Matt Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 i am merely trying to point out,that if the club wanted to do a similar scheme... The club don't want to do it Ed, I'm sorry mate, it looks like you are hoping that they will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 The club don't want to do it Ed, I'm sorry mate, it looks like you are hoping that they will. I think alot of us lot would like to see it happen because it would get us in cheap....I know I wouldnt say no.... But I am pritty sure its not in the best intrest of the club....I think they would lose out... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
real Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 the trouble with a sat/evening season ticket only is that the fixtures only get released in june, after the season ticket deadline, meaning they couldnt possibly know how many matches such a ticket would be valid for. would you offer them at a discounted rate even after the discounted period is up? the whole point of the discount is to get money into the club early to help outwith summer running costs also, what would happen if,say, a sat game got called off and rearanged for a tuesday night? i do agree it is an idea worth looking at though. I haven't checked, but I asume there's usually 7 or so evening matches, and the rest are saturdays. I'd suggest that they base it on 20 games, splitting them 13/7 so that a few matches are missing to allow for games that end up being re-arranged. The voucher books could be printed with 10 numbered tickets and 3 "open" tickets for a Saturday book / 5 numbered and 2 open for evenings? (open tickets only valid for a Sat or Eve). The 10 numbered tickets correspond to the first 10 games, the last 3 can be used for any games after that? If it ends up that there were less than 7 evening matches, you give a refund. But how likely is that? Same with Saturdays, but there's no way that there will be less than 13. The combined price of a Sat and an Eve would have to near enough match a full ST so that there's no incentive for normal ST'ers to swap to a Sat/Eve, so £15 a game for the RRE would do it (£300) You could maybe include some open vouchers for £16 admission to an extra 5 games whether Saturday or Evening? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 i understand fully what your saying .................. you can mock n take the mickey out of my suggestions all you like,but other clubs up and down the country have a presence in there local town centre,and always seem to be running some form of incentive scheme or other to catch peoples imaginations....the simple fact of the matter is that we dont..... I don't think that you have understood what I am saying. I am certainly not mocking or taking the mickey - just wanted to point out that there is a difference between people saying what they would do and people doing hat they say they will do. I think that the club have looked at this and decided against it. Due to this fact, there is no point in cavassing public opinion as this would just wind people up. "If we reduced prices would you come?" "Yes" "Well we have looked into it and will not be dropping prices" "Well why did you ask me then?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaskedOwl Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 The vast majority of people seem to be against cheap season tickets so its bound to be a non-starter. However, there are some good ideas coming out of this. I hope the club are thinking hard of ways to attract more fans. Maybe a better approach when it comes to cup games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluehobbit Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 " I hope the club are thinking hard of ways to attract more fans. Maybe a better approach when it comes to cup games." How do u mean? in terms of match day prices for cup games? I must admit the pay of the day price for some cup games puts me off going and judging by the 3k turn outs we get others as well. For games like this (im thinking the likes of carlises a few seasons back when we went out on pens it was freeezing and the match dire) surley it would be better to drop any notion off taking money on the day and and just try and get people in the ground. Especially kids they have a nag factor that few parents can resist. Which could spill over into the league - problem is there the pay on the day price is still way to high Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghostofcecere Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 Still don't see why Bradford, Huddersfield and Vale can so their sums and find out that they would not lose out but Latics think they would. Certainly in the case of Vale we are a similar sized club, so what works for them should work for us. IMO Latics should look for the breakeven point and decide if it's worth while, not whether or not they would turn a profit. If 9000 £100 tickets gets the revenue we get now with 3000 £300 tickets then do it. One things for sure the atmosphere that is so sadly lacking from BP these days would come back with 9000+ in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookers87 Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 Still don't see why Bradford, Huddersfield and Vale can so their sums and find out that they would not lose out but Latics think they would. Certainly in the case of Vale we are a similar sized club, so what works for them should work for us. IMO Latics should look for the breakeven point and decide if it's worth while, not whether or not they would turn a profit. If 9000 £100 tickets gets the revenue we get now with 3000 £300 tickets then do it. One things for sure the atmosphere that is so sadly lacking from BP these days would come back with 9000+ in. As has been pointed out in many posts above, it is a matter of the free space in the stadiums. Vale have a stadium that is vastly undercapacity (as have bradford and hudds) which means that they can treble the ticket holders to get as close to the losses in revenue, whilst leaving still more room for pay on the day fans that further contributes to plugging the gap left by the offer. The current BP just hasn't the capacity to make the sums work. I think as Hardy has pointed out, they HAVE looked at the breakeven point and the losses are just too big. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaskedOwl Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 " I hope the club are thinking hard of ways to attract more fans. Maybe a better approach when it comes to cup games." How do u mean? in terms of match day prices for cup games? I must admit the pay of the day price for some cup games puts me off going and judging by the 3k turn outs we get others as well. For games like this (im thinking the likes of carlises a few seasons back when we went out on pens it was freeezing and the match dire) surley it would be better to drop any notion off taking money on the day and and just try and get people in the ground. Especially kids they have a nag factor that few parents can resist. Which could spill over into the league - problem is there the pay on the day price is still way to high I think a lot of people don't go to cup games because they have already forked out for a season ticket and the prices are too high. I know when i had a season ticket it was always a bit of a pain paying for the extra matches that i wanted to go to. There will always be a hardcore group of fans that shell out for season tickets and cup games but we need to attract those people who 'um and r' about going when its a cup game. How much are the home friendlies going to cost? I think they should be massively reduced to try and attract those fans that have chosen not to buy a season ticket and are doubting attending the first match of the season. Maybe get a few new fans through the door. The club could say that if you attend all the home friendlies (at a reduced price) then the first match of the season will be at the price season ticket holders pay per match. Maybe the club could do an offer like, if you attend the first round cup match then the second round ticket will be half price (obviously if we dont get knocked out). I certainly think LDV matches should be at a big reduced price. Always midweek with crap weather. Kids going free to certain matches too. Just some ideas...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stitch_KTF Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 Still don't see why Bradford, Huddersfield and Vale can so their sums and find out that they would not lose out but Latics think they would. Certainly in the case of Vale we are a similar sized club, so what works for them should work for us. IMO Latics should look for the breakeven point and decide if it's worth while, not whether or not they would turn a profit. If 9000 £100 tickets gets the revenue we get now with 3000 £300 tickets then do it. One things for sure the atmosphere that is so sadly lacking from BP these days would come back with 9000+ in. 'Head banging against wall smiley' please mods?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stitch_KTF Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 I think a lot of people don't go to cup games because they have already forked out for a season ticket and the prices are too high. I know when i had a season ticket it was always a bit of a pain paying for the extra matches that i wanted to go to. There will always be a hardcore group of fans that shell out for season tickets and cup games but we need to attract those people who 'um and r' about going when its a cup game. How much are the home friendlies going to cost? I think they should be massively reduced to try and attract those fans that have chosen not to buy a season ticket and are doubting attending the first match of the season. Maybe get a few new fans through the door. The club could say that if you attend all the home friendlies (at a reduced price) then the first match of the season will be at the price season ticket holders pay per match. Maybe the club could do an offer like, if you attend the first round cup match then the second round ticket will be half price (obviously if we dont get knocked out). I certainly think LDV matches should be at a big reduced price. Always midweek with crap weather. Kids going free to certain matches too. Just some ideas...... Reasonable ideas just maybe a little complicated? LDV games are already vastly reduced....a fiver I think. How about this super duper original idea......bring back the membership scheme!! £30/£40(?) membership per season then £15 pay on the day (anybody who attends 9/10 games or more would begin to make a saving) plus good deals on away game travel and preference for big game tickets (after season ticket holders of course). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghostofcecere Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 'Head banging against wall smiley' please mods?? Look I can't be arsed scrolling through all the posts but, just get a calculator. The capacity now is 10,638, minus 1,600 we would have to give to away fans which leaves a potential for 9,038 season ticket holders. Charge them £100 and you would get £903,800 in revenue, but charge £120 and it becomes in excess of £1M. I don't know the exact figure of season tickets sales this year but if it's 3000 and lets say they have paid an average of £330 it raises £990,000. My point is with a bit of ambition and decent marketing we should be looking to get those people back inside the stadium, then if/when the new stand is built maybe some of them will renew at a higher price. Who knows really, but I feel we have to do something as in terms of support, the club is dying on it's arse. I fear for the future unless something changes. We've signed a few players without really touching the Trotters/Everton money so why didn't we invest in getting few fans back with whatever is left over? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 Look I can't be arsed scrolling through all the posts but, just get a calculator. The capacity now is 10,638, minus 1,600 we would have to give to away fans which leaves a potential for 9,038 season ticket holders. Charge them £100 and you would get £903,800 in revenue, but charge £120 and it becomes in excess of £1M. I don't know the exact figure of season tickets sales this year but if it's 3000 and lets say they have paid an average of £330 it raises £990,000. My point is with a bit of ambition and decent marketing we should be looking to get those people back inside the stadium, then if/when the new stand is built maybe some of them will renew at a higher price. Who knows really, but I feel we have to do something as in terms of support, the club is dying on it's arse. I fear for the future unless something changes. We've signed a few players without really touching the Trotters/Everton money so why didn't we invest in getting few fans back with whatever is left over? Rick, you are missing something in your calculations. Average home attendance currently includes both Season Ticket Holders and Pay On The Gate Supporters. If we averaged 4000 Home fans each game, you have missed out on a further £20,000 per home match in revenue. If these walk up supporters get STs, we don't get this revenue every other week. As far as trying to think of ways to entice more people down to BP, I reckon that I have sussed what we need to do. How about developing a team that plays attractive football and challenges for automatic promotion? Maybe a bit of a cup run? Remember what happened back in the Pinch Me Era? Then we get even more walk up support and therefore more money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inspiral_Carpet Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 Look I can't be arsed scrolling through all the posts but, just get a calculator. The capacity now is 10,638, minus 1,600 we would have to give to away fans which leaves a potential for 9,038 season ticket holders. Charge them £100 and you would get £903,800 in revenue, but charge £120 and it becomes in excess of £1M. I don't know the exact figure of season tickets sales this year but if it's 3000 and lets say they have paid an average of £330 it raises £990,000. My point is with a bit of ambition and decent marketing we should be looking to get those people back inside the stadium, then if/when the new stand is built maybe some of them will renew at a higher price. Who knows really, but I feel we have to do something as in terms of support, the club is dying on it's arse. I fear for the future unless something changes. We've signed a few players without really touching the Trotters/Everton money so why didn't we invest in getting few fans back with whatever is left over? Your proposal though would mean the only additional income during the Season would come from away fans and most of the Clubs in our league bring less than 500. We may only have 3000 ST holders but the lowest home fan crowd last year was 3600. The highest was probably around 7500 but I can't be arsed checking. In other words, you are planning to remove the income from those additional 600 to 4500 people who pay on the day. At £20 a pop, that is anything between £12k to £90k dependent on the Match. It could be higher than that (potentiall £120k) if we are doing well and filling the home ends with 6000 "casual supporters" for certain big games. Over the course of a Season, you may be looking at lost income of around £1m. Unlike Huddersfield, we don't have anyone prepared to under-write that loss. It's a non-starter until we have a stadium big enough to employ such tactics as reduced priced Season Tickets - and even then, £100 would be financial suicide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaskedOwl Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 Rick, you are missing something in your calculations. Average home attendance currently includes both Season Ticket Holders and Pay On The Gate Supporters. If we averaged 4000 Home fans each game, you have missed out on a further £20,000 per home match in revenue. If these walk up supporters get STs, we don't get this revenue every other week. As far as trying to think of ways to entice more people down to BP, I reckon that I have sussed what we need to do. How about developing a team that plays attractive football and challenges for automatic promotion? Maybe a bit of a cup run? Remember what happened back in the Pinch Me Era? Then we get even more walk up support and therefore more money. I think you are missing the point because that is totally out of our hands and down to the players and staff. What we are doing here is trying to think of ways to get bums on seats before a ball is kicked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 I think you are missing the point because that is totally out of our hands and down to the players and staff. What we are doing here is trying to think of ways to get bums on seats before a ball is kicked. I am not missing the point. What I want the board and other staff at Latics to do is entice people back with the product on the pitch, not a reduced cost of entry. The club have looked at this type of proposal and ruled it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stitch_KTF Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 (edited) Look I can't be arsed scrolling through all the posts but, just get a calculator. The capacity now is 10,638, minus 1,600 we would have to give to away fans which leaves a potential for 9,038 season ticket holders. Charge them £100 and you would get £903,800 in revenue, but charge £120 and it becomes in excess of £1M. I don't know the exact figure of season tickets sales this year but if it's 3000 and lets say they have paid an average of £330 it raises £990,000. My point is with a bit of ambition and decent marketing we should be looking to get those people back inside the stadium, then if/when the new stand is built maybe some of them will renew at a higher price. Who knows really, but I feel we have to do something as in terms of support, the club is dying on it's arse. I fear for the future unless something changes. We've signed a few players without really touching the Trotters/Everton money so why didn't we invest in getting few fans back with whatever is left over? Mate, totally appreciate your concerns. Indeed I share them - no young lads are becoming latics fans!! However, we only attracted that many fans when it was £2 to get in for a 1 off, sorry, '2 off'. Offering 23 games for £4.35 each (£100 season ticket) or £5.22 each (£120) is, to me at least, a much less attractive proposition. I dont really think the issue is lack of seats, we havent the fans anymore anyway. For example I dont think we would sell many more than 8000 tickets at £100 each. Then I think only 6000/6500 of those would turn up for the average fixture, of which 500/1000 probably would have done anyway at £20 a pop thus costing the club £10k - £20k a game. Additional season ticket sales cannot be used to offset this because they are already making up the losses of the 3500 tickets that could have been sold at £300+. So saying a £15000 loss per game equates to £345,000, or a 50% increase on annual losses. I dont think the extra fans (who to me are only interested in a cheap ticket) are worth footing the shortfall for. It's not even like they are the ones who would create an atmosphere. And the notion of them spending money in the ground is pie in the sky.......refreshment outlets are at capacity anyway and beside, aren't the areas sub-let??? Much better to start of the season with a bang and get 3000+ fans paying £20 a game wishing they had bought a ST!! Then maybe they would the following season....... Also I think under 12's should be FREE and 12-16's £2. GET 'EM NAGGING AND GET 'EM HOOKED!!!!!!!!! EDIT: That's free and £2 when accompanied by an adult. Edited June 10, 2008 by Stitch_KTF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yard Dog Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 I think a scheme similar to the one run at Bradford can work, albeit on smaller scale. Unfortunately, TTA do not. I agree that with the reduced capacity next season it should probably be avoided for now though. With these Bradford-type schemes, people rightly worry about the loss of income from the pay-on-the-dayers....can we make back what lose from pay-on-the-dayers by seeing other income streams increase..???..I don't think we will lose ALL our pay-on-the-dayers, there will still be some pay on the days from both Latics and away fans. There is also the increase in both match-day and non-match day sales to consider, plus I think Latics would be able to increase their income from sponsorship if they can say to sponsors that there will be twice as many fans in the ground and that the club's profile is larger. Anyway, a scheme similar to Bradford's is not going to happen.....and other ideas need to be thought of....I know this is one that crops up often, but I really think entry should be free for kids...they are the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghostofcecere Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 Rick, you are missing something in your calculations. Average home attendance currently includes both Season Ticket Holders and Pay On The Gate Supporters. If we averaged 4000 Home fans each game, you have missed out on a further £20,000 per home match in revenue. If these walk up supporters get STs, we don't get this revenue every other week. As far as trying to think of ways to entice more people down to BP, I reckon that I have sussed what we need to do. How about developing a team that plays attractive football and challenges for automatic promotion? Maybe a bit of a cup run? Remember what happened back in the Pinch Me Era? Then we get even more walk up support and therefore more money. I don't disagree with what you say Rick; I'm playing Devils Advocate with some of what I say. But the pay on the day fan virtually dissapeared last season when it was clear we had virtually nothing to play for, and I think with the sharp rise in the cost of living at the moment if we don't get off to a flyer this time around we will struggle to get 4000 for all but the local games plus Leicester. I just feel we need some sort of new approach or new idea to get bums back on seats. You and I were lucky enough to live through the 'pinch me' years but also remember the early eighties when things weren't quite so good like now. Hand on heart I don't think we will see times like those again due to the way football has changed in the last 15 or so years. But for us to survive the next 15 years we have to do something different, what we have done the last 15 clearly hasn't worked. We need to get kids interested in watching Latics like we did, and the best way to do that is to get their Dad's (or Mum's!) intersted again, and I think the only way to do that is with some sort of price reduction. We are a good example of a team who support has dwindled as the price has increased (coupled with poor performances on the pitch admittedly) so for me it time to try another way. I thought that the new Stadium would be the way, but I'm also getting very concerned about the lack of 'noise' coming out of the club with this now, I understand the reasons why with the state of the housing market, but the scalling back of the plans for the houses worries me, along with the fact there is no start date now for work on construction of the new stand. Worrying times off the pitch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 I don't disagree with what you say Rick; I'm playing Devils Advocate with some of what I say. But the pay on the day fan virtually dissapeared last season when it was clear we had virtually nothing to play for, and I think with the sharp rise in the cost of living at the moment if we don't get off to a flyer this time around we will struggle to get 4000 for all but the local games plus Leicester. I just feel we need some sort of new approach or new idea to get bums back on seats. You and I were lucky enough to live through the 'pinch me' years but also remember the early eighties when things weren't quite so good like now. Hand on heart I don't think we will see times like those again due to the way football has changed in the last 15 or so years. But for us to survive the next 15 years we have to do something different, what we have done the last 15 clearly hasn't worked. We need to get kids interested in watching Latics like we did, and the best way to do that is to get their Dad's (or Mum's!) intersted again, and I think the only way to do that is with some sort of price reduction. We are a good example of a team who support has dwindled as the price has increased (coupled with poor performances on the pitch admittedly) so for me it time to try another way. I thought that the new Stadium would be the way, but I'm also getting very concerned about the lack of 'noise' coming out of the club with this now, I understand the reasons why with the state of the housing market, but the scalling back of the plans for the houses worries me, along with the fact there is no start date now for work on construction of the new stand. Worrying times off the pitch. Harry's ticket is £50 for the Season and free membership of Boundary Blues (or am I paying for BB and getting a free ST?) What will be interesting is next season for Bradford and Huddersfield depending on where they are league wise. Bradford didn't go up, so would find it difficult to go back to normal prices and it will be interesting to see what Udders do next season too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookers87 Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 (edited) Is £150 too high now they've had a taste of £138?? the tricky second album The Bradford chairman is making phonecalls to try and persuade fans to take up season tickets this season as they are still 3000 tickets short of their 9000 target - having put the ticket price up from the £138 price last season to £150 this... Edited June 10, 2008 by lookers87 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 People who go to 4 or 5 games a season might not go to that many more even with a cheap ST paid for, in which case we could find outselves with a half emtpy ground yet no tickets available on the gate for the bigger matches, which would be a bit crazy. The same problem would rule out iniatitives like free kids in for certain games and any variation of the offers already tried - true, not many of those people were back the next week, but maybe some of them were. IMO the maths seem to be pointing towards the question of how many extra we could get if the price was cut to somewhere around the £200 mark. I doubt it would be enough to justify it, sadly. Cheap/free kids - yes. LDV games - I've felt like the club should be paying me at times It would take a special kid to get the bug from one of them, but you never know. More likely it would be the buzz of a (now occasional) cracking home atmosphere that would get them hooked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldhamSheridan Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 Harry's ticket is £50 for the Season and free membership of Boundary Blues (or am I paying for BB and getting a free ST?) What will be interesting is next season for Bradford and Huddersfield depending on where they are league wise. Bradford didn't go up, so would find it difficult to go back to normal prices and it will be interesting to see what Udders do next season too. I think Huddersfield is a one-off (unless of stupid success I would guess) due to their centenary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 Is £150 too high now they've had a taste of £138?? the tricky second album The Bradford chairman is making phonecalls to try and persuade fans to take up season tickets this season as they are still 3000 tickets short of their 9000 target - having put the ticket price up from the £138 price last season to £150 this... So it looks like their cut off is close of play Sunday. As of close of play yesterday, they had sold. 8445 tickets - 6579 Adult and 1866 Concessions They need to hit 9000 adult season tickets to trigger the BOGOF clause. Their Joint-Chairman has personally telephoned 3000 fans and 60-70% say they will renew. If 70% renew and they are all adult season tickets, that will put them on 8679 Adult ST sales. Not quite the 13,765 average attendance of last season. Perhaps the £150 is too much, people simply gave it a try last season but didn't see it as good value or didn't like the price rise. I reckon Latics best bet is to sit and watch what happens "over't ill" at Bratfurd and Uddersfield before doing anything similar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
footy68 Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 Udders away to home percentage will be in tatters. 16000 at home 200 away, unlike the mighty Latics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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