NIKI1234 Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 (edited) It might. But there'd be a lot better chance of keeping novelty fans if the club won promotion and looked as if it meant business in the Championship. It would be a club with a sense of momentum about it. Kicking around doing routine stuff in this division, or slipping into the one below, just won't have the same effect. As I said-we know this, though. Don't we? In any case-we've already been told we're not getting a 15k stadium. (Wasn't it supposed to be 16k until the Brave New World of Failsworth was unveiled?) We're getting a 12k Colchester-style effort that will have an actual capacity of 10000-odd, that screams small-timeness. But just because the capacity is 12K makes no difference on our chances of promotion to the championship.... Southend, Scunny, Blackpool, Donny, Barnsley, QPR, Peterborough, Reading, Colchester and Plymouth all promoted in past 6 or 7 years and averaged nowhere near 1200 crowds Why cant our 12K seater stadium get us to the championship, why does that have to hold us back when I 100% gaurentee that we would not fill it in this division anyway? Edited September 24, 2009 by NIKI1234 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NIKI1234 Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 It might. But there'd be a lot better chance of keeping novelty fans if the club won promotion and looked as if it meant business in the Championship. It would be a club with a sense of momentum about it. Kicking around doing routine stuff in this division, or slipping into the one below, just won't have the same effect. As I said-we know this, though. Don't we? In any case-we've already been told we're not getting a 15k stadium. (Wasn't it supposed to be 16k until the Brave New World of Failsworth was unveiled?) We're getting a 12k Colchester-style effort that will have an actual capacity of 10000-odd, that screams small-timeness. Is this just made up? What happens to the other 2000 seats Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaticsPete Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 Is this just made up? What happens to the other 2000 seats The "Colchester style effort" is another jibe too. It is used here to describe the architecture and there's absolutely no justification for suggesting it will be like that. The Colchester reference from the club actually referred to community facilities. It suits the agendas of some on here to manipulate and twist .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc1955 Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 Is this just made up? What happens to the other 2000 seats Depends on the design...If its a bowl then a significant amount of capacity may be lost to segregation. If it has 4 sides then one end will be for away fans giving a home capacity of say 9,500. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 (edited) But just because the capacity is 12K makes no difference on our chances of promotion to the championship.... Southend, Scunny, Blackpool, Donny, Barnsley, QPR, Peterborough, Reading, Colchester and Plymouth all promoted in past 6 or 7 years and averaged nowhere near 1200 crowds Why cant our 12K seater stadium get us to the championship, why does that have to hold us back when I 100% gaurentee that we would not fill it in this division anyway? It isn't what's possible, but what the proposed 12000 capacity says about ambition. For a start, at least five of those clubs, no matter what gates they average, have stadiums holding considerably more than 12000. Of course you can get out of the division with a stadium holding less than 12000, or averaging less than that. However, when you consider that this is a club that used to have a stadium considerably bigger than that, as well as the ability to fill it when things were going right, it doesn't exactly fill you with hope that there is any serious intention to do it. It suggests downscaling. And it suggests that the most the club expects to do is make itself sustainable in this division. There is, for reasons already outlined, no guarantee that it will succeed in this, but if it does I'm sure we might see lip-service paid to promotion once again. Incidentally, of all the clubs you mention who are still up there, none currently average the 20000 minimum that Al Bro reckons we'll need to survive in the Championship. Not all of them are struggling. And the pro-little stadium brigade accuse others of making up facts and 'scaremongering'... Edited September 24, 2009 by Corporal_Jones Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 (edited) The "Colchester style effort" is another jibe too. It is used here to describe the architecture and there's absolutely no justification for suggesting it will be like that. The Colchester reference from the club actually referred to community facilities. It suits the agendas of some on here to manipulate and twist .... To be frank other than Alan Hardy saying they will look at making it unique and will look at other stadiums the only other indication was that is would be a similar type of build as Colchester... The thing is Pete... we know so little about the "real" plans that we are all a little worried.. I dont have a "agenda" I just have questions and worries... Edited September 24, 2009 by oafc0000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaticsPete Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 To be frank other than Alan Hardy saying they will look at making it unique and will look at other stadiums the only other indication was that is would be a similar type of build as Colchester... Evidence please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NIKI1234 Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 Depends on the design...If its a bowl then a significant amount of capacity may be lost to segregation. If it has 4 sides then one end will be for away fans giving a home capacity of say 9,500. I realise this but thats the case with every single ground in the country not just ours.... The capacity is still the capacity which ever way you dress it up or down. So when refering to ground capacity in the future we should take into account segregation and take away allocation out It doesnt work like that otherwise we would say Man utd have a capacity of 72K not 77K and Anfield is 41 not 44k bla bla bla.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 Is this just made up? What happens to the other 2000 seats Try to keep up. Several posters in the thread have already explained that, just as a certain number of seats have to be kept free for all-ticket games at BP (and all other grounds), due to police and other safety restrictions, so, too, will this be the case at Failsworth. What will this reduce the capacity to? 11000-odd? 10000? Who knows? What we do know is that it is seriously small-time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 The "Colchester style effort" is another jibe too. It is used here to describe the architecture and there's absolutely no justification for suggesting it will be like that. The Colchester reference from the club actually referred to community facilities. It suits the agendas of some on here to manipulate and twist .... It's speculating based on the way things are being presented to us, Peter. Nobody is forced to believe anything. It seems to be that those who are sceptical about the move are not the biggest manipulators in all this... As I say, though-you will see... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NIKI1234 Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 (edited) It isn't what's possible, but what the proposed 12000 capacity says about ambition. For a start, at least five of those clubs, no matter what gates they average, have stadiums holding considerably more than 12000. Of course you can get out of the division with a stadium holding less than 12000, or averaging less than that. However, when you consider that this is a club that used to have a stadium considerably bigger than that, as well as the ability to fill it when things were going right, it doesn't exactly fill you with hope that there is any serious intention to do it. It suggests downscaling. And it suggests that the most the club expects to do is make itself sustainable in this division. There is, for reasons already outlined, no guarantee that it will succeed in this, but if it does I'm sure we might see lip-service paid to promotion once again. Incidentally, of all the clubs you mention who are still up there, none currently average the 20000 minimum that Al Bro reckons we'll need to survive in the Championship. Not all of them are struggling. And the pro-little stadium brigade accuse others of making up facts and 'scaremongering'... Exactly! We could get promotion and survive like these other clubs manage to do... You never know after a few years in there like these clubs we could dream of expanding our 12k stadium like blackpool and plymouth did. Edited September 24, 2009 by NIKI1234 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daznathe Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 i havent read all of this thoroughly, but another thing ive thought of is all ticket games. the police like to enforce all ticket on us whenever theres a sniff of a full house, and our fans seem not to like this and dont bother going. ive even done it myself several times as i didnt know until the day of the game whether i could go. if we had a 16000 ground this is less likely to happen than in a 12000 ground, so i reckon we will suffer financially when we play big games. the more i think on 12000 the less and less i like it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 I dont have a "agenda" I just have questions and worries... The word 'agenda' has really come into its own ever since the advent of the internet. Everybody has got to have 'an agenda' it seems. It's a good way of discrediting an argument you don't like-just accuse them of having 'an agenda.' As if those anonymous and disconnected voices powerlessly speculating on here could possibly have any kind of agenda. The only ones with an agenda are those who are driving this move along. Not the sceptics nor the Nodding Dogs, but those controlling the issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaticsPete Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 The word 'agenda' has really come into its own ever since the advent of the internet. Everybody has got to have 'an agenda' it seems. It's a good way of discrediting an argument you don't like-just accuse them of having 'an agenda.' As if those anonymous and disconnected voices powerlessly speculating on here could possibly have any kind of agenda. The only ones with an agenda are those who are driving this move along. Not the sceptics nor the Nodding Dogs, but those controlling the issue. No agenda to stop the move then? No agenda to create a swell of opinion against it? Because surely some of those that are against the proposal would like to do so? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 (edited) Exactly! We could get promotion and survive like these other clubs manage to do... You never know after a few years in there like these clubs we could dream of expanding our 12k stadium like blackpool and plymouth did. Blackpool is a red-herring. The capacity their ground is being extended to was in the plan in the first place. They simply ran out of money. Extension is not taking place primarily because they got promoted. Nor is it because they are filling their ground every week. By that logic they should finish the job with an 8000 capacity and have done with it. I know nothing about Plymouth, but I suspect that similar applies. In any case, both clubs are redeveloping their existing grounds. They are not building from scratch. If there was any intention for Latics to ever again attract more than 12000 fans, the proposed stadium would be designed to accomodate more than 12000 fans. It isn't, and that's because the club now seeks to make itself sustainable in the lower divisions, with a ground holding less than the numbers the club was still, on occasion, attractinbg to BP pre-Lookers' demolition. The intention is to be the new Rochdale or Bury. Both Spotland and Gigg Lane hold over 10000 despite them never averaging anything like it. Using the Nodding Dogs' logic they should probably reduce theirs to 5-6000. Edited September 24, 2009 by Corporal_Jones Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 (edited) No agenda to stop the move then? No agenda to create a swell of opinion against it? Because surely some of those that are against the proposal would like to do so? Surely some would; they have no clearly defined agenda.* I, however, sadly see no hope. *In fact, they have no agenda at all. Some people need to look up the meaning of the word agenda. Edited September 24, 2009 by Corporal_Jones Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_ragg1984 Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 (edited) Try to keep up. Several posters in the thread have already explained that, just as a certain number of seats have to be kept free for all-ticket games at BP (and all other grounds), due to police and other safety restrictions, so, too, will this be the case at Failsworth. What will this reduce the capacity to? 11000-odd? 10000? Who knows? What we do know is that it is seriously small-time. Think its about 500-ish seats. So in out lavish, more than enough, 12000 seater stadium, we will not get crowds of bigger than 11500. Wow. Edited September 24, 2009 by dave_ragg1984 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 Meanwhile, according to the Evening News, a mile and a half away from the proposed site at Failsworth, the richest club in the world announces a plan to redevelop Eastlands. http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/spo...ge_at_eastlands Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 Meanwhile, according to the Evening News, a mile and a half away from the proposed site at Failsworth, the richest club in the world announces a plan to redevelop Eastlands. http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/spo...ge_at_eastlands I hadn't realised they'd installed a wormhole at the new transport interchange on Oldham Road... It's at least two and a half miles as the crow flies, over three and a half by road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NIKI1234 Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 (edited) Try to keep up. Several posters in the thread have already explained that, just as a certain number of seats have to be kept free for all-ticket games at BP (and all other grounds), due to police and other safety restrictions, so, too, will this be the case at Failsworth. What will this reduce the capacity to? 11000-odd? 10000? Who knows? What we do know is that it is seriously small-time. I have kept up but you just knoocking of nearly 20% of a capacity to suit your argument is laughable... You can only sell 95% of tickets for all ticket games, FA rules state this that equals 600 seats.... All other pay on the day games we can fill it up to the very last seat unless we are sharing a stand with away fans then some are taken away as segregation... However in building a new ground with four stands it is very unlikely that we will be sharing any stand with away fans Edited September 24, 2009 by NIKI1234 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 I hadn't realised they'd installed a wormhole at the new transport interchange on Oldham Road... It's at least two and a half miles as the crow flies, over three and a half by road. Wow, a mile. That'll make all the difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 Wow, a mile. That'll make all the difference. It makes feck all difference. Just thought I'd correct a little inaccuracy that I'm sure was unintentional and not at all done to make things look even worse than they are. Besides, he can build an entire new Abu Dhabi there for all I care. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 I have kept up but you just knoocking of nearly 20% of a capacity to suit your argument is laughable... You can only sell 95% of tickets for all ticket games, FA rules state this that equals 600 seats.... All other pay on the day games we can fill it up to the very last seat unless we are sharing a stand with away fans then some are taken away as segregation... However in building a new ground with four stands it is very unlikely that we will be sharing any stand with away fans Have it your way. It's still a food few less than we got in BP on numerous occasions even during the past fifteen dire years. That should tell you something. If it doesn't, well, that's your prerogative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 It makes feck all difference. Just thought I'd correct a little inaccuracy that I'm sure was unintentional and not at all done to make things look even worse than they are. Besides, he can build an entire new Abu Dhabi there for all I care. Yes, as I said, adding a mile on eases our worries considerably. Walking from Broadway to Hulme Hall Lane doesn't feel like two-and-a-half miles to me, but I'm prepared to believe your built-in radar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 Besides, he can build an entire new Abu Dhabi there for all I care. Can you see whatever facilities we get at Broadway competing with what the Arab money can bring? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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