LaticsPete Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Hallworth Irwin Barrett Warhurst - INJURED Barlow -INJURED Adams - INJURED Henry - INJURED Milligan - INJURED Holden Ritchie - INURED Bunn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Hallworth Irwin Barrett Warhurst - INJURED Barlow -INJURED Adams - INJURED Henry - INJURED Milligan - INJURED Holden Ritchie - INURED Bunn Who were the reserves in those days Pete ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafcprozac Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 (edited) Hallworth Irwin Barrett Warhurst - INJURED Holden A Barlow -INJURED Blundell Adams - INJURED Palmer Henry - INJURED Donachie Milligan - INJURED Redfearn Holden Ritchie - INURED Marshall Bunn Just to play Devil's advocate, if you're looking at 89/90. If you're going earlier, swap John Kelly for Redfearn and Peter Skipper for Andy Holden. Edited March 19, 2012 by oafcprozac Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
palmer1 Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 (edited) Hallworth Irwin Barrett Warhurst - INJURED Barlow -INJURED Adams - INJURED Henry - INJURED Milligan - INJURED Holden Ritchie - INURED Bunn 4-4-2 - wouldnt have got to Wembley but would beat the 11 that start for us nowadays i would say a respectable position in the old 2nd division and the only weak point in that defence if Holden could have stayed fit was a young inexperienced Blundell, didnt get any game time as i recall 1 or 2 games maybe Bunn and Marshall would score plenty with service from Holden and Redfearn energy with Donachies brains in the middle and the dodger making runs late into the area, if only we had them now! back in the day may have panicked if id looked at that team sheet with alll those injurys but it seems pretty good compared to now ha Edited March 19, 2012 by palmer1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beag_teeets Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Who were the reserves in those days Pete ? You've made this point on a few threads, once in a direct reply to a reply I made to one of your points. I respect your opinion and knowledge of the game but I disagree with the point you are making regarding the reserve players we have. Finances dictate so much at the moment, clubs of our means are unable to carry 22 quality, first team quality players. I say 22 as this is 2 players for each position, even premier teams can't do this, Utd, City, Arse, Chelsea are the exception, Liverpool, Spurs and Newcastle can't nor can the teams below them throughout the divisions. Take 5 first team players out of any team above us (apart from the top 4 I have explicitly said can) and they would not be able to replace them with sufficient quality from their existing squads. Throw in the transfer windows and it is nigh on impossible for teams to cope with major losses of playing staff. We would not have enjoyed our successful seasons if Milligan and Henry had missed as many games as Furman and Wes have this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 (edited) You've made this point on a few threads, once in a direct reply to a reply I made to one of your points. I respect your opinion and knowledge of the game but I disagree with the point you are making regarding the reserve players we have. Finances dictate so much at the moment, clubs of our means are unable to carry 22 quality, first team quality players. I say 22 as this is 2 players for each position, even premier teams can't do this, Utd, City, Arse, Chelsea are the exception, Liverpool, Spurs and Newcastle can't nor can the teams below them throughout the divisions. Take 5 first team players out of any team above us (apart from the top 4 I have explicitly said can) and they would not be able to replace them with sufficient quality from their existing squads. Throw in the transfer windows and it is nigh on impossible for teams to cope with major losses of playing staff. We would not have enjoyed our successful seasons if Milligan and Henry had missed as many games as Furman and Wes have this season. What's let us down IMO is for Furman and Weslowski there is no like for like in the squad (except possibly Burns), one poster put it as pussycats for tigers. At least one terrier could have been brought in quite cheaply on loan, but with football it's all about opinions and I could be as right or wrong as the next man. Edited March 19, 2012 by BP1960 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsslatic Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 4-4-2 - wouldnt have got to Wembley but would beat the 11 that start for us nowadays Of course it bloody would, it's for a division above. OP's point stands - a decent side decimated will struggle. The current team is a decent one, but you cannot legislate (especially given our financial circumstances) for the injuries we're suffering at the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
palmer1 Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Of course it bloody would, it's for a division above. OP's point stands - a decent side decimated will struggle. The current team is a decent one, but you cannot legislate (especially given our financial circumstances) for the injuries we're suffering at the moment. no dont agree, yes it was the old second div which is now the championship but the game has moved on so much that that the old second divion is not a patch on the the championship now. the chamionship now is more like the prem when we where there...hope that makes sense my point is the teams (skill level) is not a division above and would probably be competeing in league 1 if it was around today......its still better than the current lot though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeylandLatic Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 What's let us down IMO is for Furman and Weslowski there is no like for like in the squad (except possibly Burns), one poster put it as pussycats for tigers. At least one terrier could have been brought in quite cheaply on loan, but with football it's all about opinions and I could be as right or wrong as the next man. Would they really be anywhere near as good as Wes or Furman? Of course not, if they were we wouldn't bother having them, we'd have these cheap, amazing players instead. We already have Adayemi and Brown on loan for midfield. Adayemi has done an ok job most of this season but looks a little out of his depth with no furman or wes alongside him. The bottom line is we have lost both our starting centre mids who are 2 of the best player in the first team and very good players for this division. If cheap replacements that could do a comparable job were available we wouldn't bother having these 2. How many midfield terriers should we have in reserve exactly? We've lost two, we have burns an untried but possibly talented youngster and then adayemi and brown (not sure I agree with his loan but I'm assuming he was the best of what was on offer) who give a different dimension. If we had four 'terriers' no doubt you'd be complaining we have no variation in that position if it's not working. Maybe we should have 6/7 central midfielders just in case something like this happens again? I mean we need a like for like replacement for Wes and Furman so that's four, then we need different dimensions so another two and then we're gonna need cover for those, you know, like for like. But then if they're all loan signings, maybe we aren't utilising our youth academy and the manager clearly doesn't understand about creating team spirit. Maybe we don't have enough strikers?! We need a two fast, two tall, two who can link play or work the flanks, cover for them all. This squad is getting a little silly, "we're carrying too much dead wood", sack the manager, his fault. Get someone else in, 1 year to "clear the decks", 6 weeks into second season, this is his squad and he isn't top of the league, WHY DON'T WE HAVE MORE MIDFIELDERS? This guy needs to get a grip and realise what's important - Midfielders and multiple ways in which we can cover their potential injuries and suspensions. After being on this messageboard pretty much since the start, it still amazes me the lengths at which people will go to to complain beyond all basic logic with absolutely no grounds do so whilst ignoring glaringly obvious limitations of our club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stargazer Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Hallworth Rhodes Irwin Barrett Warhurst - INJURED Marshall / Holden Barlow -INJURED Barrett Adams - INJURED Palmer Henry - INJURED Redfearn / Kane / Bernard Milligan - INJURED Redfearn / Kane / Bernard Holden Ritchie - INURED Currie / McGarvey / Moulden / Marshall Bunn Dependent upon exactly when, we did have match winners sat on the bench if needed. The loss of Simpson , Reid , Wes , Furman is too much at this level for a small club to absorb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danbob Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 There were less loan signings in those days as well. Having loads of monthly loan signings can't help many teams in the lower leagues. Loyalty to clubs can't be the same in most of these situations compared to signing for a club on a contract. Maybe I'm wrong? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
palmer1 Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 There were less loan signings in those days as well. Having loads of monthly loan signings can't help many teams in the lower leagues. Loyalty to clubs can't be the same in most of these situations compared to signing for a club on a contract. Maybe I'm wrong? Loyalty is one thing that is mentioned alot in todays game but back in the early 90's when a contract expired a player couldnt just walk away, a club could still demand a fee for a player. Basically they still owned the player until they decided they didnt want them anymore. I wonder if loyalty was talked about as much back then? now the payers have the power not the clubs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 (edited) Would they really be anywhere near as good as Wes or Furman? Of course not, if they were we wouldn't bother having them, we'd have these cheap, amazing players instead. We already have Adayemi and Brown on loan for midfield. Adayemi has done an ok job most of this season but looks a little out of his depth with no furman or wes alongside him. The bottom line is we have lost both our starting centre mids who are 2 of the best player in the first team and very good players for this division. If cheap replacements that could do a comparable job were available we wouldn't bother having these 2. How many midfield terriers should we have in reserve exactly? We've lost two, we have burns an untried but possibly talented youngster and then adayemi and brown (not sure I agree with his loan but I'm assuming he was the best of what was on offer) who give a different dimension. If we had four 'terriers' no doubt you'd be complaining we have no variation in that position if it's not working. Maybe we should have 6/7 central midfielders just in case something like this happens again? I mean we need a like for like replacement for Wes and Furman so that's four, then we need different dimensions so another two and then we're gonna need cover for those, you know, like for like. But then if they're all loan signings, maybe we aren't utilising our youth academy and the manager clearly doesn't understand about creating team spirit. Maybe we don't have enough strikers?! We need a two fast, two tall, two who can link play or work the flanks, cover for them all. This squad is getting a little silly, "we're carrying too much dead wood", sack the manager, his fault. Get someone else in, 1 year to "clear the decks", 6 weeks into second season, this is his squad and he isn't top of the league, WHY DON'T WE HAVE MORE MIDFIELDERS? This guy needs to get a grip and realise what's important - Midfielders and multiple ways in which we can cover their potential injuries and suspensions. After being on this messageboard pretty much since the start, it still amazes me the lengths at which people will go to to complain beyond all basic logic with absolutely no grounds do so whilst ignoring glaringly obvious limitations of our club. Adeyemi or Brown are not like for like for Furman or Wesolwoski, so why bring in Brown in particular when a terrier type was required ? And how do you know any replacements wouldn't be as good as Furman or Wesolowski ? not many rated Wesolowski too highly before he was signed. BTW if you want an example of a similar club to Latics who have turned it around look at Yeovi, and don't say they haven't had injury problems. Edited March 19, 2012 by BP1960 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobOAFC Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Adeyemi or Brown are not like for like for Furman or Wesolwoski, so why bring in Brown in particular when a terrier type was required ? And how do you know any replacements wouldn't be as good as Furman or Wesolowski ? not many rated Wesolowski too highly before he was signed. BTW if you want an example of a similar club to Latics who have turned it around look at Yeovi, and don't say they haven't had injury problems. Terrier type? Wes is a terrier type defensive midfielder. We brought in a holding midfield to break up attacks and allow Adeyemi to attack. Makes perfect sense, even if it hasn't paid off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 (edited) Terrier type? Wes is a terrier type defensive midfielder. We brought in a holding midfield to break up attacks and allow Adeyemi to attack. Makes perfect sense, even if it hasn't paid off. Who is this holding midfielder we have now who breaks up attacks...and how can it make perfect sense if it hasn't paid off ? Edited March 19, 2012 by BP1960 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobOAFC Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Who is this holding midfielder we have now who breaks up attacks...and how can it make perfect sense if it hasn't paid off ? Reece Brown was brought in to play as a holidng midfielder, as shown in his first few games. And didn't mean to type makes, meant made, as in made sense when PD brought him in at the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsslatic Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 The problem with Brown is that he's also :censored: in midfield. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 (edited) Reece Brown was brought in to play as a holidng midfielder, as shown in his first few games. And didn't mean to type makes, meant made, as in made sense when PD brought him in at the time. I see what you mean now, but Brown wasn't and isn't a midfield specialist in the mould of Wesolowski. Edited March 19, 2012 by BP1960 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeylandLatic Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Adeyemi or Brown are not like for like for Furman or Wesolwoski, so why bring in Brown in particular when a terrier type was required ? And how do you know any replacements wouldn't be as good as Furman or Wesolowski ? not many rated Wesolowski too highly before he was signed. BTW if you want an example of a similar club to Latics who have turned it around look at Yeovi, and don't say they haven't had injury problems. I said I don't necessarily agree with the signing of Brown and that Adayemi is there as something different. I really am not going to make the same argument again, the last post and the other ones on the same subject I've made regarding this point to you explain the situation perfectly. If you choose to not understand it so you can have a moan, that's fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 I said I don't necessarily agree with the signing of Brown and that Adayemi is there as something different. I really am not going to make the same argument again, the last post and the other ones on the same subject I've made regarding this point to you explain the situation perfectly. If you choose to not understand it so you can have a moan, that's fine. We cannot agree and that's fair enough, it's all about opinions after all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancy lad Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 I reckon the problem is having the money to bring in a midfield "terrier" with enough experience! I reckon United are paying for Brown and that is why we have to take him and his kind, because they are a freebie....... It will be United's last chance saloon to see if he can do anything before they send him to the football graveyard!!!! Obviously not worked out for all 3 parties but cost us nowt!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 The amount of :censored: we've had on loan over the last decade suggests that there aren't all that many obvious gems out there on the loan market. And even one of the best, Bertrand, was dogshot for half a dozen games. Maybe if we'd stuck with some of the others they would have come through as well. Or they might have carried on being :censored:. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusoe Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 I dunno. I reckon we're probably running 30/40/30 or 40/30/30 good/average/poor for loan signings. We've also had good ones - Beckett, Croft, Gregan, Rachubka, Simpson, Kilkenny, etc. You're always likely to face an uphill battle as players available for loan are likely to be unproven, unfit, or unwanted, and get very little time to gel with the rest of the team they're thrown in to. And in many cases, expected to be the finished article immediately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldhamandy1 Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Hard thing for younger players is coming into a side for a month and settling in time to make an impact, it is also made harder when you face a run of games. Brown has played six games before he signed for us, and has nearly doubled that in his short time here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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