ChaddySmoker Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 Frankly, any club that uses administration as a tactical choice are run by a bunch of :censored:. Paying non-football creditors approx. 10p in the pound should only be the absolute last resort as it's often local businesses and ambulance services who lose out. If teams want to represent their communities they shouldn't milk them for money. It's why the FL brought in the points penalty when Bradford and Leicester (to name a couple) tried it over a decade ago. As I understand it our major (only?) creditors are Corney, Blitz and Gazal. If they put us into administration they are the one's who lose out. Your logic is quite obviously flawed and contradictory Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_mighty_bosh Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 Your logic is quite obviously flawed and contradictory How so? Basically saying that teams in general shouldn't look to go into administration unless they have to, and (as a separate point) why it wouldn't make sense for Corney, Blitz and Gazal to go down that route with us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest nonaenever Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 I`ve said this on another thread and just to clarify - people talk about Administration as a choice we can just make - it isn't. To go into Administration, you firstly have to be insolvent or likely to become insolvent (the only exception to this is via a qualified floating charge holder). We simply don't know the true financial situation - we know it's not great but whether we are anywhere near insolvent is anyone's guess on here. There is a great deal of difference between insolvency and temporary cash-flow issues (which we have undoubtedly had). Can we just stop silly, destructive talk and get on with supporting the team? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clifford Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 Totally agree. Frankly, any club that uses administration as a tactical choice are run by a bunch of :censored:. Paying non-football creditors approx. 10p in the pound should only be the absolute last resort as it's often local businesses and ambulance services who lose out. If teams want to represent their communities they shouldn't milk them for money. It's why the FL brought in the points penalty when Bradford and Leicester (to name a couple) tried it over a decade ago. As I understand it our major (only?) creditors are Corney, Blitz and Gazal. If they put us into administration they are the one's who lose out financially. Ha ha ha they'd still own the ground and all the land. The debt to them is :censored: all in reality. The debt is the cost it takes to buy the ground off them for any new buyer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scapegoat Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 Posted a few times over the years, but I recall seeing a table of all the football clubs that had gone into Administration, which ranked them by the % of debts that they wrote off. I think Middlesborough were top and we were bottom - managing to retain 85% of our original debt. I remember my Dad commenting, "We can't even go bust properly". In terms of our debt it appears to be increasing based on another post on the board somewhere showing our operating losses for the last 10 years (the £400k profit reported in the Independent article is a one off), so whilst the main debt to the TTA is probably net off by the ground value (if they ever wanted to sell it), the other aspects of the losses must be a worry. In terms of a 'tactical' choice, I can only suspect that clubs only really choice is when not if. If you have debts that you cannot pay, you could hold them off for longer if that suited or not. I believe that you cannot take the deduction once you are already relegated, in those circumstances the penalty rolls over to the next season. So if Latics were in administration trouble, we could take the points deduction now and be certainly relegated, or try and hold the creditors from the door hoping we could stay up and then hope that we could make enough points next season to stay up with the deduction. Worst case scenario is get relegated and then start with -12 points in August. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaddySmoker Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 (edited) A good post Scapegoat It was my post showing historical losses and then some profits in recent years Edited February 3, 2016 by ChaddySmoker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaddySmoker Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 How so? Basically saying that teams in general shouldn't look to go into administration unless they have to, and (as a separate point) why it wouldn't make sense for Corney, Blitz and Gazal to go down that route with us. The post starts off making a moral judgement and then points out the realistic situation being nothing like that scenario actually Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yarddog73 Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 The cut off date is sometime in March for the 12 point deduction to be applied this season, I'd heard a rumour that this was being discussed within the club but not sure what we would gain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scapegoat Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 The cut off date is sometime in March for the 12 point deduction to be applied this season, I'd heard a rumour that this was being discussed within the club but not sure what we would gain. If the club thinks that relegation is a certainty, but not mathematical, before the March deadline, then they would gain any financial benefit from administration (reduced debt etc) without the points deduction having a meaningful impact on the team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scapegoat Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 A good post Scapegoat It was my post showing historical losses and then some profits in recent years Thanks - couldn't find the post when i looked again. Some very good information to be hidden away, perhaps a separate thread? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaddySmoker Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 Thanks - couldn't find the post when i looked again. Some very good information to be hidden away, perhaps a separate thread? I couldnt find it again either! That must illustrate that I spend too much time on here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singe Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 Surely, if Administration was ever a viable consideration it would have been done years ago? a) We have made a profit for the past 3 years (Modest the other two but more last year. All last years profit has clearly been eaten up anyway.But prior to that we were making a loss year after year We were much safer in previous years in terms of points aleady gained c) It's only this year it has been a real issue. (Depends on the loan agreement for the £241k of course. ) d) We life life on the precipice every year and sell to survive every year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevie_J Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 Ha ha ha they'd still own the ground and all the land. The debt to them is :censored: all in reality. The debt is the cost it takes to buy the ground off them for any new buyer. Letting the club go into administration wouldn't exactly enhance their sideline businesses. The football club is costing them :censored: all and funding their stand. They are not going to let it go into administration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaddySmoker Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 Letting the club go into administration wouldn't exactly enhance their sideline businesses. The football club is costing them :censored: all and funding their stand. They are not going to let it go into administration. You are commenting based on the premise that the Board know what they are doing + are in control of the cash flow situation-Indications point that that is incorrect! The football club funding the stand ceased long ago (season ticket money) apart from asset (player) sales and borrowings from third parties Surely, if Administration was ever a viable consideration it would have been done years ago? a) We have made a profit for the past 3 years (Modest the other two but more last year. All last years profit has clearly been eaten up anyway.But prior to that we were making a loss year after year We were much safer in previous years in terms of points aleady gained c) It's only this year it has been a real issue. (Depends on the loan agreement for the £241k of course. ) d) We life life on the precipice every year and sell to survive every year. We didnt have to pay for a new stand years ago-plus we had Blitz & Gazal with finance The cut off date is sometime in March for the 12 point deduction to be applied this season, I'd heard a rumour that this was being discussed within the club but not sure what we would gain. So Feb it is then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzlatic Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 Are there any indicators that suggest administration is an actual possibility? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opinions4u Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 Are there any indicators that suggest administration is an actual possibility? As the biggest loser would be blitz id say none. Cashing in sell on clauses, loans from scouseland and paying wages late raise an eyebrow though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boundaryblue80 Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 Corney in the GMR interview stated that all the money was in place to finish the stand. If so why the delays in finishing the stand? How much financially will it take to finish the new stand? When will the new stand be fully finished? The new stand has took us down without doubt. Why has they been delays in paying players wages? James Tarowski sell on clause has it been cashed in previously? What is our financial position are we in a lot worse state than we are led to believe hence the serios lack of communication between club & supporters? We are going down would you take adminstration now to bring new owners to the club? Just goes to show how pathetic some "fans" are for down-voting this... How dare one ask relevant, serious questions... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaddySmoker Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 Just goes to show how pathetic some "fans" are for down-voting this... How dare one ask relevant, serious questions... Downboated . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boundaryblue80 Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 Downboated . Oh...never expected that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobOAFC Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 So has anyone who is seriously concerned tried to do anything? Have you contacted the trust? Attended trust meetings to try get something sorted? Have you e-mailed Corney asking whether the previous offer to see the books is still open? Have you tried to set up some form of supporters association to try get answers? Maybe even a protest that has a targeted objective and a set plan to achieve this objective? Or are you still spouting the same argument from behind a keyboard for however many months and years whilst doing jack :censored: about it and continuing to moan about no answers? I'm not defending the club here, no doubt there has been poor decisions and management from those at the top. Clearly some stuff is unclear. But if you really want answers, then do something about it. Keep saying the same stuff on here won't change a thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluear Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 So has anyone who is seriously concerned tried to do anything? Have you contacted the trust? Attended trust meetings to try get something sorted? Have you e-mailed Corney asking whether the previous offer to see the books is still open? Have you tried to set up some form of supporters association to try get answers? Maybe even a protest that has a targeted objective and a set plan to achieve this objective? Or are you still spouting the same argument from behind a keyboard for however many months and years whilst doing jack :censored: about it and continuing to moan about no answers? I'm not defending the club here, no doubt there has been poor decisions and management from those at the top. Clearly some stuff is unclear. But if you really want answers, then do something about it. Keep saying the same stuff on here won't change a thing. Course they haven't done any of that. Jokers the lot of them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singe Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 (edited) So has anyone who is seriously concerned tried to do anything? Have you contacted the trust? Attended trust meetings to try get something sorted? Have you e-mailed Corney asking whether the previous offer to see the books is still open? Have you tried to set up some form of supporters association to try get answers? Maybe even a protest that has a targeted objective and a set plan to achieve this objective? Or are you still spouting the same argument from behind a keyboard for however many months and years whilst doing jack :censored: about it and continuing to moan about no answers? I'm not defending the club here, no doubt there has been poor decisions and management from those at the top. Clearly some stuff is unclear. But if you really want answers, then do something about it. Keep saying the same stuff on here won't change a thing. Course they haven't done any of that. Jokers the lot of them I am 100% certain hardly anyone will do anything other than spout off or walk away. I campaigned to get an historic building saved locally to me. I managed to get 5,000 signatures on an online petition, and others got 5,000 more door to door. For a town roughly the size of Uppermill. A presentation of the peititon was arranged at a Council meeting to decide the fate (or so we thought) about 75 people turned up. At the election, everyone voted along the general election result not taking into account local appalling performance. A public consultation about a 8 months later attracted just 364 people to submit their view or atend 8 meetings. So over a whole year support dwindled to nothing. So now it is going to get knocked down. Everyone has shrugged their shoulders. They thought a one second signing a name to a petition was enough. This country has so many people that expect someone else to do it, to put in the hard graft and the time. Then they spout off why was nothing done. Edited February 3, 2016 by singe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 So has anyone who is seriously concerned tried to do anything? Have you contacted the trust? Attended trust meetings to try get something sorted? Have you e-mailed Corney asking whether the previous offer to see the books is still open? Have you tried to set up some form of supporters association to try get answers? Maybe even a protest that has a targeted objective and a set plan to achieve this objective? Or are you still spouting the same argument from behind a keyboard for however many months and years whilst doing jack :censored: about it and continuing to moan about no answers? I'm not defending the club here, no doubt there has been poor decisions and management from those at the top. Clearly some stuff is unclear. But if you really want answers, then do something about it. Keep saying the same stuff on here won't change a thing. Keyboard warriors have forced questions to be asked in the House of Commons, by the same token questions could be asked in the OAFC boardroom as a result of fans internet activity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevie_J Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 I am 100% certain hardly anyone will do anything other than spout off or walk away. I campaigned to get an historic building saved locally to me. I managed to get 5,000 signatures on an online petition, and others got 5,000 more door to door. For a town roughly the size of Uppermill. A presentation of the peititon was arranged at a Council meeting to decide the fate (or so we thought) about 75 people turned up. At the election, everyone voted along the general election result not taking into account local appalling performance. A public consultation about a 8 months later attracted just 364 people to submit their view or atend 8 meetings. So over a whole year support dwindled to nothing. So now it is going to get knocked down. Everyone has shrugged their shoulders. They thought a one second signing a name to a petition was enough. This country has so many people that expect someone else to do it, to put in the hard graft and the time. Then they spout off why was nothing done. To be fair, anyone who raises the idea of taking any sort of action whatsoever in relation to Latics gets shot down immediately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singe Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 (edited) To be fair, anyone who raises the idea of taking any sort of action whatsoever in relation to Latics gets shot down immediately. Then they need to be made of sterner stuff. Most times I have seen them shot down is because their argument or reason was flawed. Our energies are best focussed on support to save us from relegation and halping find a buyer. Edited February 3, 2016 by singe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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