MaskedOwl Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 your always moaning Pete ive got a lot to moan about Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razza699 Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 ive got a lot to moan about as you have such a bad life Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 We did it once with Joe Royle and no money and the dream should be that we could do it again, however, if we go to Failsworth and drift along as we are now without showing much ambition to get up a league I fear alot of supporters including myself will drift away! Which is why the Failsworth project seems, to the minds of some, unlikely to see the club progress. A 12000 limit on capacity-less, we must remember, than we were still managing to attract on occasion to BP pre-Looker's demolition-suggests that there is no plan to ever play in again in a division where there are a fair number of big clubs, let alone challenge in it. If we could get 13000-plus against QPR and Blackpool in the play-offs for this division, how come we're expecting less than 12000 in the division above? It doesn't add up. The most the club seems to be looking at is a brief flirtation with the Championship. A Colchester-type ground for a Colchester-type existence. But I fear it's less than that. People should forget the idea of using what we did under Joe as a guide to what can happen now. It was a different era, less dependent on big money. And we were in the divsion above. Even if it were still possible to get the kind of players we had then on a shoestring budget, they wouldn't come to a bottom half third division club. Too much ambition, for a start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longtimeblue Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 Wigan's season ticket prices started at £250 this season.... not sure what the deal was for that but it makes our prices look a little bit out of sync. I was talking to a Blackburn fan at that Oasis heaton park, they got their books for £199 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghostofcecere Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 TV money probably provides them with more income than gate receipts. The problem a club like Oldham Athletic has is that the fans want to see better players, but the gate receipts alone can't pay for that and wider income from the football "community" was long ago pinched by the Premiership. And I really don't think a few five-a-side pitches in Failsworth will buy two Championship standard centre backs who can strengthen the defence while a prolific striker scores the goals that take us up a league. EDIT: just read that back ... Jones has got to me! I'm sure it does, but they will also have much bigger overheads. I bet Wigan's lowest paid 1st team regular is on much more than our highest paid player amongst other things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 I'm sure it does, but they will also have much bigger overheads. I bet Wigan's lowest paid 1st team regular is on much more than our highest paid player amongst other things. Bloody hell and then some! To be frank.. When you look at teams like Aresnal and Chelsea what we charge isnt all that bad... Until you compare us to teams like Blackburn, City and Wigan and then you realise that we are truly in a mess... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NIKI1234 Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 Which is why the Failsworth project seems, to the minds of some, unlikely to see the club progress. A 12000 limit on capacity-less, we must remember, than we were still managing to attract on occasion to BP pre-Looker's demolition-suggests that there is no plan to ever play in again in a division where there are a fair number of big clubs, let alone challenge in it. If we could get 13000-plus against QPR and Blackpool in the play-offs for this division, how come we're expecting less than 12000 in the division above? It doesn't add up. The most the club seems to be looking at is a brief flirtation with the Championship. A Colchester-type ground for a Colchester-type existence. But I fear it's less than that. People should forget the idea of using what we did under Joe as a guide to what can happen now. It was a different era, less dependent on big money. And we were in the divsion above. Even if it were still possible to get the kind of players we had then on a shoestring budget, they wouldn't come to a bottom half third division club. Too much ambition, for a start. Crowds in the play offs: 12152 against QPR 12154 against Blackpool Biggest games in recent history and and even with our new 12k stadium only 154 fans would have been locked out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F.O.B. Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 Crowds in the play offs: 12152 against QPR 12154 against Blackpool Biggest games in recent history and and even with our new 12k stadium only 154 fans would have been locked out 154 Away fans I would hope. Incidentally, What's the Lashers current capacity? And what will it be after the end stand being built? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 Crowds in the play offs: 12152 against QPR 12154 against Blackpool Biggest games in recent history and and even with our new 12k stadium only 154 fans would have been locked out Like he said though... If that is the top at this level... why plan for that when are apparent aim is the league above... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc1955 Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 154 Away fans I would hope. Incidentally, What's the Lashers current capacity? And what will it be after the end stand being built? I think at the moments it's a little over 9000 and around 13000 when the new end is completed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 (edited) 154 Away fans I would hope. Incidentally, What's the Lashers current capacity? And what will it be after the end stand being built? 9,650... Dont know what it will be when finished... would imagine around 15... The have plans to increase the size of some of the current stands I understand...but dont quote me on that... Edited September 22, 2009 by oafc0000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scapegoat Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 I was talking to a Blackburn fan at that Oasis heaton park, they got their books for £199 Even accounting for the fact that Premier League Season Tickets get you 4 less games a season, figures such as this and those quoted at Wigan make comparisons with lower league clubs very difficult. Blackburn = £10.50 per game on a ST Wigan = £13.15 per game on a ST That is still better than I pay per game in the Chaddy. With the sponsorship and TV money that Premier League clubs have access too, then its likely that the gate income is less significant than it is to League One sides. Perhaps these 2 are experimenting with the notion often discussed on here i.e. Charge £5-10 a head less to get in, and make it back on carparks / pies / shirts etc. The pay on the day price for Leeds v Stockport was apparently £31 according to a Leeds fan at work. So we are not alone in the 'rip-off' addmission game. If the new stadium goes ahead, I hope we see a boost in attendances like some clubs have seen and we can tie that with a decent side on the pitch so they stay and see what its like. I do not know the detail of the stadium plans as yet, but I hope that it is one that could be extended at a reasonable cost in the future. First season in the new stadium sees intial crowds of around 8000-9000 maintained and building up to a few sell outs at the end as we get promoted. People outside the ground all night to get a season ticket for the first season in the second tier for 16 years, a full-house all season, and with survival confidently achieved, an extension to take us to 16,000 capacity is announced and starts in May. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F.O.B. Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 I think at the moments it's a little over 9000 and around 13000 when the new end is completed. Not took them long to develop then has it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_ragg1984 Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 Crowds in the play offs: 12152 against QPR 12154 against Blackpool Biggest games in recent history and and even with our new 12k stadium only 154 fans would have been locked out Thats actually not true. Factor in segregation, and the fact that for some reason you are not allowed to totally fill the ground, there would be a lot less. When it held 13500, there were a couple of cup games (City at home - 13171, Chelsea - 12770) which were sold out, but still a fair few less than 13500 in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 (edited) Crowds in the play offs: 12152 against QPR 12154 against Blackpool Biggest games in recent history and and even with our new 12k stadium only 154 fans would have been locked out Should we be aiming for no more than this in the play-offs in the division above? Or this division for that matter? In any case, there were well over 13000 in the ground for the games against City and Huddersfield in the cup. I don't understand this mentality that says we should never aim toplay in front of as many fans as possible at home. Last time we were a serious force in the division above this one we managed 18-19000 for important games. In the seventies we were still getting over 20000 for big cup games. Are those days gone forever? Because if they are, so am I, and a lot of other people. Edited September 22, 2009 by Corporal_Jones Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 154 Away fans I would hope. Incidentally, What's the Lashers current capacity? And what will it be after the end stand being built? Blackpool's capacity is entirely irrelevant. Let Blackpool have whatever ambitions they wish. It's nothing to do with us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 I do not know the detail of the stadium plans as yet, but I hope that it is one that could be extended at a reasonable cost in the future. Forget extension. 'There will be room for extension,' is probably the single most cynical and disingenuous comment ever uttered by anybody connected to the club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NIKI1234 Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 Thats actually not true. Factor in segregation, and the fact that for some reason you are not allowed to totally fill the ground, there would be a lot less. When it held 13500, there were a couple of cup games (City at home - 13171, Chelsea - 12770) which were sold out, but still a fair few less than 13500 in. These are the crowds given by the official site for the games against QPR and Blackpool when the capacity was 13500.... That leaves around 1400 spare seats, these were not down to segregation? The QPR game there was no segregation apart from the Big Moat, we didnt even have the JD sports carpets down the seats and against Blackpool they had the whole stand so again no seats were cut off for segregation. We simply didnt sell out against these teams... QPR Fans were moaning for days after our game as we didnt give them the small bit of the RRE and then we didnt sell out the seats in there.. Blackpool was not a sell out either. I understand that for some reason you are not allowed to sell the whole capacity (5%of capacity = 675 seats at the time) on all ticket games but the fact is the crowds were what they where because we didnt sell our own tickets. Infact Blackpool was worse than the QPR game as they sold out the whole RRE for us leaving only 9000 home seats to sell. We only actually sold around 7600 home tickets Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 These are the crowds given by the official site for the games against QPR and Blackpool when the capacity was 13500.... That leaves around 1400 spare seats, these were not down to segregation? The QPR game there was no segregation apart from the Big Moat, we didnt even have the JD sports carpets down the seats and against Blackpool they had the whole stand so again no seats were cut off for segregation. We simply didnt sell out against these teams... QPR Fans were moaning for days after our game as we didnt give them the small bit of the RRE and then we didnt sell out the seats in there.. Blackpool was not a sell out either. I understand that for some reason you are not allowed to sell the whole capacity (5%of capacity = 675 seats at the time) on all ticket games but the fact is the crowds were what they where because we didnt sell our own tickets. Infact Blackpool was worse than the QPR game as they sold out the whole RRE for us leaving only 9000 home seats to sell. We only actually sold around 7600 home tickets Even if what you're saying were true, why is it a reason to never aim to have more than 12000 in the ground again? And if segregation and police limits affected BP, what will be the effect on a 12000 capacity? It seems we'll be lucky to see more than 10,000-odd again. It's when you consider factors like this that you realise where the ambitions of the club now lie. Lack of ambition will be the club's epitaph. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NIKI1234 Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 Like he said though... If that is the top at this level... why plan for that when are apparent aim is the league above... We didnt even sell the home allocations in either game. If you take out the amount we give away fans the Blackpool game we sold 7600 and slightly more against QPR... Take into account that the new away end in our new ground will be no where near as big as 4500 say 3000 tops thats will still leave 9000 tickets to sell.. Couldnt manage 9K in our 2 biggest games since leaving the Premiership Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 We didnt even sell the home allocations in either game. If you take out the amount we give away fans the Blackpool game we sold 7600 and slightly more against QPR... Take into account that the new away end in our new ground will be no where near as big as 4500 say 3000 tops thats will still leave 9000 tickets to sell.. Couldnt manage 9K in our 2 biggest games since leaving the Premiership Why does that mean that we shouldn't be aiming to sell as many tickest as possible, though? When you consider we managed to get a capacity 19000 crowd last time we did well in the division above, why should we never aim to do it again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NIKI1234 Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 (edited) Even if what you're saying were true, why is it a reason to never aim to have more than 12000 in the ground again? And if segregation and police limits affected BP, what will be the effect on a 12000 capacity? It seems we'll be lucky to see more than 10,000-odd again. It's when you consider factors like this that you realise where the ambitions of the club now lie. Lack of ambition will be the club's epitaph. Personally i think 12K is big enough, I would be much happier if they built 15-20K and we could fill it but we cant..... Why should TTA build a ground bigger when they have never seen more than 9K home fans in any game in the 5 years they have been at the club..... In fact we have never had more than 9K home fans since leaving the Premiership inside BP and many times in the premiership we struggled to even break 12K crowds. Look at our attendence history and bar 1991-1994 and before that 1975 we have never managed to even average higher than the proposed capacity. Why unless we get to the Prem (when if we do we would have the money and option to look at expanding) would 12K not be sufficiant Attendence history Edited September 22, 2009 by NIKI1234 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 Personally i think 12K is big enough, I would be much happier if they built 15-20K and we could fill it but we cant..... Why should TTA build a ground bigger when they have never seen more than 9K home fans in any game in the 5 years they have been at the club..... In fact we have never had more than 9K home fans since leaving the Premiership inside BP and many times in the premiership we struggled to even break 12K crowds. Look at our attendence history and bar 199-1994 and before that 1975 we have never managed to even average higher than the proposed capacity. Why unless we get to the Prem (when if we do we would have the money and option to look at expanding) would 12K not be sufficiant Attendence history If we have never had over 12000 home fans since leaving the PL, it is because the club has never put together a side capable of attracting more than that. After all, we regularly used to get more than 12000 in this division under Jimmy Frizzell. Sometimes 16-18000. There are other factors too, not least of which was the abject surrender as soon as we dropped out of the PL, which went a long way towards demoralising a part of the fanbase and the wider town-and this coming at a time when top class football was never off the telly and admission charges throughout the game soaring. The gate a club averages has nothing to do with ground capacity. Most clubs have capacities far in excess of what they average, and always have-at all levels of the Football League. Ground capcity is about ambition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 Look at our attendence history and bar 1991-1994 and before that 1975 we have never managed to even average higher than the proposed capacity. Why unless we get to the Prem (when if we do we would have the money and option to look at expanding) would 12K not be sufficiant Using the same logic, Wigan, say, should have built a stadium holding about 7000. Reading should have built one with an 11000 capacity. Why do so many lower division clubs still build grounds that hold far more than the gates they've averaged over the past few decades, or have any realistic hope of avergaing any time soon? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NIKI1234 Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 If we have never had over 12000 home fans since leaving the PL, it is because the club has never put together a side capable of attracting more than that. After all, we regularly used to get more than 12000 in this division under Jimmy Frizzell. Sometimes 16-18000. There are other factors too, not least of which was the abject surrender as soon as we dropped out of the PL, which went a long way towards demoralising a part of the fanbase and the wider town-and this coming at a time when top class football was never off the telly and admission charges throughout the game soaring. The gate a club averages has nothing to do with ground capacity. Most clubs have capacities far in excess of what they average, and always have-at all levels of the Football League. Ground capcity is about ambition. With an unlimited capacity and a successful table topping team what sort of crowds would you expect us to be able to acheive at this level and championship level? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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