F.O.B. Posted November 14, 2009 Share Posted November 14, 2009 What you say is true. There are obviously still plenty of clever students and good universities, but the target of 50% is madness. Not only is it a money making racket for a variety of enterprises, as well as academia, it's what's known as social parking: keeping as many youngsters away from the jobs market as possible for three years because adequate jobs aren't there for them. It's no coincidence that the return of mass unemployment in the 1980s coincided with the expansion of higher education. The corresponding expansion of local government is in part due to the need to soak up an excess of university graduates. Having been told that their part of an educated elite, the McJob and the call centre just won't meet the expectations of many of them. This is a society in more trouble than it realises. Now here is a point I do agree with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singe Posted November 14, 2009 Share Posted November 14, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (oafc0000 @ Nov 12 2009, 21:42 PM) I think my fear is we fall into the trap of having a 12,000 stadium.. We get promoted and we hit 12,000 every week straight away... Due to the cost of having to expand the sqaud there is not enough left to expand. Trapping us... I suppose we would seek a loan in that instance..if that was possible.... I know it was supposition, but one thing is fact, if we get promoted there is no way we will get 12,000 every week. We just about did that in the Pinch Me season. Edited November 14, 2009 by singe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted November 14, 2009 Share Posted November 14, 2009 QUOTE (oafc0000 @ Nov 12 2009, 21:42 PM) I think my fear is we fall into the trap of having a 12,000 stadium.. We get promoted and we hit 12,000 every week straight away... Due to the cost of having to expand the sqaud there is not enough left to expand. Trapping us... I suppose we would seek a loan in that instance..if that was possible.... I know it was supposition, but one thing is fact, if we get promoted there is no way we will get 12,000 every week. We just about did that in the Pinch Me season. The so-called pinch me season's average was over 13000, but for the important games we got considerably more. The reason why a limit of 12000 is being set on the new stadium can only be that the club has decided that it isn't up to trying to get days like those back. Sad really, when you consider what similar clubs in similar towns manage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
real Posted November 14, 2009 Share Posted November 14, 2009 (edited) The so-called pinch me season's average was over 13000, but for the important games we got considerably more. The reason why a limit of 12000 is being set on the new stadium can only be that the club has decided that it isn't up to trying to get days like those back. Sad really, when you consider what similar clubs in similar towns manage. It was 9728 actually, not over 13000. It was over 13,000 the season after when we achieved promotion Edited November 14, 2009 by real Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted November 14, 2009 Share Posted November 14, 2009 It was 9728 actually, not over 13000. It was over 13,000 the season after when we achieved promotion Okay. But we did manage considerably more than 12000 for the bigger cup games. The surge in support during both seasons does show, though, how people will all of a sudden start to flock to BP if they think something significant's happening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edhunteruk Posted November 14, 2009 Share Posted November 14, 2009 Okay. But we did manage considerably more than 12000 for the bigger cup games. The surge in support during both seasons does show, though, how people will all of a sudden start to flock to BP if they think something significant's happening. so how do we make something sgnificant happen then corp....how do we get back to those halcyon days that we all....well most of us fondly remember Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singe Posted November 14, 2009 Share Posted November 14, 2009 Okay. But we did manage considerably more than 12000 for the bigger cup games. The surge in support during both seasons does show, though, how people will all of a sudden start to flock to BP if they think something significant's happening. But how many games? The economics of it do not make sense. Lets be generous and say half the games could be really big gates. that's 10 games at £20 less VAT= £17 x 4,000 x10= £680,000 per season. That's before all those additional operation costs. But that surge did not happen till we were realistically in with a shout of acheiving promotion. So in one sense I agree, but it would be with a realistic chance. And realsitically it is not likely to be for a number of years. Even in the first play off season it was also no where near 12k. You could therefore argue that your 16k stadium limits our ambtion to the Champioship survival...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 (edited) But how many games? The economics of it do not make sense. Lets be generous and say half the games could be really big gates. that's 10 games at £20 less VAT= £17 x 4,000 x10= £680,000 per season. That's before all those additional operation costs. But that surge did not happen till we were realistically in with a shout of acheiving promotion. So in one sense I agree, but it would be with a realistic chance. And realsitically it is not likely to be for a number of years. Even in the first play off season it was also no where near 12k. You could therefore argue that your 16k stadium limits our ambtion to the Champioship survival...... Yet again... For nearly all clubs ground capacity is not about how often you fill your stadium at the time the stadum is in the planning stages, or in the crisis-ridden recent past. It is about where you hope to be eventually. If there were plans to establish the club in the Championship, eventually challenging for the top six, then we should certainly be anticipating attendances larger than we've managed even while in this division. Can anybody really claim that 12000 (in reality considerably less due to the rule that states that several hundred seats must be left free) would be enough for a game against, say, Sheffield United, with we and they hovering around the play-off places close to the season's crunch period? Or against Leeds? Sheffield Wednesday? Huddersfield? Burnley, Bolton? Nottingham Forest? Etc Edited November 15, 2009 by Corporal_Jones Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diego_Sideburns Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 Okay. But we did manage considerably more than 12000 for the bigger cup games. Maybe TTA think that if we get a big cup game, when 12,000 seats are likely to be insufficient, they'll charge more, thereby producing the same income as 14,000 seats, without the capital outlay. The stayaways must have a nice nestegg saved by now to afford the higher admission prices to see quality opposition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghostofcecere Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 so how do we make something sgnificant happen then corp....how do we get back to those halcyon days that we all....well most of us fondly remember that's the bit that is always missing from his posts...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny punkster Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 Maybe TTA think that if we get a big cup game, when 12,000 seats are likely to be insufficient, they'll charge more, thereby producing the same income as 14,000 seats, without the capital outlay. The stayaways must have a nice nestegg saved by now to afford the higher admission prices to see quality opposition. do you not think the stayaways were never real fans in the first place,therefore not "stayaways"..more glory hunters. therefore the answer lies in the above sentence. bring attractive winning football back and the "stayaways" will come back. they just want entertainment. we are just more thick skinned...or just plain thick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wardlelatic Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 from doing a little reading around and speaking to some construction companies at work it seems that for every 1000 seats you build into a stand or stidium you add £1 million to the costings 12,000 seats at the moment is more than enough for the club but has long as expansion plans are put into the design and build of any new stadium this should cater for any increased in attendances IMO the cost of the matchday experience would come down from £20 as the club would be making more matchday revenue with the increase of facilitations on site. This secondary spend would compensate the cost of admittance as the general speand of each fan would be increased just by the better facilities alone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 Looking back to 1989/90 is a perfect example of the fickleness and bandwagon nature of support. Our first home game of the so called pinch me season was against Watford. Can't find the stats online, but if I remember rightly the attendance was somewhere in the region of 4600. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diego_Sideburns Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 Looking back to 1989/90 is a perfect example of the fickleness and bandwagon nature of support. Our first home game of the so called pinch me season was against Watford. Can't find the stats online, but if I remember rightly the attendance was somewhere in the region of 4600. 6,230. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diego_Sideburns Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 do you not think the stayaways were never real fans in the first place,therefore not "stayaways"..more glory hunters. They were certainly 'real fans' but they've been there, done that and got the shirt, so they can't be arsed any more in the :censored:y Third Division. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 6,230. Cheers Diego. That's more than I thought. Does your Oracle have record of a 4000-odd attendance early that season? Maybe a night game? Still - even at 6230, that's over 10,000 bandwagon jumpers by the end of that season. (And another 25k more if you count Wembley! ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 They were certainly 'real fans' but they've been there, done that and got the shirt, so they can't be arsed any more in the :censored:y Third Division. Sometimes it's simpler still than that. Life moves on, priorities change, and suddenly Latics falls down the order of things to do on a Saturday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 that's the bit that is always missing from his posts...... That's because we don't get back there. I can't believe that you haven't noticed me explain this. We are being downscaled due to falling too far behind over the last fifteen years. TTA, like CM, have failed to revive the club and are now, as the small size of the projected stadium shows, making the downscaling 'oFficial.' We are to be another Bury or Rochdale. Or Stockport. And, in the long-term, it will not save professional football in Oldham because, as we are already seeing, there is very little interest among the popultaion of the town for routine lower division football. It's a different era than when the club had decade after decade in the lower divisions previously, and there are better things to spend your money on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeP Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 "I was reassured that the size of the stadium would be one story and would not be overpowering everything on the front of the road" Yeah, not happy about this. Have always been impressed by Millwall's ground for view and atmosphere. Millwall also try and make fans "stay for the day" by opening the bar at midday and after the match to try and get fans spending at the club - might be worth making the ground as accomodating as possible so fans do this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 from doing a little reading around and speaking to some construction companies at work it seems that for every 1000 seats you build into a stand or stidium you add £1 million to the costings 12,000 seats at the moment is more than enough for the club but has long as expansion plans are put into the design and build of any new stadium this should cater for any increased in attendances IMO the cost of the matchday experience would come down from £20 as the club would be making more matchday revenue with the increase of facilitations on site. This secondary spend would compensate the cost of admittance as the general speand of each fan would be increased just by the better facilities alone There will never be any expansion, whether it's 'put into the plans' or not, as clubs kicking around the third and fourth division do not need expanded stadiums. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senor_Coconut Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 There will never be any expansion, whether it's 'put into the plans' or not, as clubs kicking around the third and fourth division do not need expanded stadiums. Can you expand a little on your comments there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 Yeah, not happy about this. Have always been impressed by Millwall's ground for view and atmosphere. Millwall also try and make fans "stay for the day" by opening the bar at midday and after the match to try and get fans spending at the club - might be worth making the ground as accomodating as possible so fans do this. I fear like politicians the board they will offer to listen sympathetically - but then go ahead with their original plans anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 They were certainly 'real fans' but they've been there, done that and got the shirt, so they can't be arsed any more in the :censored:y Third Division. Those of us who still attend BP are not morally superior to those who've called it a day. Simply, the club has done too little to keep them or win them back, and too little to attract the wider public of Oldham. There are hardly any clubs in the country that don't lose fans when the club stagnates or declines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 Can you expand a little on your comments there? No. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 Looking back to 1989/90 is a perfect example of the fickleness and bandwagon nature of support. Our first home game of the so called pinch me season was against Watford. Can't find the stats online, but if I remember rightly the attendance was somewhere in the region of 4600. there's the answer: the club has to create a bandwagon. A near- fourth division squad just won't do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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