rosa Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 That would technically be the difference between a premeditated crime and a crime of passion. And whilst I agree that there needs to be distinctions in the law, I do not not see what difference there should be within the law between a racially motivated premeditated crime verses a premeditated crime for any other stupid reason. The same would go for the crime of passion, which can also be racially motivated. I think the difference with hate crimes is that it can be seen as an attack on a whole group of people,and the effect that has is what justifies the distinction and tougher sentencing. If someone gets beaten up or killed in a racist attack, then you could see how that would make any black/Asian person living in that area fear for their safety far more than (for example) a gang-related attack would. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlossopLatic Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 I think the difference with hate crimes is that it can be seen as an attack on a whole group of people,and the effect that has is what justifies the distinction and tougher sentencing. If someone gets beaten up or killed in a racist attack, then you could see how that would make any black/Asian person living in that area fear for their safety far more than (for example) a gang-related attack would. Bang on the money Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opinions4u Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 I think Liverpool FC are in danger of making themselves look like a bunch of idiots over this. The whole squad warming up wearing Suarez t-shirts over their training kit as we speak. The more I ponder Liverpool's response to this, the more it bothers me. - their man has admitted his guilt, so where's the witch hunt? - the way that their statement uses the colour of Suarez's grandfather as a defence is cheap. - the way they are saying Evra's been "unreliable" in the past is meaningless - after all, Suarez himself has admitted guilt. - the wearing of the t-shirts last night is basically saying that racist comments are acceptable. - Dalglish claiming the FA are trying to divide the club. In what way? They can appeal the ruling of guilt. But how on earth can they expect that to succeed when he's confirmed what he said? They can appeal the punishment. I can't decide whether it's too harsh or a bit on the generous side. So it's probably about right. They could ask for mitigation to be taken in to account, citing cultural differences. But I don't buy the argument "it's how we talk in Uruguay". It might be a term of endearment when you bump in to a mate in the street in Montevideo. But you're not telling me, in the heat of battle against Man Utd, he was giving Evra a friendly welcome? Maybe an appeal against sentence on the grounds that he co-operated honestly with the investigation could carry some weight. Make it 6 matches plus a couple suspended? Regardless. Liverpool's approach to this has been wrong. The player should be apologising, explaining the context and appealing for a reduced punishment. The football club should be ashamed of their current approach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bossrocks Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 (edited) Just 'cause he used a derogatory term it doesn't make him a racist - he just wanted to get at Evra who'd been annoying him on the pitch. I call my brother a bald tw*t when he annoys me. Doesn't mean I hate bald people - I just say it because I know it annoys him. 8 games is harsh when we see a Sheffield Wednesday player injure big Jean and go unpunished. And no I'm not suggesting the plight of bald people can be compared to acts of racism suffered and still being suffered in the world but suggesting a footballer having a go at another in the heat of the moment is racism belittles genuine cases of racism. Edited December 23, 2011 by bossrocks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted December 25, 2011 Share Posted December 25, 2011 (edited) Just 'cause he used a derogatory term it doesn't make him a racist . Racist actions don't make one a racist ? And he has a lot if black friends as well... Easiest way to not look like a racist is to not act like one... I don't know his true feelings but "culture differences" argument is weak... Edited December 25, 2011 by oafc0000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opinions4u Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 We're now what? Nearly 4 months on from the original incident. It's becoming something of a soap opera. In the great scheme of things, yesterday's lack of handshake is, on its own, very little. But it could so easily have put the matter to bed. Dalglish has stood by his man. While I actually quite admire that, there's little doubt Kenny has got so much wrong around the whole incident. In his post-match interview on Match of the Day he looked like he genuinely didn't know that Suarez had further inflamed the whole situation. He might have been lying, but his body language and facial expression appeared to be of shock and surprise. If he really didn't know what hadn't happened nearly two hours after it hadn't occurred he really needs to give his players and backroom staff a kicking for leaving him exposed to the press in such a way. As for the Sky interview, he looked like he was going to throttle Geoff Shreeves. Phil Dowd's facial expression as the "Respect" ritual of pre-match handshakes is worth seeing. Evra's post match celebration not quite so impressive, although it should be pointed out that this doesn't appear to have been something targeted at Suarez ... their paths just happeend to cross at the end of Evra's full lap of joy. Still, I think it's time to stop the whole pre-match "Respect" stuff. It's clearly lacking and nothing's going to change that. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80Oed8OT4vw&feature=related Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diego_Sideburns Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 We're now what? Nearly 4 months on from the original incident. It's becoming something of a soap opera. In the great scheme of things, yesterday's lack of handshake is, on its own, very little. But it could so easily have put the matter to bed. Dalglish has stood by his man. While I actually quite admire that, there's little doubt Kenny has got so much wrong around the whole incident. In his post-match interview on Match of the Day he looked like he genuinely didn't know that Suarez had further inflamed the whole situation. He might have been lying, but his body language and facial expression appeared to be of shock and surprise. If he really didn't know what hadn't happened nearly two hours after it hadn't occurred he really needs to give his players and backroom staff a kicking for leaving him exposed to the press in such a way. As for the Sky interview, he looked like he was going to throttle Geoff Shreeves. Phil Dowd's facial expression as the "Respect" ritual of pre-match handshakes is worth seeing. Evra's post match celebration not quite so impressive, although it should be pointed out that this doesn't appear to have been something targeted at Suarez ... their paths just happeend to cross at the end of Evra's full lap of joy. Still, I think it's time to stop the whole pre-match "Respect" stuff. It's clearly lacking and nothing's going to change that. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80Oed8OT4vw&feature=related Suarez's ignoring of Evra's outstretched hand and Ferdinand's ignoring of Suarez's, together with dispensing with the handshake ritual to avoid a similar situation with Anton Ferdinand and Terry, have made a mockery of the 'Respect' initiative. To stop the ritual will be an acceptance that racism has won, which cannot be aloud to happen. Racism's prevalence in society is reflected in football, but David Cameron is getting involved, so we can rest assured that it'll be sorted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Suarez's ignoring of Evra's outstretched hand and Ferdinand's ignoring of Suarez's, together with dispensing with the handshake ritual to avoid a similar situation with Anton Ferdinand and Terry, have made a mockery of the 'Respect' initiative. To stop the ritual will be an acceptance that racism has won, which cannot be aloud to happen. Racism's prevalence in society is reflected in football, but David Cameron is getting involved, so we can rest assured that it'll be sorted. I don't think you can blame Ferdinand for mercking Suarez after Suarez wouldn't shake with Evra, that's backing your team mate up. De Gea looked like he was trying to pull away or send him back when he realised what was happening, although it's also possible that he just dropped Suarez' hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorrro Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Suarez doesn't like Evra. He didn't want to shake his hand. I don't see the problem here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diego_Sideburns Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 I don't think you can blame Ferdinand for mercking Suarez after Suarez wouldn't shake with Evra, that's backing your team mate up. What we don't know is whether Ferdinand would have ignored the outstretched hand of Suarez, if Suarez had shaken with Evra, but by ignoring him he's left himself open to criticism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveoafc Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 I think both suarez and evra acted like big kids yesterday. A half hearted handshake, whether genuine or not, would have difused the whole situation and they could have got on with concentrating on the football for which they are both handsomely paid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beag_teeets Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 I think both suarez and evra acted like big kids yesterday. A half hearted handshake, whether genuine or not, would have difused the whole situation and they could have got on with concentrating on the football for which they are both handsomely paid. Which is what Evra went for, he put his hand out, Suarez ignored it and went straight for De Gea, the first thing De Gea has caught all season to be fair. Evra looked peed off that once again Suarez (and by extension LFC) was being a dick over this whole thing. As you say, a half hearted touching of hands would have started to draw a line under this but here we are again, talking about something that happened on a pitch that doesn't involve a ball, we had commentary and replays of the line up on MoTD FFS. Evra was a bit of a dick at the end bouncing and waving like a loon, even Fergie said as much, no sure if he said the same when G Neville did much worse against Liverpool a while back. Not shaking Evra's hand makes Suarez look like the villain of the piece, he's only been there half a season and already got the scouse victim mentality down perfectly. The sport I love to watch is an absolute joke, full of knobs on the pitch, in the dugouts, in the stands, in the media and running the whole thing. The whole line up shakey hand thing is bollocks dreamt up in some stupid committee room by people who have no idea about the game, they only started doing it recently, the game was fine without it. I agree with Diego that to drop it now in response to this would be wrong but it should be phased out, brings nothing and delays kick off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opinions4u Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Liverpool MD admits Suarez in the wrong (and misled Dalglish) Suarez says sorry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
palmer1 Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Evra was not going to shake his hand in the 1st place! watch his hand its lowers away afetr shaking other palyers hands just before Suarez, once he realised Suarez missed him out he made a point of grabbing his hand and looking down the camera, to the camers ffs Ferdinand wasnt even looking and had decided not to shake anyway, his whole body language says so! Suarez should have shaken hands and Evra should not have made a point of celbrating in front pf Suarez, it wasnt an accident all 3 players are a disgrace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opinions4u Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 (edited) Evra was not going to shake his hand in the 1st place! All it needed was a vague contact of hand and the job was done. Evra wasn't looking enthusiastic about things, who would, but he was ready for that contact. Ferdinand wasnt even looking and had decided not to shake anyway, his whole body language says so! I would totally ignore this part of the whole incident. It means nothing. It's pointless. Suarez should have shaken hands and Evra should not have made a point of celbrating in front pf Suarez, it wasnt an accident I think it might well have been coincidence. Evra did that celebration around the whole pitch. He was at the end of his "run" as Suarez left the field. While it was completely OTT (remember Gary Neville?) I don't think it was deliberately timed to coincide Suarez' exit. Edited February 12, 2012 by opinions4u Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
palmer1 Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 (edited) All it needed was a vague contact of hand and the job was done. Evra wasn't looking enthusiastic about things, who would, but he was ready for that contact. I would totally ignore this part of the whole incident. It means nothing. It's pointless. I think it might well have been coincidence. Evra did that celebration around the whole pitch. He was at the end of his "run" as Suarez left the field. While it was completely OTT (remember Gary Neville?) I don't think it was deliberately timed to coincide Suarez' exit. of course it was timed for his exit! does he do a lap of honour every week i why was he making his point to the camaera, instead of the officials suarez should have shaken his hand but he was by no means the only man at fault yesterday, like its being made out Edited February 12, 2012 by palmer1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 G Neville did much worse against Liverpool a while back. Seriously? Gary Neville divides opinion, but whether you loathe him or hate him his symbolic humping of the entire Kop was a moment that will stay in the memory long after many the fine goal or match has slipped away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opinions4u Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 G Neville did much worse against Liverpool How I would love Latics players to celebrate victory with a similar passion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Ritchie Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Jimmy: There's gonna be a war between the blacks and between the whites. You ain't even gonna need a uniform no more. This ain't gonna be a war where you pick your side. Your side's already picked for you. Ray: And I know whose side I'm fighting on. I'm fighting with the blacks. The whites are gonna get their heads kicked in! Jimmy: You don't decide this :censored:, man. Ray: Well, who are the half-castes gonna fight with? Jimmy: The blacks, man. That's obvious. Ray: But what about the Pakistanis? Jimmy: The blacks. Ray: What about... Think of a hard one. What about the Vietnamese? Jimmy: The blacks! Ray: Well, I'm definitely fighting with the blacks if they've got the Vietnamese. So, hang on. Would all of the white midgets in the world be fighting against all the black midgets in the world? Jimmy: Yeah. Ray: That would make a good film! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevie_J Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Suarez doesn't like Evra. He didn't want to shake his hand. I don't see the problem here. Regardless of what you think about the whole shaking hands routine, it's part of their job. They should do it, regardless of whether they like one another. Same goes for that pathetic excuse, Wayne Bridge. Imagine the reaction if we refused to shake someone's hand in a work environment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diego_Sideburns Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 We've had Sepp Blatter criticised, quite rightly, by the FA for saying racism issues should be settled with a handshake. Now we have the FA saying refusing to shake hands is not a disciplinary offence, and no action is to be taken over Saturday's events. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diego_Sideburns Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Aston Villa mascot turns Suarez's error of judgement into a trend. Laughing broadcasters hypocritical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorrro Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Scratch2000uk Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 (edited) In that clip it looks like Evras hand is not so outstretched or even held out,in fact it looks like he lowers and retracts it. Edited February 13, 2012 by Scratch2000uk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorrro Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Precisely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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