OminousPoultry Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 I used to think that as well... Then I woke up... Look, I don't want another Moore situtation... But the dream currently on the table from TTA sounds like we are throwing in the towel... I agree about the social aspect but without the ability to dream and the club looking to kick on...you will find the interest from most supporters will wain... Look around this board for proof... Look - TTA's dream is to leave in the short term with all losses recovered and a trousered profit. BP was a grand dream and they got kicked for it. Look at it as you want but we don't have any cards to play here - we can dream all we want about BP, Ferney Fields or Coal Pit Lane but a private compoany - Brassbank - will decide where they want to build. We should be thinking now what happens after TTA - and using the Trust as a focus for that. I'm not suggesting any form of protest about the move - I believe that's a good thing - but how are we going to have a say in the longer term future of this club? I know a few of the current Trust committee (or whatever they are) and have respect for what they are trying to do - but the Trust is a disorganised shambles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al_bro Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 The land value will recover in a number of years... We hold out for that and the commence with the plans for Oldham Arena... Just one possible option... I don't think TTA want to keep shelling out until land values get back to where they were. However I hope the Failsworth option falls through in some way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OminousPoultry Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 I have been contributing for about 20 years now... yes - you are a paying customer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 yes - you are a paying customer. If I am just a customer then can I declare the product as :censored: and ask for a refund ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OminousPoultry Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 (edited) Sorry but thats bollocks... You only have to look at the Premiership to blow that theory up... or any bank for that matter don't apologise - it's not bollocks. I don't remember any Premiership clubs going out of business. What human organisations should do and what they actually do are 2 separate things. Edited September 19, 2009 by OminousPoultry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 (edited) don't apologise - it's not bollocks. I don't remember any Premiership clubs going out of business. What human organisations should do and what they actually do are 2 separate things. Please tell me how a 1945 psychology theory on human curiosity applies to modern day business Thats it I am out of here Edited September 19, 2009 by oafc0000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boundaryblue80 Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 I look at the demography of the club Why are we any different to what Wigan are demographically??? Other than a Dave Whelan we're no different in terms of our pulling support. To say 12,000 and lower-leaguedom is all we ever aspire to be is a f***ing joke...you think that's going to get people heading down to Failsworth? Especially with 2 Manchester clubs on our doorstep sharing titles between them. At this rate, we'll be able to see our fanbase decline as each one of us pops our clogs coz if that's our aspirations we won't be adding any to it! But then...this is TTA's aspirations...but they won't be here in 5yrs or even less!!! So we should just sit here, accept it, allow that planned for future to lock ourselves into lower leagues forever to happen??? No thanks!!! We've never been a more saleable asset than now...debt free...land...we've said "who would come in and buy us"...I bet they said that at Springfield Park all them years ago. I want the club, lock and stock up for sale. Not this "we're looking for a cash injection." If TTA don't want to redevelop or show why a scaled down version of a redeveloped BP can't work then I want them to put us up for SALE...let tem re-coup their losses and more (which they will) and give someone else a shot!!! I certainly don't support this locking ourselves into this level for eternity. But then as another poster on here alludes...something is going on behind the scenes. CFC2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 Why are we any different to what Wigan are demographically??? Other than a Dave Whelan we're no different in terms of our pulling support. To say 12,000 and lower-leaguedom is all we ever aspire to be is a f***ing joke...you think that's going to get people heading down to Failsworth? Especially with 2 Manchester clubs on our doorstep sharing titles between them. At this rate, we'll be able to see our fanbase decline as each one of us pops our clogs coz if that's our aspirations we won't be adding any to it! But then...this is TTA's aspirations...but they won't be here in 5yrs or even less!!! So we should just sit here, accept it, allow that planned for future to lock ourselves into lower leagues forever to happen??? No thanks!!! We've never been a more saleable asset than now...debt free...land...we've said "who would come in and buy us"...I bet they said that at Springfield Park all them years ago. I want the club, lock and stock up for sale. Not this "we're looking for a cash injection." If TTA don't want to redevelop or show why a scaled down version of a redeveloped BP can't work then I want them to put us up for SALE...let tem re-coup their losses and more (which they will) and give someone else a shot!!! I certainly don't support this locking ourselves into this level for eternity. But then as another poster on here alludes...something is going on behind the scenes. CFC2 Well said.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OminousPoultry Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 Please tell me how a 1945 psychology theory on human curiosity applies to modern day business Thats it I am out of here cor blimey - business is transacted by gibbons in bikinis. If you don't think businesses are run by fear, greed, power, boredom and the need to pay the gas bill it's going to be a long night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 cor blimey - business is transacted by gibbons in bikinis. If you don't think businesses are run by fear, greed, power, boredom and the need to pay the gas bill it's going to be a long night. Business need to be run with growth as the primary concern... Until you can get that through your head then I dont think i will waste my time with you any further Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevie_J Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 Why are we any different to what Wigan are demographically??? Other than a Dave Whelan we're no different in terms of our pulling support. To say 12,000 and lower-leaguedom is all we ever aspire to be is a f***ing joke...you think that's going to get people heading down to Failsworth? Especially with 2 Manchester clubs on our doorstep sharing titles between them. At this rate, we'll be able to see our fanbase decline as each one of us pops our clogs coz if that's our aspirations we won't be adding any to it! But then...this is TTA's aspirations...but they won't be here in 5yrs or even less!!! So we should just sit here, accept it, allow that planned for future to lock ourselves into lower leagues forever to happen??? No thanks!!! We've never been a more saleable asset than now...debt free...land...we've said "who would come in and buy us"...I bet they said that at Springfield Park all them years ago. I want the club, lock and stock up for sale. Not this "we're looking for a cash injection." If TTA don't want to redevelop or show why a scaled down version of a redeveloped BP can't work then I want them to put us up for SALE...let tem re-coup their losses and more (which they will) and give someone else a shot!!! I certainly don't support this locking ourselves into this level for eternity. But then as another poster on here alludes...something is going on behind the scenes. CFC2 I've probably never been in such wholehearted agreement with a posting of yours, Ross. (Just don't mention Craig Davies! ;) ) Having said that I am also in agreement with OP on the idea that the club's existence should never knowingly be put on the line, in an effort to achieve success. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 (edited) I've probably never been in such wholehearted agreement with a posting of yours, Ross. (Just don't mention Craig Davies! ;) ) Having said that I am also in agreement with OP on the idea that the club's existence should never knowingly be put on the line, in an effort to achieve success. A belief that the club can move forward without taking some risks is short sighted though... For example, putting the club up for sale would be a risk... I was not talking about doing another Moore Edited September 19, 2009 by oafc0000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny punkster Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 meanwhile, back to topic. is the trust still "representive" of the fans..the same fans who raised the cash in the first place? or has it turned into a one man band? has he actually listened to the voices of concern and asked the questions to the club on our behalf? if so,where are the answers to these question? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 (edited) meanwhile, back to topic. is the trust still "representive" of the fans..the same fans who raised the cash in the first place? or has it turned into a one man band? has he actually listened to the voices of concern and asked the questions to the club on our behalf? if so,where are the answers to these question? No chance the trust can claim to be representative of the fans I feel... I have asked before how many member they had and I was told something in the region of a 1000... I doubt thats true for a start giving the average attendance at the meetings.... Barry has clearly stated in the past he only takes his own opinion to the board.... so again I would say no.... Edited September 19, 2009 by oafc0000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevie_J Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 Sorry but thats bollocks... You only have to look at the Premiership to blow that theory up... or any bank for that matter I don't think using the banks as an example adds an awful lot of weight to your argument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OminousPoultry Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 Business need to be run with growth as the primary concern... Until you can get that through your head then I dont think i will waste my time with you any further which text book did you get that from? sometimes yes - but sometimes when the product on the pitch is dire, when the cash stops coming in on Saturdays and the major asset value has just hit bottom then survival is the main objective. Why do you expect TTA to be thinking of growth right now? Please - don't waste your time with me any further..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 I don't think using the banks as an example adds an awful lot of weight to your argument. Unless you think we don't live in a capitalist economy then you should... The banks are a prefect example of how capitalising works... The banks take risks, and get massive rewards... Every now and then (not just recently) one will go pop.... The exact same applie to every business... If you just concentrate on survival you will not grow... If you don't grow then in real terms you are only ever going backward... Bloody hell, this is the basics of how a business works Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny punkster Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 No chance the trust can claim to be representative of the fans I feel... I have asked before how many member they had and I was told something in the region of a 1000... I doubt thats true for a start giving the average attendance at the meetings.... Barry has clearly stated in the past he only takes his own opinion to the board.... so again I would say no.... to the point where he ignores the concerns from his trust board members and announces otherwise? oh dear...closed shop eh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 which text book did you get that from? sometimes yes - but sometimes when the product on the pitch is dire, when the cash stops coming in on Saturdays and the major asset value has just hit bottom then survival is the main objective. Why do you expect TTA to be thinking of growth right now? Please - don't waste your time with me any further..... Obviously the same text book as you if you are saying "sometimes yes"... Feel free to contradict yourself further If your concentrating on survival, trust me, administration is around the corner... This is the whole problem, its a plan for survival and in my opinion, a slow death... The oldham arena plans said to me its a plan for growth.... The failsworth plan isnt that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senor_Coconut Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 Obviously the same text book as you if you are saying "sometimes yes"... Feel free to contradict yourself further If your concentrating on survival, trust me, administration is around the corner... This is the whole problem, its a plan for survival and in my opinion, a slow death... The oldham arena plans said to me its a plan for growth.... The failsworth plan isnt that... What plan? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OminousPoultry Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 (edited) No chance the trust can claim to be representative of the fans I feel... I have asked before how many member they had and I was told something in the region of a 1000... I doubt thats true for a start giving the average attendance at the meetings.... Barry has clearly stated in the past he only takes his own opinion to the board.... so again I would say no.... No-one knows how many Trust members there are...... I went to the AGM when several posters on here were elected to the Trust board approx 18 months ago. I hadn't paid my subs - so I produced my Trust membership card and a fiver and handed these across to the membership secretary (no names) who said he'd update his records and post a new card back to me. Not seen anything since. There's probably 1800 who have ever paid into the Trust, 300 who have a valid membership card and 500 who remember what the Trust stands for. I still count myself as a Trust member but I'm not giving any more money to some bloke in a bar who says he's got something for me. Edited September 19, 2009 by OminousPoultry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 No-one knows how many Trust members there are...... I went to the AGM when several posters on here were elected to the Trust board approx 18 months ago. I hadn't paid my subs - so I produced my Trust membership card and a fiver and handed these across to the membership secretary (no names) who said he'd update his records and post a new card back to me. Not seen anything since. There's probably 1800 who have ever paid into the Trust, 300 who have a valid membership card and 500 who remember what the Trust stands for. I still count myself as a Trust member but I'm not giving any more money to some bloke in a bar who says he's got something for me. You mean 800 ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OminousPoultry Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 Obviously the same text book as you if you are saying "sometimes yes"... Feel free to contradict yourself further If your concentrating on survival, trust me, administration is around the corner... This is the whole problem, its a plan for survival and in my opinion, a slow death... The oldham arena plans said to me its a plan for growth.... The failsworth plan isnt that... Lots of Post Offices, cafes and printers are concentrating on survival just at the moment. Some banks are working out how to avoid the implications of Basel II capitalisation changes, some mortgage lenders are working out how to profit from the wash of money in the system. TTA are thinking about how to get the hell out of this :censored:hole with their costs covered and a bit of profit. That's why we are having this debate - different things at different times for different companies. TTA haven't got a survival plan - it's an exit plan. anyway - I'm trying to work out the riff to "A boy named Sue" for Amber. bye Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 TTA are thinking about how to get the hell out of this :censored:hole with their costs covered and a bit of profit. That's why we are having this debate - different things at different times for different companies. TTA haven't got a survival plan - it's an exit plan. A plan that could land this club in a :censored: position for years to come... Seems most the fans have given up.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senor_Coconut Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 A plan that could land this club in a :censored: position for years to come... Seems most the fans have given up.... What do you want the fans to do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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