Fans love a good scapegoat...

[Bring Back Ronnie Moore]

Agree Furmans a bad'un...but spent what on him exactly? Was a free signing.

 

Furman wasn't free, we had to pay Rangers compensation.

 

Some people on here said 50k, others have said 120k.

 

50-80k sounds more reasonable.

Edited January 21, 2010 by Bring Back Ronnie Moore

[Senor_Coconut]

Agree with BB80 although I think we would still be in this position with Shez.

[BP1960]

I have seen part timers play better football and show more desire to win than the current Latics outfit, last night's match should have been like a cup tie to the players, raring to go after a long break, instead it all looked like too much trouble.

 

You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all of the people all of the time (Abraham Lincoln).

 

[Stitch_KTF]

You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all of the people all of the time (Abraham Lincoln).

 

Wasn't that Robert Marley?

[KUNGFOO]

Chris Moore's big problem was firstly he was naieve he though it only cost a few million to get to the premiership once he realised how much it was going to cost him about £30million then and probably about £50million now he got out. The second problem was that he lied telling us repeatedly that he wasn't going to walk away from the club and then hanging us all out to dry we really don't want someone like that running our club. Remember him leading the applause on the lap of honour at the last home game of the play off season. Quite happy to have his ego massaged wasn't he.

 

 

 

Mr Moore is vacating his dual role as chairman and a director of the club and becomes Honorary President saying he wants to concentrate on improving the share price of his Oxfordshire IT company, Torex, which has been hit by the stock market crash.

 

It is estimated that Moore has invested over £3 million in the club since purchasing the majority shareholding in 2001 for a nominal fee.

 

Speaking to the club website, Moore denied he was paving the way to leave the club, adding that he had no intentions of giving up his majority shareholding.

 

He said: "I own 95 per cent of the club now and I have put in a massive commitment to the club.

 

"We are still in a very precarious financial position and I can't keep on funding it for ever.

 

"As anyone who has seen the Torex share price go down it has put immense pressure on me and it has put me in a position where I just can't keep on writing cheques out.

 

"The financing of the club is secured, so no one will have to worry about that in the immediate term."

 

Latics' financial losses - which peaked at £50,000 a week in October - have been funded by Moore's reduced personal fortune. His present stake in Torex, which is 10.12 per cent, is worth about £19.5 million at the current share price.

 

 

 

[singe]

Agree with BB80 although I think we would still be in this position with Shez.

I agree with BB adn CS we would be in the same postion.

A because it would have been financial suicide to sign many of them back on from their pre-recession days and/or They were really crap from Jan onwards c) they were friggin ancient and past it. Vis a vis Windass, Crossley, Maher, Byfield, Ormerod, Kalala, Budtz, Allott, Liddell, Hughes -granted he would be better than what we have now, but would strugle this season and is getting on.

You could argue we are in this postion because of Shez signining lots of short term players.

 

[otid]

There are some great points on all sides of the debate raised in this topic. One thing missing from the mix is the attitude of the players. Two very average and extremely rusty sides last night put on a very poor show. I think i'd be happier as a Tranny fan in terms of the effort put in. They wanted it to a man (despite being as inept as we were) and will no doubt pull away from the bottom with the kind of team spirit shown. We had nothing in terms of spirit or cameraderie. Players hiding, suicide balls given rather than taking responsibility and absolutely no-one busting a gut. The malaise is widespread at the club and is clearly affecting all facets from players to support. Not a good recipe.

[Butter]

Predicted in the summer what would happen under Penney. Some very vocal people on here for his head. Answer me the following then:

 

How on earth do you expect us as a club to go from targeting players and coming up against the likes of ambitious clubs like Doncaster and Blackpool etc. as we did over the years, to this now...asking the new manager to go bargain hunting, taking players from reserve sides in this league or from Lge 2. Our competitor was Donny in the transfer market, now it is 'Dale!!! We can't even entice that young lad here (can't think of his name) who has decided to try his luck at Crewe!!!

 

Silk purse from a sows ear...blood from a stone...ain't going to happen. Sing and shout all you like about Penney...I'll judge him once he's given some money to bring in the likes of Heffernan and one or two others with calibre and not some risky gambles which money currently dictates. Either TTA back their man in the next 10 days or...well, I'll be wondering if my cynical League 2 Championship Winners in our 1st season in Failsworth "dream" is the actual plan in motion now!!! I want to be proven wrong!!!

 

Is signing 10 players not enough though? I bet some managers in our league wish they could have done that. What are we paying this lot with then brass buttons?

 

With our apparent lack of money you'd expect us to make sure the players we sign are the right ones for the club. 10 players who wouldnt rip up trees in League 2 or 3 players who have that bit of quality to create something/change a game, I know which i'd rather have. What money we have had he has wasted on :censored:e.

[Senor_Coconut]

Is signing 10 players not enough though? I bet some managers in our league wish they could have done that. What are we paying this lot with then brass buttons?

 

With our apparent lack of money you'd expect us to make sure the players we sign are the right ones for the club. 10 players who wouldnt rip up trees in League 2 or 3 players who have that bit of quality to create something/change a game, I know which i'd rather have. What money we have had he has wasted on :censored:e.

 

 

 

I think you'll find most clubs in our league did that. Thats the way modern football is in the lower leagues, lots' of players on one or two year contracts.

[Butter]

I think you'll find most clubs in our league did that. Thats the way modern football is in the lower leagues, lots' of players on one or two year contracts.

 

Hmm, of the teams i've seen I can still recognise the majority of players. The only team that has made wholesale changes were Tranmere the only 2 I recognised were Goodison and Moore upfront.

 

Fair point though. Its probably why I'm losing interest.

[edhunteruk]

Agree with BB80 although I think we would still be in this position with Shez.

 

think thats pretty much how i see it.

 

but like has been said time and time again,the players show no ambition to better themself or the club...they get paid and thats it...think only greegan stephens and abbott have done anything so far the rest just arent interested.....

 

and thats why people get fed up,paying out hard earned cash for them to not even fight.

[boundaryblue80]

He has a bigger budget than Sheridan had.

 

You keep telling yourself that...even the owners have said differently! And they're alluding to last seasons, which in Shez's 3rd season, was correctly reduced as he should have his squad in place.

 

[tangerinedreams]

You keep telling yourself that...even the owners have said differently! And they're alluding to last seasons, which in Shez's 3rd season, was correctly reduced as he should have his squad in place.

 

 

 

 

 

Still shouldn't have been sacked.

[steveoafc]

think thats pretty much how i see it.

 

but like has been said time and time again,the players show no ambition to better themself or the club...they get paid and thats it...think only greegan stephens and abbott have done anything so far the rest just arent interested.....

 

and thats why people get fed up,paying out hard earned cash for them to not even fight.

100% commitment should be a minimum requirement, i'm not expecting them all to be world beaters but there's no excuse for lack of effort or desire.

[boundaryblue80]

Is signing 10 players not enough though? I bet some managers in our league wish they could have done that. What are we paying this lot with then brass buttons?

 

With our apparent lack of money you'd expect us to make sure the players we sign are the right ones for the club. 10 players who wouldnt rip up trees in League 2 or 3 players who have that bit of quality to create something/change a game, I know which i'd rather have. What money we have had he has wasted on :censored:e.

First of all, at times this season, we've had 10 players out injured at the same time and more regularly 7 or 8. Barely even seen the likes of Holdsworth, Worthington and Purdie who would've been 1st teamers...and bit-part appearances aren't much to go from....you judge on a run of a couple of games.

 

2nd of all...they're :censored:e coz we've been fishing in reserve teams at this level or looking below. That's the wage we've been looking at...competing vs Dale for them, instead of Donny as it used to be....not going higher up the tables offering a bit more for players of a decent standard to this level. We've got what we've paid for.

 

As for the person elsewhere saying we paid for Furman, I took it that his contract was up with Rangers and that they would've offered him another but he wanted to play 1st team football. If we paid something for him, that one missed me! Also, he came very highly rated...I thought we had a good one...I think most did at first (infact I remember a few over-hyping him early doors.)

Edited January 22, 2010 by boundaryblue80

[tangerinedreams]

First of all, at times this season, we've had 10 players out injured at the same time and more regularly 7 or 8. Barely even seen the likes of Holdsworth, Worthington and Purdie who would've been 1st teamers...and bit-part appearances aren't much to go from....you judge on a run of a couple of games.

 

2nd of all...they're :censored:e coz we've been fishing in reserve teams at this level or looking below. That's the wage we've been looking at...competing vs Dale for them, instead of Donny as it used to be....not going higher up the tables offering a bit more for players of a decent standard to this level. We've got what we've paid for.

 

As for the person elsewhere saying we paid for Furman, I took it that his contract was up with Rangers and that they would've offered him another but he wanted to play 1st team football. If we paid something for him, that one missed me! Also, he came very highly rated...I thought we had a good one...I think most did at first (infact I remember a few over-hyping him early doors.)

 

 

 

 

He was earmarked to takeover Ferguson when his legs had gone but either never made it or Ferguson lasted longer than expected.......still, to take a Rangers reject on isn't exactly great ambition is it.

[boundaryblue80]

He was earmarked to takeover Ferguson when his legs had gone but either never made it or Ferguson lasted longer than expected.......still, to take a Rangers reject on isn't exactly great ambition is it.

You're right...much rather he'd have been a Celtic reject! ;-)

 

Being serious though, I thought they wanted to offer him a contract but he wanted 1st team football (South Africa-World Cup year and all that) so as they couldn't offer him that it was agreed they'd part company. Not sure if that is "failed" against his name or just deciding on a different career route.

 

Also...it depends on what stature you see Rangers at in comparison to English football. Personally, I think they'd swim about mid-table in the Championship (as Celtic would before Slurms or whoever else starts ;-) and so, is taking a young promising lad from that level that's going cheap/free unambitious? Kilkenny anyone? I don't think it was...I think it was quite ambitious and a gamble...sadly, Furman has let himself down badly and will be seeing the World Cup on TV this summer!

[steveoafc]

You're right...much rather he'd have been a Celtic reject! ;-)

 

Being serious though, I thought they wanted to offer him a contract but he wanted 1st team football (South Africa-World Cup year and all that) so as they couldn't offer him that it was agreed they'd part company. Not sure if that is "failed" against his name or just deciding on a different career route.

 

Also...it depends on what stature you see Rangers at in comparison to English football. Personally, I think they'd swim about mid-table in the Championship (as Celtic would before Slurms or whoever else starts ;-) and so, is taking a young promising lad from that level that's going cheap/free unambitious? Kilkenny anyone? I don't think it was...I think it was quite ambitious and a gamble...sadly, Furman has let himself down badly and will be seeing the World Cup on TV this summer!

Furman has been a major disappointment so far, whether that be playing out of position or he isn't the player he was hyped to be as yet to be seen.

[leeslover]

You're right...much rather he'd have been a Celtic reject! ;-)

 

Being serious though, I thought they wanted to offer him a contract but he wanted 1st team football (South Africa-World Cup year and all that) so as they couldn't offer him that it was agreed they'd part company. Not sure if that is "failed" against his name or just deciding on a different career route.

 

Also...it depends on what stature you see Rangers at in comparison to English football. Personally, I think they'd swim about mid-table in the Championship (as Celtic would before Slurms or whoever else starts ;-) and so, is taking a young promising lad from that level that's going cheap/free unambitious? Kilkenny anyone? I don't think it was...I think it was quite ambitious and a gamble...sadly, Furman has let himself down badly and will be seeing the World Cup on TV this summer!

Was it a bit like us making out that Barca were after COG when we knew Dale wanted him? He made 1 substitute appearance for the cloven-hooved so-called ,"League Champions," and was sent out to the English basement, it's not really shouting of a player they fancied. Plenty of chances they could have given him a game against some of the :censored:e in the SPL if they thought he was worth a go. To me he has ability but he needs to stand out as a leader at the moment, young Stephens seems to want the ball more than his more senior partner at the moment

 

[oafcprozac]

Have you seen the figures for the ritchie era? Becasue I did in the deloitte football figures for 2000-01 Ritchies final season the club wage bill was over £2million. and we made a loss tha year of £900K

 

Come on! You know i'm on about May '98-May '01. (Ritchie's last season was cut short in October 2001) Chris Moore bought the club in May'01 and spent very little of Moore's budget before he was sacked in October 2001, Wadsworth was the one who went loopy with the 'budget!

 

Ritchie in his time here (5 months apart) never had a pot to piss in! And it was strange that Holden, Mini-Shez, Eyre, Armstrong, Eyres and Carss (all Ritchie signings) were such an integral part of Dowie's play-off season - only two cost fees but Ritchie only spent on one of them)

 

His signings with the Moore money were Balmer, Eyre, Mini-Shez and the young winger from Blackburn (Lee Hardy?). Later he paid money for Armstrong and signed Dean Holden on loan and paid £70,000 for Wayne Gill.

 

Before Warnock was sacked in 1998, the club triumphantly announced it had taken on 15 trainees full-time and they would form the nucleus of the squad for the next couple of years and by Christ the club was right. I stick by my original point, Stitch had about 20% of what Penney and Shez had last season and yet we still stayed in the division ('99 apart), very comfortably and ruffled a few feathers along the way. As Wozzer says it was often awful but they played to their abilities and because so many were kids that's where the inconsistency came from. We could be fabulous or we could be dire but it was never for the want of trying and some of the football from let's be honest Conference standard players was sublime! (The winner at home to Cambridge stands out as does a back to front goal v Chesterfield - home and away!)

 

The issue we have now is that fleeting glimpses and two battling performances apart we do not know what this team is capable of because the manager has stifled all attacking threat and virtually guarantees the biggest underachievers in the squad their places every week - come what may! (Smalley and Whitaker)

 

I can handle being :censored:e, I'm a Latics fan! What I can't handle is the pisspoor unimaginative tactics and players who do not put a shift in.

Edited January 22, 2010 by oafcprozac

[oafc0000]

Come on! You know i'm on about May '98-May '01. Chris Moore bought the club in May'01 and spent very little of Moore's budget before he was sacked in October 2001, Wadsworth was the one who went loopy with the 'budget!

 

Ritchie in his time here (5 months apart) never had a pot to piss in! And it was strange that Holden, Mini-Shez, Eyre, Armstrong, Eyres and Carss (all Ritchie signings were such an integral part of Dowie's play-off season - only two cost fees but Ritchie only spent on one of them)

 

His signings with the Moore money were Balmer, Eyre, Mini-Shez and the young winger from Blackburn (Lee Hardy?). Later he paid money for Armstrong and signed Dean Holden on loan and paid £70,000 for Wayne Gill.

 

Before Warnock was sacked in 1998, the club triumphantly announced it had taken on 15 trainees full-time and they would form the nucleus of the squad for the next couple of years and by Christ the club was right. As stick by my original point, Stitch had about 20% of what Penney and Shez had last season and yet we still stayed in the division ('99 apart), very comfortably and ruffled a few feathers along the way. As Wozzer says it was often awful but they played to their abilities and because so many were kids that's where the inconsistency came from. we could be fabulous or we could be dire but it was never for the want of trying.

 

The issue we have now is that fleeting glimpses and two battling performances apart we do not know what this team is capable of because the manager has stifles all attacking threat and virtually guarantees the biggest underachievers in the squad their places every week - come what may! (Smalley and Whitaker)

 

What he said

 

 

[oafcprozac]

Furman has been a major disappointment so far, whether that be playing out of position or he isn't the player he was hyped to be as yet to be seen.

 

I agree Furman has been poor, but much of it imo is down to the manager's approach. In pre-season he looked very much the attacking midfielder so it may be he's gone into his shell, he may be missing the insurance of Worthy alongside him or as I say the manager's tactics are stifling him. Having said that the manager's tactics are not stifling young Dale too much. Perhaps League One is a step too far for Dean who knows? What I do know is that there is a tidy footballer in there who can keep the ball and spot a pass - he just needs to play 30 yards further forward.

 

Jury's out for me but I'm not writing him off yet, a lot of influential people in the game rated him. Rangers were gutted to lose him and one of the best midfielders in the 80s/90s Stuart McCall was gutted to miss out on him permanently. However, Stephens has showed him the way and should keep the shirt, purely for his energy and his set-piece delivery and the fact he attempts to get forward.

Edited January 22, 2010 by oafcprozac

[Steve_R]

You could argue we are in this postion because of Shez signining lots of short term players.

 

I'm on Penney's side but to blame this years inept performances on last years manager is, quite frankly, bollocks.

[Stitch_KTF]

You keep telling yourself that...even the owners have said differently! And they're alluding to last seasons, which in Shez's 3rd season, was correctly reduced as he should have his squad in place.

 

 

Corney dismissed claims that Penney, brought in from Darlington at the end of last season, was working on a smaller budget than his predecessor, John Sheridan. He said: "I can categorically say that, given the money we've spent on players this season, it's higher. There are teams with bigger budgets in the division, but it's certainly not a bottom-four budget."

 

[tangerinedreams]

You're right...much rather he'd have been a Celtic reject! ;-)

 

Being serious though, I thought they wanted to offer him a contract but he wanted 1st team football (South Africa-World Cup year and all that) so as they couldn't offer him that it was agreed they'd part company. Not sure if that is "failed" against his name or just deciding on a different career route.

 

Also...it depends on what stature you see Rangers at in comparison to English football. Personally, I think they'd swim about mid-table in the Championship (as Celtic would before Slurms or whoever else starts ;-) and so, is taking a young promising lad from that level that's going cheap/free unambitious? Kilkenny anyone? I don't think it was...I think it was quite ambitious and a gamble...sadly, Furman has let himself down badly and will be seeing the World Cup on TV this summer!

 

 

 

Does it not speak volumes in itself that he went from Rangers to Bradford on loan, a second division club then we bought him and gave him a 3 year contract that just backs up what a lot of people are saying on here, how much did we give for him out of interest? Or was it an undisclosed fee? Not good enough for Rangers, good in the 2nd division, Bradford looked at it hoping that someone would take the bait and Penney did, bet they are laughing their b******* off now, *****, he would be better off at a div 2 club who are hovvering around the playoffs, bit like Dale have been for the last few years.