Ex players and that

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[Andyt84]

12 hours ago, Summerdeep said:

^ So the Latics received around £1 million for Bernard in the mid-1990s? That was very serious money at the time and could have been put to good use, but clearly wasn't! I remember watching a newly relegated OAFC side playing at Fulham in September 1997 against a side just up from the old Fourth Division (or whatever it was called back then), and getting slaughtered. The fans probably thought things couldn't get much worse from then on, but there was another quarter of a century of decline (at least) to come, lol.....

Not just the money from this transfer.  We sold other players for good prices and bought crap replacements like Nicky Banger, Toddy Orlygsson, etc.  We also lost a few players for free or low fees due to the new Bosman ruling.  The worst was losing Chris Makin for free to Marseille.  Some of the young players that came through the youth system also didn't make the cut like we thought they would.  We also had some very good players left over from being in the top flight which Graeme Sharp wouldn't utilise properly for example Darren Beckford who was a very good striker for that level but never played often even of he scored in his few appearances. I can remember talking to him at the time and he was very frustrated because the manager just didn't like him. 

Edited February 26, 2023 by Andyt84

[Bobledgersheart]

1 hour ago, redlion said:

Wasn't Keith Bebington around at the same time ? I'm sure he was in the same team as Reggie.

Yes but Keith came  little after Reg who was in the first flush of Bates' signings. I can remember walking to the match and seeing a poster on a lamppost announcing we'd signed Ian Towers and he was making his debut that afternoon. That was pre-internet of course .

I've got an old Boundary Bulletin from November '67 when our team v Brighton was Best, Asprey, Joyce, Blair, Hunter, Knighton, Blore, Magee, Ledger, Philpott, Bebbington ( numbers 1 to 11 .....ah the good old days !!  ) 

[Summerdeep]

^ I think Bebbington joined the club in the close season of 1966. Bates and McIlroy must have done an impressive job to persuade an established first teamer at Stoke City (100 appearances, and aged just 23 at the time) to come to a Third Division club. 

 

Three years later Bebbington found himself in a side that was second bottom of the old Fourth Division and on the transfer list at his own request. He almost went to Blackburn in February 1970 in a straight exchange deal for Jim Fryatt, but the Latics insisted on a cash adjustment in their favour as well, and ended up buying Fryatt for around £8000. I think Bebbington went to Rochdale in the 1972 close season in exchange for Ronnie Blair.

[LaticsPete]

Bebbington did indeed arrive in Aug 66 as part of a double purchase from Stoke along with George Kinnell Apparently £25000 combined fee. 
Yes went to Dale when Blair came back. 
 

255 apps 46 goals

 

Blore came Dec 65,  as did Frank Large, Towers Jan 66, and the super David Best in Sept 66

[Summerdeep]

Someone earlier mentioned Paul Bernard's career ending in disappointment, but what about Keith Bebbington? The more I think about it, the sadder and more incomprehensible it seems.

 

Here was a guy who in his early twenties was a semi-regular member of a side in the top flight of the Football League, who had played alongside Stanley Matthews and who had scored a goal in a League Cup final. And yet there he was, still aged just 26, playing for us in 1969-70 against sides like Workington, Bradford PA and Hartlepool.

 

Things obviously improved a bit for him with the advent of Frizzell as manager and promotion to Div 3, but I think that by the summer of 1972 Keith must have given up on any serious career ambitions if he was prepared to move to Rochdale. They were on a steeply downward trajectory by then, with home attendances around the 2,000 mark, and were relegated in 1973-74 with just two wins in the entire season.

 

 

Edited February 26, 2023 by Summerdeep

[Bobledgersheart]

Keith didn't play with Mathews as he was his understudy and probably wasn't good enough for the then first division. 

The joint fee for him and Kinnell ( who was Stoke reserves' captain ) was a not inconsiderable sum for a fourth division side but was recouped amply when Kinnell was sold for about £30K after a dozen or so games.

He was a joy to watch on our left wing ( although primarily right footed I think ) and a bit trickier than normal lower league wingers but probably lacked a bit of acceleration for the higher leagues. He's also a decent bloke who enjoyed a game of golf and a night out at the dogs the last time I saw him.  

[BP1960]

Another excellent winger around that time was George McVitie, a great capture for the club as he'd already played 42 games for West Brom.

Wish we had 2 wingers like Bebbington and McVitie now.

Having said that we'd need 2 up front like Jim Fryatt and David Shaw.

Fryatt one of the best headers of a ball we ever had, and Shaw undoubtedly the fastest.

Edited February 26, 2023 by BP1960

[Summerdeep]

55 minutes ago, Bobledgersheart said:

Keith didn't play with Mathews as he was his understudy and probably wasn't good enough for the then first division. 

The joint fee for him and Kinnell ( who was Stoke reserves' captain ) was a not inconsiderable sum for a fourth division side but was recouped amply when Kinnell was sold for about £30K after a dozen or so games.

He was a joy to watch on our left wing ( although primarily right footed I think ) and a bit trickier than normal lower league wingers but probably lacked a bit of acceleration for the higher leagues. He's also a decent bloke who enjoyed a game of golf and a night out at the dogs the last time I saw him.  

 

 

Thanks for the reply and point taken. The fact remains though that he played 100 games for Stoke City's first team, mostly in the top division, before his 23rd birthday, so it must have been felt at the time that he was up to the required standard or very close to it.

[Punce]

Jim Fryatt could head a football like it was shot out of a cannon.   On day he scored with a ball that was about 4 inches above the ground, it would have been much easier to tap it in : -)

A 'keeper went down clutching the football in one match, obviously injured.   Jim sidled up to him and looked like he was going to commiserate, as soon as he was within range he started to boot the ball trying to get it from his grasp.   Happy days.

Fryatt moved to America, I once saw his son's name high on a leader board at a big open golf tournament, but he faded away.

[Summerdeep]

Jim Fryatt once gave a lift home in his car to a schoolfriend and me after we missed the coach back home from an away match at Stockport. This was the game played on 25 September 1970 which ended in a 1-1 draw. Fryatt was captain for the night against one of his many former clubs.

 

What struck me was just how old and cramped the car was for a 'star player'. It can't have been worth more than £200-£300 and I think it may have been a Vauxhall Viva or something similar. I also remember him smoking a lot of cigarettes, with the car windows closed, LOL. He had his wife and a small child with him, and all he said to the two of us throughout the journey was "Did you enjoy the game, boys?".

 

I read an interview with Fryatt in one of the fanzines which came out in the 1990s, and he said that he was surprised that anyone in the town still remembered him, which I found a bit strange to say the least!

[BP1960]

2 hours ago, Summerdeep said:

Jim Fryatt once gave a lift home in his car to a schoolfriend and me after we missed the coach back home from an away match at Stockport. This was the game played on 25 September 1970 which ended in a 1-1 draw. Fryatt was captain for the night against one of his many former clubs.

 

What struck me was just how old and cramped the car was for a 'star player'. It can't have been worth more than £200-£300 and I think it may have been a Vauxhall Viva or something similar. I also remember him smoking a lot of cigarettes, with the car windows closed, LOL. He had his wife and a small child with him, and all he said to the two of us throughout the journey was "Did you enjoy the game, boys?".

 

I read an interview with Fryatt in one of the fanzines which came out in the 1990s, and he said that he was surprised that anyone in the town still remembered him, which I found a bit strange to say the least!

And they loved him in Las Vegas..

https://www.reviewjournal.com/sports/sports-columns/ron-kantowski/jimmy-fryatt-scorer-of-4-second-soccer-goal-dies-at-79-2049209/

[Summerdeep]

4 hours ago, BP1960 said:

Another excellent winger around that time was George McVitie, a great capture for the club as he'd already played 42 games for West Brom.

Wish we had 2 wingers like Bebbington and McVitie now.

Having said that we'd need 2 up front like Jim Fryatt and David Shaw.

Fryatt one of the best headers of a ball we ever had, and Shaw undoubtedly the fastest.

 

Yes, McVitie was a very accomplished player for us, and scored quite a few vital goals. Noteworthy among these was his excellent 25 yard strike against Bristol Rovers at Eastville on Easter Saturday 1974, which was captured on BBC 'Match of the Day' cameras. Also the two goals he scored in an amazing game at Sunderland in 1975 when we came from 2-0 down to salvage a draw - we only escaped relegation by a couple of points that year, so that was a crucial match.

 

McVitie's signing had an interesting aspect in that the Latics had been in negotiations with WBA for much of the summer of 1972 with a view to acquiring his services, but John Lowe repeatedly refused to agree to Albion's £15,000 valuation for the player, so the deal collapsed. The 1972-73 season started disastrously with a 4-1 hammering at Chesterfield, and in what looked like a bit of a panic move, we hurriedly signed McVitie, just in time for him to make his debut in another poor performance in the League Cup at Bolton (lost 0-3). Jim Williams remarked in his Oldham Chronicle match report that McVitie was by far the Latics' best performer, but that he must have been wondering afterwards what he had let himself in for....

 

What was interesting though was the revelation that the sum paid for him was £22,500. A 50% price hike in a matter of weeks? No wonder they say inflation was out of control in the 70s!

 

There was further drama involving McVitie when he was rushed to hospital a few weeks later for emergency surgery on a perforated ulcer, and it wasn't until the following March that he returned to first team action. His involuntary absence gave Andy Sweeney his big chance to establish himself in the side, but unfortunately he wasn't altogether successful in this.

 

I think George went back to play for his home town club Carlisle after that, and was still turning out for Queen Of The South in the Scottish League until well into his mid-thirties. I read once that he became a milkman after his football career ended, and not so many years ago he was writing a weekly football column for a local Carlisle newspaper, maybe he still is?

 

McVitie's partner on the other wing for the early part of the 1972-73 season by the way was Johnny Morrissey, but maybe the less said about him the better...

 

 

Edited February 26, 2023 by Summerdeep

[Bobledgersheart]

One memory I have of McVitie is stalking him at Oldham Greyhound Stadium to see what he was backing. Eventually as he moved towards the bookies I nipped in front of him with my £2 on a dog I subsequently learned was owned by Jimmy McGregor (allegedly). The dog duly won and I got £8 back and many astute locals cashed in at a better price than George eventually took.

George wasn't particularly quick on the field but he was notably slower than some of the wide boy punters at 'Sheddongs !  

 

ps It was a brindled dog if memory serves me right and was called Pale Ale ? ( short term memory's going a bit but I can always remember winning bets !! ).

[Dave_Og]

32 minutes ago, Bobledgersheart said:

One memory I have of McVitie is stalking him at Oldham Greyhound Stadium to see what he was backing. Eventually as he moved towards the bookies I nipped in front of him with my £2 on a dog I subsequently learned was owned by Jimmy McGregor (allegedly). The dog duly won and I got £8 back and many astute locals cashed in at a better price than George eventually took.

George wasn't particularly quick on the field but he was notably slower than some of the wide boy punters at 'Sheddongs !  

 

ps It was a brindled dog if memory serves me right and was called Pale Ale ? ( short term memory's going a bit but I can always remember winning bets !! ).

You waited to see what he was backing but nipped in front of him??

[Bobledgersheart]

 

5 minutes ago, Dave_Og said:

You waited to see what he was backing but nipped in front of him??

Any "new face" at Oldham dog track was watched like a hawk to see if they had any decent info.

To be honest McVitie stood out like a sore thumb, making it obvious he was just there to back one dog, so it was pretty easy for anyone with a modicum of gambling knowledge to beat him to the punch.

The one exception being a pissed up Alex Higgins who arrived with a couple of minders and proceeded to back two or even three losing picks in a five dog race thus lengthening the price of "shrewdies" selections. He then told a young kid to "f*** off" when politely asked for an autograph, some "Peoples' Champion".

[Punce]

9 minutes ago, Bobledgersheart said:

 

Any "new face" at Oldham dog track was watched like a hawk to see if they had any decent info.

To be honest McVitie stood out like a sore thumb, making it obvious he was just there to back one dog, so it was pretty easy for anyone with a modicum of gambling knowledge to beat him to the punch.

The one exception being a pissed up Alex Higgins who arrived with a couple of minders and proceeded to back two or even three losing picks in a five dog race thus lengthening the price of "shrewdies" selections. He then told a young kid to "f*** off" when politely asked for an autograph, some "Peoples' Champion".

 

 

  Yes, I don't think anyone would confuse Higggins with the Brain of Britain.    My mate reckoned that he saw him bragging about a large bet at a tournament  - he had misread the odds, thought he had 5 to 1, it was actually 1 to 5.   Lost the bet into the bargain.

[BP1960]

Yes there are some arrogant celebs.

I remember at the races when I was about 19yo asking Lester Piggott for his autograph in the pre race paddock, he waved away the autograph book mounted his horse and rode off.

However, another jockey called Greville Starkey overheared this gave his autograph and said, back my horse it's the winner.

I did so - and it won at 8/1.

One of  the most obliging was Bobby Collins when he was at Latics, he always found time for everyone.

Can't beat Ken Dodd though, I met him once 

and asked could he could  give me the winner of the  upcoming Grand National.

Quick as a flash he replied.."Get on Pullover...its a fine jumper".

[Dave_Og]

1 hour ago, Bobledgersheart said:

 

Any "new face" at Oldham dog track was watched like a hawk to see if they had any decent info.

To be honest McVitie stood out like a sore thumb, making it obvious he was just there to back one dog, so it was pretty easy for anyone with a modicum of gambling knowledge to beat him to the punch.

The one exception being a pissed up Alex Higgins who arrived with a couple of minders and proceeded to back two or even three losing picks in a five dog race thus lengthening the price of "shrewdies" selections. He then told a young kid to "f*** off" when politely asked for an autograph, some "Peoples' Champion".

 

1 hour ago, Bobledgersheart said:

 

Any "new face" at Oldham dog track was watched like a hawk to see if they had any decent info.

To be honest McVitie stood out like a sore thumb, making it obvious he was just there to back one dog, so it was pretty easy for anyone with a modicum of gambling knowledge to beat him to the punch.

The one exception being a pissed up Alex Higgins who arrived with a couple of minders and proceeded to back two or even three losing picks in a five dog race thus lengthening the price of "shrewdies" selections. He then told a young kid to "f*** off" when politely asked for an autograph, some "Peoples' Champion".

But how did you know what he was backing?

 

I once took some colleagues to Walthamstow.nthe junior thought he knew what he was doing and confidently strode up to the tote counter and had fifty quid in six to beat four. They came third and fifth and was fuming when he wasn't paid out!

 

He later became the first person in the country to be jailed for insider dealing.

[Bobledgersheart]

42 minutes ago, Dave_Og said:

 

But how did you know what he was backing?

 

I once took some colleagues to Walthamstow.nthe junior thought he knew what he was doing and confidently strode up to the tote counter and had fifty quid in six to beat four. They came third and fifth and was fuming when he wasn't paid out!

 

He later became the first person in the country to be jailed for insider dealing.

I suppose you could put it down to intuition.....but I knew three of the other dogs and their connections so more or less discounted them so it was an even money shot then between the remaining two. In fact it narrowed down to the correct one because in those days ( and I know it may be hard to believe nowadays  ) I was pretty astute, at least with greyhounds if not much else !

[Summerdeep]

5 hours ago, Dave_Og said:

 

 

 

I once took some colleagues to Walthamstow.nthe junior thought he knew what he was doing and confidently strode up to the tote counter and had fifty quid in six to beat four. They came third and fifth and was fuming when he wasn't paid out!

 

He later became the first person in the country to be jailed for insider dealing.

 

I lived in Walthamstow for 27 years, but never got round to visiting the dog track. Went down the M11 a few times to the Newmarket races though.

[Dave_Og]

10 minutes ago, Summerdeep said:

 

I lived in Walthamstow for 27 years, but never got round to visiting the dog track. Went down the M11 a few times to the Newmarket races though.

I'm a very keen racegoer and Newmarket is my nearest course, but I'm a jumps man.

[Hometownclub]

7 hours ago, Dave_Og said:

You waited to see what he was backing but nipped in front of him??

[Hometownclub]

7 hours ago, Bobledgersheart said:

 

Any "new face" at Oldham dog track was watched like a hawk to see if they had any decent info.

To be honest McVitie stood out like a sore thumb, making it obvious he was just there to back one dog, so it was pretty easy for anyone with a modicum of gambling knowledge to beat him to the punch.

The one exception being a pissed up Alex Higgins who arrived with a couple of minders and proceeded to back two or even three losing picks in a five dog race thus lengthening the price of "shrewdies" selections. He then told a young kid to "f*** off" when politely asked for an autograph, some "Peoples' Champion".

I didn’t miss many meetings at Oldham dogs during the 80’s, particularly remember seeing Alex Higgins turn up one night, he had about 4 bets, didn’t back a winner and went off moaning about the track being bent.

Terry McDermott also turned up one night too.