NewBlue Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 Why would it be relevant how much ground 'keepers cover in the area, anyway? Most of it will be walking around aimlessly while the ball is in the midfield. The whole flapping at the ball business can't encourage much confidence either, in 'keeper or team. At Bradford Coleman flapped at a ball that should've been a regulation catch, which found its way out for a corner - that was pressure against an aerially threatening side which could've been avoided. The way I see it it's another standardising method to reduce the potential of players to think for themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzlatic Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 Why would it be relevant how much ground 'keepers cover in the area, anyway? Most of it will be walking around aimlessly while the ball is in the midfield. The whole flapping at the ball business can't encourage much confidence either, in 'keeper or team. At Bradford Coleman flapped at a ball that should've been a regulation catch, which found its way out for a corner - that was pressure against an aerially threatening side which could've been avoided. The way I see it it's another standardising method to reduce the potential of players to think for themselves. There's been a clear shift from catching crosses to punching over the years. It's definitely the modern way, probably backed up by statistics to show it's safer to punch than to catch. There's presumably some validity in it all or why would they deliberately be coaching keepers to be worse at the top level? However, the stats are all pretty irrelevant to the fans - if you see a keeper punching rather than catching it automatically gets most people worried. Especially when even the simplest catches are being punched which can't be right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 It always beats me when on International duty England keepers need a coach, they should be able at that stage to think for themselves. Maybe all it's all part of the empire building of coaches which seems to be increasing every year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deyres42 Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 It always beats me when on International duty England keepers need a coach, they should be able at that stage to think for themselves. Maybe all it's all part of the empire building of coaches which seems to be increasing every year. On that basis the top clubs don't need them either, in fact why bother with a manager, just go out and do your own thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewBlue Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 There's been a clear shift from catching crosses to punching over the years. It's definitely the modern way, probably backed up by statistics to show it's safer to punch than to catch. There's presumably some validity in it all or why would they deliberately be coaching keepers to be worse at the top level? However, the stats are all pretty irrelevant to the fans - if you see a keeper punching rather than catching it automatically gets most people worried. Especially when even the simplest catches are being punched which can't be right. That's what I mean though. There are obviously times when a 'keeper is more comfortably punching, but to me it seems like a standardised approach now, where even when a 'keeper looks like he should and can catch it he punches it i.e. Coleman at Bradford. I don't believe you can say with any validity 'it is safer to punch than to catch' so generally. The ability of an individual goalkeeper is surely more appropriate than some statistical model taken of every goalkeeper of the past 20 years or whatever - would it be appropriate for Manuel Neuer to factor in whether Dean Brill dropped the ball more than he punched it into the path of an attacker? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 On that basis the top clubs don't need them either, in fact why bother with a manager, just go out and do your own thing. I'm talking about specialist coaches for people who shouldn't need them, how did keepers manage before goalkeeping coaches? One of the best keepers I've seen at Latics - Harry Dowd, would have laughed at the thought of one for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaticsLegend Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 I'm talking about specialist coaches for people who shouldn't need them, how did keepers manage before goalkeeping coaches? One of the best keepers I've seen at Latics - Harry Dowd, would have laughed at the thought of one for him. Times change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 Times change. Do they for the better? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzlatic Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 Do they for the better? Take the 100m world record. That's just running fast in a straight line - who needs a coach to do that? But there have been huge advances in coaching methods, diet etc and the record keeps dropping. Gordon Banks was possibly the best keeper in the world in the 60s, was he as good as someone like Buffon? I don't think so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 (edited) Take the 100m world record. That's just running fast in a straight line - who needs a coach to do that? But there have been huge advances in coaching methods, diet etc and the record keeps dropping. Gordon Banks was possibly the best keeper in the world in the 60s, was he as good as someone like Buffon? I don't think so. Records were broken before sports science was invented. Dubious drug enhancements have also played some part don't you think? Edited January 29, 2016 by BP1960 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzlatic Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 Records were broken before sports science was invented. Dubious drug enhancements have also played some part don't you think? Tour de France cyclists were full of amphetamines 50 years ago. Drugs isn't a new thing. As long as there has been competition in any sport there has been cheating. But there has also always been competitors and coaches looking to improve every aspect of a training regime. It just so happens that these days we use technology and call it sports science. But it's always been there, and it will always have been using the most advanced methods available at the time. Doesn't mean all coaching is correct by the way - I hate to see modern keepers punching everything rather than choosing when to punch and when to catch! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest nonaenever Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 Errrrrr Joe Hart, Jack Butland - two outstanding keepers. Joe Hart - on the world stage - you're having a laugh aren't you ?!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 I suspect that crosses tend to come in faster than they used to do. Modern players would have time to get a speeding ticket and spitroast a skank in a Travelogue waiting for a Stanley Matthews cross to come over. Forwards are looking to glance the ball in rather than attack it in a straight run and likewise keepers are trying to help it on it's way rather than jump two handed for it. Not to say that they don't punch many they should be catching but once you have the mindset it will be hard to shake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 I suspect that crosses tend to come in faster than they used to do. Modern players would have time to get a speeding ticket and spitroast a skank in a Travelogue waiting for a Stanley Matthews cross to come over. Forwards are looking to glance the ball in rather than attack it in a straight run and likewise keepers are trying to help it on it's way rather than jump two handed for it. Not to say that they don't punch many they should be catching but once you have the mindset it will be hard to shake. Agree about the punching, this used to be a continental thing, but now seems more prevelant, maybe as a result of more European football by our clubs since the Champions league. Not sure about the crossing though some of Tommy Wright's were vicious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitey1980 Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 Modern, lighter footballs clearly play a part in the move away from looking to catch the ball. The ball is far more likely to hold its height in flight - or move unexpectedly - leaving the punch as a seemingly safer option. You see a similar technique with goalkeepers pulling down strikes from distance and claiming the ball off the bounce rather than catching cleanly. Not totally convinced in truth!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astottie Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 Agree about the punching, this used to be a continental thing, but now seems more prevelant, maybe as a result of more European football by our clubs since the Champions league. Not sure about the crossing though some of Tommy Wright's were vicious. In my memory most of Tonking Tommys crosses hit the full back straight up the arse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 In my memory most of Tonking Tommys crosses hit the full back straight up the arse.True, but he had a sore arse by the end of the game Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 In my memory most of Tonking Tommys crosses hit the full back straight up the arse. It was a ploy, Tommy was told to hit the ball in the corridor of uncertainty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aarondo Westy Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 Jake kean in the nets for Colchester today. Safe to say Colchester are going down. Rubbish keeper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spanishblue Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 LUMLEY IN DEMAND? QPR goalkeeper Joe Lumley is a reported loan target for Oldham,Colchester and Swindon, according to the Daily Mirror. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harry1203 Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 (edited) Watch these highlights of Lumley playing for QPR a couple of weeks ago. Could easily think it was Coleman or Cornell in goal! No thanks Edited February 1, 2016 by harry1203 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristolatic Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 Watch these highlights of Lumley playing for QPR a couple of weeks ago. Could easily think it was Coleman or Cornell in goal! No thanks I've had more success catching a bar of wet soap. As for this punching v catching, I was always taught to catch where possible unless there was a chance of collision with another player and the impact knocking the ball out of your hands. Not always easy to prejudge the situation, but catching was always a safer option. If you had to punch, you give it a right old belt to get it as far away as possible. It was easier in those days, though, because the ball didn't dip and swerve like it does now. I'm sure that the movement now creates uncertainty in a keeper's mind, which results in wrong decision making. And we're talking about League 1 keepers, not Neuer or Buffon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 Some good keepers in non league who come of their line, catch a ball cleanly, and don't let shots bounce off their chests from what Iv'e seen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 I've had more success catching a bar of wet soap. As for this punching v catching, I was always taught to catch where possible unless there was a chance of collision with another player and the impact knocking the ball out of your hands. Not always easy to prejudge the situation, but catching was always a safer option. If you had to punch, you give it a right old belt to get it as far away as possible. It was easier in those days, though, because the ball didn't dip and swerve like it does now. I'm sure that the movement now creates uncertainty in a keeper's mind, which results in wrong decision making. And we're talking about League 1 keepers, not Neuer or Buffon. Does anyone know the reason why the ball is like a balloon these days, what was wrong with it 20 years ago? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristolatic Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 Does anyone know the reason why the ball is like a balloon these days, what was wrong with it 20 years ago? Aerodynamics and the fact it doesn't collect water like the old ones did? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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