosh Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 Methods go in and out out of fashion, for instance the famous Hungarian and Dutch national teams played systems no one had seen before, but who is to say with the right players the tactics won't be seen again ?. Hits the nail on the head for me. There's no perfect formula, styles evolve over time to counter the style that is seen as the dominant one. See Barca V Bayern last year. It's about finding the right thing at the right time. Look at us, last year some people were moaning at Dickov for not rotating the squad enough (rightly so) now some people aren't happy with LJ for tinkering too much (which I'm coming around to). Understanding the current environment and adapting to respond to it is what the best managers do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slystallone Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 But Barcelona players although small aren't lightweight, you don't see them pushed off the ball, and their holding midfielders can also create if needed, at Division one level you won't get that. Methods go in and out out of fashion, for instance the famous Hungarian and Dutch national teams played systems no one had seen before, but who is to say with the right players the tactics won't be seen again ?. Liverpool tried 3 centre backs the other day, this was frowned upon as going back to the old days by some pundits, in fact its a simple formation that could well work for the Latics as they have the personnel on the books. Obviously i'm not comparing us to Barca or Spain, but it was in response to your retort about holding midfielders and lightweight players. Neither Wes nor Smith are lightweight, and Both have shown that they can score and create from that position. It's almost there. The style of football we're looking at playing is modern, forward looking and something i want to watch. But its not simething that hasn't been done before by countless other managers & sides. LJ hasn't suddenly invented a new style of play. Its a sensible & considered decision to look to play like we are. And I agree wholeheartedly with it. Give me this team, this style and this manager over so many of the other Latics sides i've seen in all my years of watching us. And countless other League One, Championship and Premiership sides too. If you want to see a Latics side play in a style from the 70s or 80s, i'd suggest digging out an old VHS player and having anSaturday afternoon in, rather than the chore of getting down to Boundary Park and watching a young manager trying to get his young side playing attractive football. Sorry BP, but i just dont follow your thoughts on this... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 (edited) Obviously i'm not comparing us to Barca or Spain, but it was in response to your retort about holding midfielders and lightweight players. Neither Wes nor Smith are lightweight, and Both have shown that they can score and create from that position. It's almost there. The style of football we're looking at playing is modern, forward looking and something i want to watch. But its not simething that hasn't been done before by countless other managers & sides. LJ hasn't suddenly invented a new style of play. Its a sensible & considered decision to look to play like we are. And I agree wholeheartedly with it. Give me this team, this style and this manager over so many of the other Latics sides i've seen in all my years of watching us. And countless other League One, Championship and Premiership sides too. If you want to see a Latics side play in a style from the 70s or 80s, i'd suggest digging out an old VHS player and having anSaturday afternoon in, rather than the chore of getting down to Boundary Park and watching a young manager trying to get his young side playing attractive football. Sorry BP, but i just dont follow your thoughts on this... Today, a supporter who was at the game said some players gave only 80%, and the manager had an hour long inquest. I agree the football is nicer on the eye, but wouldn't you want full commitment too ? BTW way if you have any tapes of Alan Groves in action they would really make my Saturday afternoons. Edited September 28, 2013 by BP1960 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jw_oldh857 Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 I was against Jonson when he took over but he's won me over,an from our point of view we got to grin an bare it sadly we should have got something today tho its frustrating as f.k watching us Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeroyboy Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 A new young manager, wired to the moon with enthusiasm and who has put more into being prepared for his first coaching job than anyone else I am aware of, ever. He has arrived at Boundary Park and the 'real world' with a plan and how to bring it to fruition, the plan includes playing attractive football, any true fans first requirement. The 'real world' is the rub here. Playing a different team every week, against different tactics that can change at any given moment. Invariably against a coach with more experience of 'the real world' and in many cases much bigger playing budgets. Johnson's product is not coming off a machine based production line or made by robot, it is being challenged every second. He will eventually get better at his decision making before and during matches. It is also possible he will get worse (but unlikely in my opinion). His decision making remaining status-quo is logically and mathematically impossible. I also feel he will ultimately work with better players, maybe this season. I have only seen 7 of our 11 games but have managed to see all the goals and we have been 100% punished for at least four of them by dim-witted decision making by our players. All the games we have lost have been by 1 goal and we have rarely been dominated. We are not far away from my target of comfortable mid-table by May and I have no inclination to suppose that if Johnson implemented mine or anyone else's formation suggestions on match day we would fare any better, simply because there would be no possible way of knowing what the result would have been without our input or even his own 'this or that' choices for that matter. Let Johnson get on with losing sleep on how to tweak it into 'winning' 4 out of 9 instead of 2. What a massive difference that would make, but still not easy in the 'real world'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeylandLatic Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 Jimmy's philosophy for the lower leagues was 'they must be big and quick'. Ronnie Moore's a football genius. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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