TheBigDog Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 Sheridan also revealed that he was planning to bring in a sports psychologist this week to help the younger players as the battle for promotion play-off places hots up (from MEN report) mmm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddog Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 I may be biased, but I think it's a good idea - although not just for the younger players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sheridans_world Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 I may be biased, but I think it's a good idea - although not just for the younger players. You'll be seeing Sean Gregan soon! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddog Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 You'll be seeing Sean Gregan soon! Why? Does he have a Learning Disability? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sheridans_world Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 Why? Does he have a Learning Disability? No but he'll come in swearing blind he doesnt drink Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wardlelatic Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 Sheridan also revealed that he was planning to bring in a sports psychologist this week to help the younger players as the battle for promotion play-off places hots up (from MEN report) mmm A great idea... The club should have a Sports Scientist on the pay roll Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macca Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 I'd sack the chaplin though, obviously not upto the job! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaticsPete Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 (edited) I'd sack the chaplin though, obviously not upto the job! Charlie out! He's a joke. Edited February 8, 2009 by LaticsPete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudemedic Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 Sports psychologists and sports scientists don't come cheap. I met one at Middlesbrough and I reckon he was on about £25k/year and he was the more junior of the two. That's fine in the Prem. where most of your squad are on that in a week. However, at our level some of the players won't make that in a year (certainly the younger ones who aren't on very good contracts) and it seems silly to pay that much for someone not playing. A good physio can do the job of a sports scientist (I know a few people who did sports science at uni and they weren't the brightest people) and a very good physio can probably do a bit of sports psychology, a good doctor with the right interest could probably do the job of both. Actually someone like Gregan or Liddell could probably do a lot of what a sports psychologist does through their experiences- but they haven't got the piece of paper which says they can. I'm not saying its not a good idea but I do think its a sort of money balancing issue, in times like we are at the moment (or a relegation battle) it might make a difference but I don't think at our level we can afford to have a sports scientist and a sports psychologist on the staff full-time (if they don't do anything else) when the money can be spent on a new player. If money was no object I'd get some in for sure, but unfortunately we are a club that looses about £500k/year and such things are a bit of an extravagance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chaplain Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 I'd sack the chaplin though, obviously not upto the job! Oh, I say! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAV Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 No but he'll come in swearing blind he doesnt drink I don't Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wardlelatic Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 Sports psychologists and sports scientists don't come cheap. I met one at Middlesbrough and I reckon he was on about £25k/year and he was the more junior of the two. That's fine in the Prem. where most of your squad are on that in a week. However, at our level some of the players won't make that in a year (certainly the younger ones who aren't on very good contracts) and it seems silly to pay that much for someone not playing. A good physio can do the job of a sports scientist (I know a few people who did sports science at uni and they weren't the brightest people) and a very good physio can probably do a bit of sports psychology, a good doctor with the right interest could probably do the job of both. Actually someone like Gregan or Liddell could probably do a lot of what a sports psychologist does through their experiences- but they haven't got the piece of paper which says they can. I'm not saying its not a good idea but I do think its a sort of money balancing issue, in times like we are at the moment (or a relegation battle) it might make a difference but I don't think at our level we can afford to have a sports scientist and a sports psychologist on the staff full-time (if they don't do anything else) when the money can be spent on a new player. If money was no object I'd get some in for sure, but unfortunately we are a club that looses about £500k/year and such things are a bit of an extravagance. What a load of all balderdash !! A physio degree and a Sports Science degree are two seperate degrees for a reason ! Some modules are similar and do cross Human Pathology work. Sports Science is the study of Human performance in a sporting activity ! SC looks at the needs of a human in a sports capacity physically, mentally & emotionally through the medium of sporting performance. Bio Chemisty, Biomechanics , Psychology and Social issues are all taken into account to improve sporting performance. physiotherapy is a health care profession which provides services to individuals and populations to develop, maintain and restore maximum movement and functional ability throughout life. Sports Scienists salary depends on the industry sector they are employed in NHS, private or Sporting and can range from £18 k to 80k A good doctor !!! It took 9 weeks for my GP to diagnose my medial ligament injury, it took my physio 15 mins ! Doctor have on the most very little time for sporting injuries unless they deal specifically with Sports Medicine. A doctor with very little knowledge of sporting injuries both physical or mental shouldnt advise on sub acute injuries. I had 4 months off University and nearly lost my place on my SPORT SCIENCE course because of such a doctor !! The right staff is never an extravagance in any business, Latics could easily get a 4 th year Degree student or a 1st 2 nd year PHD sports psychologist for very little money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 I would have thought the intention would be to get a number of sessions with a freelancer, as opposed to a permanent/full time appointment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wardlelatic Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 I would have thought the intention would be to get a number of sessions with a freelancer, as opposed to a permanent/full time appointment. Yep, getting someone in on work experience or to help with their thesis maybe the best soluction for everyone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudemedic Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 What a load of all balderdash !! A physio degree and a Sports Science degree are two seperate degrees for a reason ! Some modules are similar and do cross Human Pathology work. Sports Science is the study of Human performance in a sporting activity ! SC looks at the needs of a human in a sports capacity physically, mentally & emotionally through the medium of sporting performance. Bio Chemisty, Biomechanics , Psychology and Social issues are all taken into account to improve sporting performance. physiotherapy is a health care profession which provides services to individuals and populations to develop, maintain and restore maximum movement and functional ability throughout life. Sports Scienists salary depends on the industry sector they are employed in NHS, private or Sporting and can range from £18 k to 80k A good doctor !!! It took 9 weeks for my GP to diagnose my medial ligament injury, it took my physio 15 mins ! Doctor have on the most very little time for sporting injuries unless they deal specifically with Sports Medicine. A doctor with very little knowledge of sporting injuries both physical or mental shouldnt advise on sub acute injuries. I had 4 months off University and nearly lost my place on my SPORT SCIENCE course because of such a doctor !! The right staff is never an extravagance in any business, Latics could easily get a 4 th year Degree student or a 1st 2 nd year PHD sports psychologist for very little money. To take your points 1 by 1, I didn't say a physiotherapy degree and a sports science degree aren't different- just that I think a GOOD physio could also be a sports scientist as they can understand and explain the various bits a sports scientist does and hopefully crunch the numbers- which was a fair proportion of the job the sports scientist I met did. A lot of the physios in the NHS do what you say a physio does (but I bet you are underestimating what they do), but I'd bet our physios do that and a bit more and someone like Lee Noble (sp?) or Dave Roberts can do a bit more on top of that. Plus how do you think they learned how to do it I bet it featured biomechanics (I've had more than one of those lectures BTW) and biochemistry (ditto) they might not have called it that but that is what it was. Now as for the GOOD doctor bit- your GP- and no offense to him/her- doesn't sound all that good if they don't diagnose a medial ligament tear after 9 weeks (did you go 9 times BTW) but its very hard to diagnose things like that without a proper scan (which takes about 9 weeks) straight away due to all the swelling and restruction of movement anyway. I expect you went to see your physio after the 9 weeks and a poor physio could diagnose a medial ligament tear by then- in fact I'd have been embarrassed if i had missed in in my 3rd year of medical school. I did also say in my original post a good doctor with the right interest could do both, I've done a bit of sports medicine in my degree and I got to observe the doctor who co-wrote this country's book on the subject and trust me he took into account the health of the person (and health in terms of the biopsychosocial model- which is what most doctors and health care professionals should be doing- and takes into account the biological, psychological and social issues of health). A bog standard run of the mill GP is NOT good enough to do this and I never said they were. A good GP might be able to do it if they were lucky, but I bet a good GP with something of an interest in sports injuries (or someone who specifically does that) could do it. I would hope the doctors Oldham use (I don't know them personally- but my parents do) might be in this category (or one of them anyway). A consultant in sports medicine (of which there aren't a lot of in this country) could probably do it in their sleep. Your right a doctor with little knowledge on such matters shouldn't be advising people about what to do with such injuries but they should know someone who can and refer you on, even if that person isn't a doctor and if they don't they aren't doing their job IMHO (since part of a GPs job is to do exactly that). I'm sorry you almost lost your place on a sports science course as a result- although to discriminate against someone who is disabled is against the law As to the staffing bit what would you rather have the on loan left back who clears the ball of the line on more than one occassion to save points or the sports scientist/ sports psychologist who can work out why the ball went in and how it might be stopped- I know which one I'd choose. I would agree the right staff is NEVER an extravagance but I would say some staff are more important than others and we don't have a lot of money so its up to you. Have the sports scientist/psychologist/whoever if you want, if it was my money I'd spend it on players and get the physio to do what he can do and try and cajole the doctor(s) into doing their bit too. If we have money left over and our player budget is going spare (which it might be) then by all means get any experts in (which is what the club are doing) but to have a full time permanent sports scientist on the books is not as good a use of money IMHO (I almost put waste but realised that would be wrong as i don't think a sports scientist/psychologist wouldn't be useful just other people are more useful). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 Yep, getting someone in on work experience or to help with their thesis maybe the best soluction for everyone I was thinking someone more experienced than that, but I guess they'd be cheap! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc1955 Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 Sheridan also revealed that he was planning to bring in a sports psychologist this week to help the younger players as the battle for promotion play-off places hots up (from MEN report) mmm In the same paper it also states that we will move for Kilkenny this week providing he hadn't signed for Brighton on a permanent deal during the window!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikejh45 Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 Bring John Harbin back!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danoafc Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 Bring John Harbin back!!! We were saying more or less the same thing on the minibus home yesterday morning. We were remarking on how frustrating it is that we can serve up dross like we have at home , like against Yeovil, Hudds, Swindon for 70 mins etc, yet the players are perfectly capable of pulling a far higher performance out of the bag when needed. It must be a psycholigical/attitude thing, and hopefully a sports psychologist will be able to get inside the players heads and help them to believe that we really can do it, if the application is there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBigDog Posted February 9, 2009 Author Share Posted February 9, 2009 We were saying more or less the same thing on the minibus home yesterday morning. We were remarking on how frustrating it is that we can serve up dross like we have at home , like against Yeovil, Hudds, Swindon for 70 mins etc, yet the players are perfectly capable of pulling a far higher performance out of the bag when needed. It must be a psycholigical/attitude thing, and hopefully a sports psychologist will be able to get inside the players heads and help them to believe that we really can do it, if the application is there. I tend to agree - Players like Smalley and Taylor can only benefit from a good ol' dose of sports psychology - Sheridan has often said that Smalley in particular needs more self belief/confidence - if the SP can bring this out then we will have a hell of a player for the rest of the season Oh - but just keep him away from the old guys - it will only make him give up the day job Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beag_teeets Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 We were saying more or less the same thing on the minibus home yesterday morning. We were remarking on how frustrating it is that we can serve up dross like we have at home , like against Yeovil, Hudds, Swindon for 70 mins etc, yet the players are perfectly capable of pulling a far higher performance out of the bag when needed. It must be a psycholigical/attitude thing, and hopefully a sports psychologist will be able to get inside the players heads and help them to believe that we really can do it, if the application is there. Not a pop at you Dan, just using your post as it illustrates my point. Can't help the lads at BP knowing that one mis-placed pass or going in at halftime 0-0 will lead to a chorus of boos and abuse? If this thread shows that our players would benefit from a bit of mental edge it stands to reason that all the negativity at BP at times will have a detrimental effect on their mental state and lead to a worse performance. Still, if money has been paid then I'm sure people are entitled to their opinion and express it how they want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danoafc Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 Not a pop at you Dan, just using your post as it illustrates my point. Can't help the lads at BP knowing that one mis-placed pass or going in at halftime 0-0 will lead to a chorus of boos and abuse? If this thread shows that our players would benefit from a bit of mental edge it stands to reason that all the negativity at BP at times will have a detrimental effect on their mental state and lead to a worse performance. Still, if money has been paid then I'm sure people are entitled to their opinion and express it how they want. That doesn't explain the likes of Hereford away though does it Tony? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beag_teeets Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 True. That game was a blip if you ask me, actually fits in pretty well on this thread. They went into it in the wrong mental state, as they had pummelled them at home, just had Windass added to the squad they collectively thought they would turn up and get the points. Hereford on the other hand pulled their tripe out as one of the league's "big guns" were coming to town, one who had hardly given them a touch of the ball in the reverse fixture and I bet their manager had them drilled and pumped for that game. Could even be that the players themselves knew they had to raise their game to get avoid another thrashing and we showed what a load of numpties we are at times. Hereford got lucky with the first goal - a long throw that should've been dealt with and they drew confidence from that and we just got sloppier as we were waiting for the Taylors, Hugheses and Windasses to go and win the match for us. If we had levelled the game with that chance at 1-0 we probably would have gone on to win. We didn't and before long it was 2, once it got to 3 it was game over. Perhaps if we had nicked one at this point we may have managed to get a draw but we didn't and we got what we deserved, I think the phrase "lucky to get nil" was written for that game. Next game, Stockport - a game that had us playing the Hereford role, Stocky had done us at their place and we made damn sure they didn't at ours - although if we hadn't cleared that one of the line in the first minutes it could've been a cricket score. When our first went in everybody's gloom and nerves were lifted. Swindon - we reverted to billy big balls and got what we deserved, no goals and lucky to get a point - great reaction save from Greg when to be fair Swindon's game plan that day worked better than ours, they wanted it more and a point was a great result for them. Leicester - We were never going to get less than a point from this one were we? We should be disappointed to have only got the one really but if we were offered a point on Friday I bet we would all have taken it. The big one now is Northampton - which team turns up? The one that beats Stocky and draws with Leicester or the one that thinks it can beat Hereford. Say what you like about United but one thing they are good at is beating the worse teams, often said that they play 38 cup finals a year and it is more often than not true. Teams raise their game against them and they have to perform for 95 minutes, sometimes more. A lot of this is down to Fergie and I think a lot of our inconsistency is down to Shez, anyone can motivate a team to have played on Saturday but promotions are won at home against Northampton and Swindon..etc.. Could be argued Shez won the tactical battle with switching Smalley and Taylor and the players didn't need motivating, it is a different story on Saturday though as there will be the tactical battle of breaking down 11 men behind the ball and getting the players up for doing what is needed to do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danoafc Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 (edited) True. That game was a blip if you ask me, actually fits in pretty well on this thread. They went into it in the wrong mental state, as they had pummelled them at home, just had Windass added to the squad they collectively thought they would turn up and get the points. Hereford on the other hand pulled their tripe out as one of the league's "big guns" were coming to town, one who had hardly given them a touch of the ball in the reverse fixture and I bet their manager had them drilled and pumped for that game. Could even be that the players themselves knew they had to raise their game to get avoid another thrashing and we showed what a load of numpties we are at times. Hereford got lucky with the first goal - a long throw that should've been dealt with and they drew confidence from that and we just got sloppier as we were waiting for the Taylors, Hugheses and Windasses to go and win the match for us. If we had levelled the game with that chance at 1-0 we probably would have gone on to win. We didn't and before long it was 2, once it got to 3 it was game over. Perhaps if we had nicked one at this point we may have managed to get a draw but we didn't and we got what we deserved, I think the phrase "lucky to get nil" was written for that game. Next game, Stockport - a game that had us playing the Hereford role, Stocky had done us at their place and we made damn sure they didn't at ours - although if we hadn't cleared that one of the line in the first minutes it could've been a cricket score. When our first went in everybody's gloom and nerves were lifted. Swindon - we reverted to billy big balls and got what we deserved, no goals and lucky to get a point - great reaction save from Greg when to be fair Swindon's game plan that day worked better than ours, they wanted it more and a point was a great result for them. Leicester - We were never going to get less than a point from this one were we? We should be disappointed to have only got the one really but if we were offered a point on Friday I bet we would all have taken it. The big one now is Northampton - which team turns up? The one that beats Stocky and draws with Leicester or the one that thinks it can beat Hereford. Say what you like about United but one thing they are good at is beating the worse teams, often said that they play 38 cup finals a year and it is more often than not true. Teams raise their game against them and they have to perform for 95 minutes, sometimes more. A lot of this is down to Fergie and I think a lot of our inconsistency is down to Shez, anyone can motivate a team to have played on Saturday but promotions are won at home against Northampton and Swindon..etc.. Could be argued Shez won the tactical battle with switching Smalley and Taylor and the players didn't need motivating, it is a different story on Saturday though as there will be the tactical battle of breaking down 11 men behind the ball and getting the players up for doing what is needed to do that. That for me Tony, is the one key point out of all of this. I just don't buy all this business about players being feared of playing at home stuff. I'm sure the moaning does have a small negative effect on players, but for me it's all about the players state of mind. I know you brought United up in your post - their game yesterday was the perfect example of being in the right state of mind. Wet Spam gave them a real tough test, and had enough hances to have won, but was there really any doubt about the outcome? It's all about belief, and preparation. Edited February 9, 2009 by danoafc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimsleftfoot Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 To take your points 1 by 1, I didn't say a physiotherapy degree and a sports science degree aren't different- just that I think a GOOD physio could also be a sports scientist as they can understand and explain the various bits a sports scientist does and hopefully crunch the numbers- which was a fair proportion of the job the sports scientist I met did. A lot of the physios in the NHS do what you say a physio does (but I bet you are underestimating what they do), but I'd bet our physios do that and a bit more and someone like Lee Noble (sp?) or Dave Roberts can do a bit more on top of that. Plus how do you think they learned how to do it I bet it featured biomechanics (I've had more than one of those lectures BTW) and biochemistry (ditto) they might not have called it that but that is what it was. Now as for the GOOD doctor bit- your GP- and no offense to him/her- doesn't sound all that good if they don't diagnose a medial ligament tear after 9 weeks (did you go 9 times BTW) but its very hard to diagnose things like that without a proper scan (which takes about 9 weeks) straight away due to all the swelling and restruction of movement anyway. I expect you went to see your physio after the 9 weeks and a poor physio could diagnose a medial ligament tear by then- in fact I'd have been embarrassed if i had missed in in my 3rd year of medical school. I did also say in my original post a good doctor with the right interest could do both, I've done a bit of sports medicine in my degree and I got to observe the doctor who co-wrote this country's book on the subject and trust me he took into account the health of the person (and health in terms of the biopsychosocial model- which is what most doctors and health care professionals should be doing- and takes into account the biological, psychological and social issues of health). A bog standard run of the mill GP is NOT good enough to do this and I never said they were. A good GP might be able to do it if they were lucky, but I bet a good GP with something of an interest in sports injuries (or someone who specifically does that) could do it. I would hope the doctors Oldham use (I don't know them personally- but my parents do) might be in this category (or one of them anyway). A consultant in sports medicine (of which there aren't a lot of in this country) could probably do it in their sleep. Your right a doctor with little knowledge on such matters shouldn't be advising people about what to do with such injuries but they should know someone who can and refer you on, even if that person isn't a doctor and if they don't they aren't doing their job IMHO (since part of a GPs job is to do exactly that). I'm sorry you almost lost your place on a sports science course as a result- although to discriminate against someone who is disabled is against the law As to the staffing bit what would you rather have the on loan left back who clears the ball of the line on more than one occassion to save points or the sports scientist/ sports psychologist who can work out why the ball went in and how it might be stopped- I know which one I'd choose. I would agree the right staff is NEVER an extravagance but I would say some staff are more important than others and we don't have a lot of money so its up to you. Have the sports scientist/psychologist/whoever if you want, if it was my money I'd spend it on players and get the physio to do what he can do and try and cajole the doctor(s) into doing their bit too. If we have money left over and our player budget is going spare (which it might be) then by all means get any experts in (which is what the club are doing) but to have a full time permanent sports scientist on the books is not as good a use of money IMHO (I almost put waste but realised that would be wrong as i don't think a sports scientist/psychologist wouldn't be useful just other people are more useful). I would doubt that even the top teams would have full time sports psychologists/scientists. They are more like to just buy the services of a practitioner. I would say that some decent doctors etc might be able to do the job but I would have thought that motivational specialists who have a proven track record in the area is what we need. The majority of doctors I have dealt with in the past (including many in my current job) are not exactly the greatest communicators known to man. Personally I think someone with a NLP background tied in with sports psychology would be best. Lee Clark got a such a person in at Huddersfield who helped Johnny Wilkinson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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