Greedy league

[EASTLEY]

So you wouldn't join in the promotion party of we got there?

 

Football at this level maybe truer your right, the demise in value of the FA Cup is somewhat sad, as is the value of now playing for England I agree wholeheartedly with you.

 

However this still does not stop me wanting to be a part of it if we can, that’s what keeps me going and I would imagine a fair few others the hope that we can again one day reach the summit of the game no matter how distant that dream maybe at the moment there is always hope, alright we won't see the likes of a Messi in an Oldham shirt or the Champions league or Premiership trophy paraded at the civic centre but we can still have some kind of success.

 

That’s the point of our Motto Keep the faith because one day it will be rewarded.

Of course I would join in the promotion party if we got there, it would be an amazing achievement by the club.

Would I enjoy the games as much, whilst watching a team like Barca is a privilege(?)I am someone who enjoys the physical, blood n thunder football as well and am frustrated by the loss of the physical aspect of the game. Diving to get someone sent off or booked on the slightest contact to me is akin to spitting. Its gamesmanship and cheating of the lowest order. Saying that it would be great to see some of the skills on offer live, but its about balance to me around tackling(which in itself was a skill)and moving the ball around in weird and wonderful ways.

 

My comment around the greedy league is more about it being created to line the pockets of a few eg David Dein whilst pretending to be in it for the good of the game which history shows they were not. I also find it a sad state of affairs that the clubs have become play things for the biggest sugar daddies who have no real attachment to the club, fans or even the UK. I think for me as we move up the ladder then the club would itself become more distanced from people like myself who at the moment can actually feel that they know the club and some of the personalities that make it tick. This for me is sad as we may become another corporate entity that people dont have any real attachment to.

 

Many of the core maybe priced out of Oldham, lots of kids would wear the shirts but never get to go. If you look at many(not Wigan, Southampton, Fulham) premier league clubs the "fans" are middle aged men who watch the game, Dads and sons arent really there anymore(I believe the average age of fans has increased markedly)as they can't afford it anymore and then again is a sad consequence of the premier league, and why I wish we had a model more like Germany in that respect who seem to have what we miss in most areas - balance.

 

Just my thoughts and apologies for the length of the response, maybe I'm just a luddite who has never got to terms with the newer game we have.

[oafcprozac]

Been there done that, but the Premier Greed really is in a different Stratosphere at the moment. I agree that the costs would blow many of our fanbase out of the water. I remember back in 93/94 the London away games were nudging £30* to get in which was ridiculous when you bear in mind to stand at BP that year it was £7.50 in each of the 4 paddocks!

 

Then you look at the problems suffered by clubs who have gone up and spent to compete, the likes of Hull, Southampton, Portsmouth etc… have all found themselves 10 of millions in debt, with the likes of Bolton to surely follow. Blackpool have shown it can be done, but their revival was not gradual it simply exploded out of the blue a bunch of loanees clicked and carried them to promotion in 2007, a year or two of consolidation then promotion. So it is doable but this club will never progress imho under the present regime, we were between 2004-07 then the ladder was pulled up and survival became the ask. For me, success would be getting back into our traditional home over the last 40 years or so, namely the second tier but looking at the clubs and grounds in that league that dream is every bit as far away as the First Division Dream was in the mid-80s, never say never but we need an incredible amount of good fortune and need to hang onto to our better players over a period of time.

 

Going back to our time in the top-flight, foreigners were a rarity although there were guys like John Jensen, Kent Nielsen, Torben Piechnik, Erik Thorstvedt, Eric Cantona etc plying their trade and of course our own Gunnar Halle but the football was much more exciting in our first year The Scum and Leeds title race went to the wire. The year after Villa and Norwich pushed United all the way and until probably the 98/99 season it was still a top, top league to watch. Since then the quality for me has waned as teams have began rotating their team week in week out, :censored:ty sterile formations and teams even going out without a striker in their team and we constantly see this tippy tappy :censored: that may be ok for Spain but it can be incredibly tedious when the ball never goes forward. Inevitably these tactics filter down the leagues and we have guys like Dickov taking it as gospel and the result is the :censored: we saw on Saturday. The Foreign managers imho have mainly had a negative effect on our game and stifled good young English Coaches' development and good young English footballers in favour of more and more workmanlike, athletic African and Scandanavian players.

 

Latics away at Fulham, Reading or Wigan or a proper football day out at Crawley, Kiddy or Portsmouth? I'd take the latter three every time. It's sad that our supporters in their mid-20s haven't seen the big-time and it was great whilst it lasted, but the dream we subscribed to in the late 80s, early 90s is a different one now. If they want to experience similar to what we did then the Cup adventures apart, they'd be better off seeing us in the Championship.

 

 

*I refused to go to Newcastle in the League Cup in '96, as the asking price of £18 was more than double what we were paying at the time. How time's have changed. I think once on the day admission hits £30, that'll be it for away games for me….

[TheBigDog]

Been there done that, but the Premier Greed really is in a different Stratosphere at the moment. I agree that the costs would blow many of our fanbase out of the water. I remember back in 93/94 the London away games were nudging £30* to get in which was ridiculous when you bear in mind to stand at BP that year it was £7.50 in each of the 4 paddocks!

 

Then you look at the problems suffered by clubs who have gone up and spent to compete, the likes of Hull, Southampton, Portsmouth etc… have all found themselves 10 of millions in debt, with the likes of Bolton to surely follow. Blackpool have shown it can be done, but their revival was not gradual it simply exploded out of the blue a bunch of loanees clicked and carried them to promotion in 2007, a year or two of consolidation then promotion. So it is doable but this club will never progress imho under the present regime, we were between 2004-07 then the ladder was pulled up and survival became the ask. For me, success would be getting back into our traditional home over the last 40 years or so, namely the second tier but looking at the clubs and grounds in that league that dream is every bit as far away as the First Division Dream was in the mid-80s, never say never but we need an incredible amount of good fortune and need to hang onto to our better players over a period of time.

 

Going back to our time in the top-flight, foreigners were a rarity although there were guys like John Jensen, Kent Nielsen, Torben Piechnik, Erik Thorstvedt, Eric Cantona etc plying their trade and of course our own Gunnar Halle but the football was much more exciting in our first year The Scum and Leeds title race went to the wire. The year after Villa and Norwich pushed United all the way and until probably the 98/99 season it was still a top, top league to watch. Since then the quality for me has waned as teams have began rotating their team week in week out, :censored:ty sterile formations and teams even going out without a striker in their team and we constantly see this tippy tappy :censored: that may be ok for Spain but it can be incredibly tedious when the ball never goes forward. Inevitably these tactics filter down the leagues and we have guys like Dickov taking it as gospel and the result is the :censored: we saw on Saturday. The Foreign managers imho have mainly had a negative effect on our game and stifled good young English Coaches' development and good young English footballers in favour of more and more workmanlike, athletic African and Scandanavian players.

 

Latics away at Fulham, Reading or Wigan or a proper football day out at Crawley, Kiddy or Portsmouth? I'd take the latter three every time. It's sad that our supporters in their mid-20s haven't seen the big-time and it was great whilst it lasted, but the dream we subscribed to in the late 80s, early 90s is a different one now. If they want to experience similar to what we did then the Cup adventures apart, they'd be better off seeing us in the Championship.

 

 

*I refused to go to Newcastle in the League Cup in '96, as the asking price of £18 was more than double what we were paying at the time. How time's have changed. I think once on the day admission hits £30, that'll be it for away games for me….

 

I agree with the majoority of what you write but your penultimate paragraph does not really resonate:

 

A strange comparison that you make:

'Latics away at Fulham, Reading or Wigan or a proper football day out at Crawley, Kiddy or Portsmouth? I'd take the latter three every time.'

 

Fulham: - great traditional football ground in the heart of London - many superb pubs and a great away day.

Reading - fantastic stadium and facilities and a very friendly club too - oh and it is 12 miles from my front door...

Wigan - a chance to renew rivalries with a club that stole our nickname - not too far a trip so we would take a fair few - we are Latics

 

Each of the above three is far more attractive a fixture than Crawley or Portsmouth - Kidderminster was a cup game so an unfair comparison.

 

As was written earlier - what would you rather be looking forward to - Arsenal, Man Utd, Man City, Liverpool, Chelsea, Tottenham, Newcastle, etc

or Sheffield Utd, MK Dons, Tranmere, Doncaster, Swindon... and I know that the prices would be a lot higher but we would only be paying then for a season at most...

[Tommy_Fent]

Been there done that, but the Premier Greed really is in a different Stratosphere at the moment. I agree that the costs would blow many of our fanbase out of the water. I remember back in 93/94 the London away games were nudging £30* to get in which was ridiculous when you bear in mind to stand at BP that year it was £7.50 in each of the 4 paddocks!

 

Then you look at the problems suffered by clubs who have gone up and spent to compete, the likes of Hull, Southampton, Portsmouth etc… have all found themselves 10 of millions in debt, with the likes of Bolton to surely follow. Blackpool have shown it can be done, but their revival was not gradual it simply exploded out of the blue a bunch of loanees clicked and carried them to promotion in 2007, a year or two of consolidation then promotion. So it is doable but this club will never progress imho under the present regime, we were between 2004-07 then the ladder was pulled up and survival became the ask. For me, success would be getting back into our traditional home over the last 40 years or so, namely the second tier but looking at the clubs and grounds in that league that dream is every bit as far away as the First Division Dream was in the mid-80s, never say never but we need an incredible amount of good fortune and need to hang onto to our better players over a period of time.

 

Going back to our time in the top-flight, foreigners were a rarity although there were guys like John Jensen, Kent Nielsen, Torben Piechnik, Erik Thorstvedt, Eric Cantona etc plying their trade and of course our own Gunnar Halle but the football was much more exciting in our first year The Scum and Leeds title race went to the wire. The year after Villa and Norwich pushed United all the way and until probably the 98/99 season it was still a top, top league to watch. Since then the quality for me has waned as teams have began rotating their team week in week out, :censored:ty sterile formations and teams even going out without a striker in their team and we constantly see this tippy tappy :censored: that may be ok for Spain but it can be incredibly tedious when the ball never goes forward. Inevitably these tactics filter down the leagues and we have guys like Dickov taking it as gospel and the result is the :censored: we saw on Saturday. The Foreign managers imho have mainly had a negative effect on our game and stifled good young English Coaches' development and good young English footballers in favour of more and more workmanlike, athletic African and Scandanavian players.

 

Latics away at Fulham, Reading or Wigan or a proper football day out at Crawley, Kiddy or Portsmouth? I'd take the latter three every time. It's sad that our supporters in their mid-20s haven't seen the big-time and it was great whilst it lasted, but the dream we subscribed to in the late 80s, early 90s is a different one now. If they want to experience similar to what we did then the Cup adventures apart, they'd be better off seeing us in the Championship.

 

 

*I refused to go to Newcastle in the League Cup in '96, as the asking price of £18 was more than double what we were paying at the time. How time's have changed. I think once on the day admission hits £30, that'll be it for away games for me….

 

I watched Schalke vs Eintracht Frankfurt on Saturday and Chelsea vs Man City yesterday and it seemed to me that in both games either side had the same emphasis of keeping the ball and both teams were relatively close in the League table but in the German game they were a hell of a lot more effective with their passing and although it only ended in a 1-1 draw it was a refreshing change seeing two sides really going for one another, whereas in the Premiership game yesterday both sides were too afraid to lose and it seems like this everytime Sky advertise their "Mega Duper Sunday" nonesense. To me a lot of the popularity of the Prem is the way the media in this country have hyped it up, like another fan said, I'd like us to be there but I do wish the Prem was run a lot more like the Bundesliga. Will we ever see a side get promoted to the Premiership and the following season challenge for the title? It won't because the likes of Man Utd, Chelsea etc are global brands that make millions out of China, USA, India etc and are just way too powerful to compete with. The most ironic thing about Man Utd was that they became the club they are now by "doing it for the hardworking people of Trafford Park, Manchester and Salford" nowadays the children and Grandchildren of these hardworking people who built their club are now priced out in favour of daytrippers from all over the world who are prepared to pay more for a ticket than them. I hope our club never gets like this, because to me the local community is to me what makes a Football club

[Tommy_Fent]

sorry double post

Edited November 26, 2012 by Tommy_Fent

[pukka]

Been there done that, but the Premier Greed really is in a different Stratosphere at the moment. I agree that the costs would blow many of our fanbase out of the water. I remember back in 93/94 the London away games were nudging £30* to get in which was ridiculous when you bear in mind to stand at BP that year it was £7.50 in each of the 4 paddocks!

 

Then you look at the problems suffered by clubs who have gone up and spent to compete, the likes of Hull, Southampton, Portsmouth etc… have all found themselves 10 of millions in debt, with the likes of Bolton to surely follow. Blackpool have shown it can be done, but their revival was not gradual it simply exploded out of the blue a bunch of loanees clicked and carried them to promotion in 2007, a year or two of consolidation then promotion. So it is doable but this club will never progress imho under the present regime, we were between 2004-07 then the ladder was pulled up and survival became the ask. For me, success would be getting back into our traditional home over the last 40 years or so, namely the second tier but looking at the clubs and grounds in that league that dream is every bit as far away as the First Division Dream was in the mid-80s, never say never but we need an incredible amount of good fortune and need to hang onto to our better players over a period of time.

 

Going back to our time in the top-flight, foreigners were a rarity although there were guys like John Jensen, Kent Nielsen, Torben Piechnik, Erik Thorstvedt, Eric Cantona etc plying their trade and of course our own Gunnar Halle but the football was much more exciting in our first year The Scum and Leeds title race went to the wire. The year after Villa and Norwich pushed United all the way and until probably the 98/99 season it was still a top, top league to watch. Since then the quality for me has waned as teams have began rotating their team week in week out, :censored:ty sterile formations and teams even going out without a striker in their team and we constantly see this tippy tappy :censored: that may be ok for Spain but it can be incredibly tedious when the ball never goes forward. Inevitably these tactics filter down the leagues and we have guys like Dickov taking it as gospel and the result is the :censored: we saw on Saturday. The Foreign managers imho have mainly had a negative effect on our game and stifled good young English Coaches' development and good young English footballers in favour of more and more workmanlike, athletic African and Scandanavian players.

 

Latics away at Fulham, Reading or Wigan or a proper football day out at Crawley, Kiddy or Portsmouth? I'd take the latter three every time. It's sad that our supporters in their mid-20s haven't seen the big-time and it was great whilst it lasted, but the dream we subscribed to in the late 80s, early 90s is a different one now. If they want to experience similar to what we did then the Cup adventures apart, they'd be better off seeing us in the Championship.

 

 

*I refused to go to Newcastle in the League Cup in '96, as the asking price of £18 was more than double what we were paying at the time. How time's have changed. I think once on the day admission hits £30, that'll be it for away games for me….

The quality of the premier league is far higher now than in 1992/93. Last season was the most exciting Premier league title race ever. More goals than ever. Look at the Villa side of 93. That side finished 2nd. Where do you think that would finish now? I think it would be lucky to finish top half.For me the premier league hit it's peak in quality a few years ago maybe 07/08 (ish). It's dropped off a lot in regards to quality, but excitement wise it's up there. This weekend is a bad weekend to pick, but on the whole it's been exciting, generally cos the defences are pretty crap and a lack of any really solid sides throughout the division. (Barring stoke who generally don't concede many and Norwich over the last 4/5 games)

[keep_the_faith]

sky have ruined the league. Not denying the quality we have here. But the skills and flair of individuals/teams makes up 10% of the overall matchday experience. If your an armchair :censored:, I can see why you'd think its the best league around. If your an actual real fan, noone can claim its what it was when we were there.

 

Newcastle having to travel to Southampton on a sunday. Only way that journey could be tolerable for me would be train. That clearly wouldnt of been an option.

(on 2nd thoughts, just realised this was probably due to newcastle playing the previous thursday. uefa's greed is another issue though. But u get my point and theres plenty of other examples)

 

Noone gives a toss about the fans.

Edited November 26, 2012 by keep_the_faith

[Tommy_Fent]

sky have ruined the league. Not denying the quality we have here. But the skills and flair of individuals/teams makes up 10% of the overall matchday experience. If your an armchair :censored:, I can see why you'd think its the best league around. If your an actual real fan, noone can claim its what it was when we were there.

 

Newcastle having to travel to Southampton on a sunday. Only way that journey could be tolerable for me would be train. That clearly wouldnt of been an option.

 

Noone gives a toss about the fans.

 

Sky are a business and basically only care about the people using their service. In some ways you can hardly blame them but this leads to situations like we had the other week in Sheffield when you had 6,000 pissed up Leeds fans invading the city who had been drinking all day and causing complete chaos on a Friday night. It's up to the clubs and police to stand up to them rather than take the money (although I can't see Leeds playing in Sheffield any later than 12 noon anytime soon)

[rudemedic]

Newcastle having to travel to Southampton on a sunday. Only way that journey could be tolerable for me would be train. That clearly wouldnt of been an option.

 

Noone gives a toss about the fans.

Newcastle didnt play Southampton on Sunday due to Sky or the Premier League. They did so because Newcastle were playing in the Europa League on Thursday night and it would have been unfair for them to have to play Thursday and then Saturday. That has very little to do with either Sky or the Premier League.

 

In fact the train journey from Newcastle to Southampton and back to watch football is not significantly altered on a Sunday compared to a Saturday. In fact we have just as difficult train journeys this season.

 

Plus whilst I haven't looked it would probably be possible to travel by plane.

 

[Tommy_Fent]

Newcastle didnt play Southampton on Sunday due to Sky or the Premier League. They did so because Newcastle were playing in the Europa League on Thursday night and it would have been unfair for them to have to play Thursday and then Saturday. That has very little to do with either Sky or the Premier League.

 

In fact the train journey from Newcastle to Southampton and back to watch football is not significantly altered on a Sunday compared to a Saturday. In fact we have just as difficult train journeys this season.

 

Plus whilst I haven't looked it would probably be possible to travel by plane.

 

But the other season they had to play Plymouth on a Friday night, which incidentally was in the Championship. So I suppose it's not just the Premier League that is affected by TV Scheduling

[keep_the_faith]

Newcastle didnt play Southampton on Sunday due to Sky or the Premier League. They did so because Newcastle were playing in the Europa League on Thursday night and it would have been unfair for them to have to play Thursday and then Saturday. That has very little to do with either Sky or the Premier League.

 

In fact the train journey from Newcastle to Southampton and back to watch football is not significantly altered on a Sunday compared to a Saturday. In fact we have just as difficult train journeys this season.

 

Plus whilst I haven't looked it would probably be possible to travel by plane.

 

 

Yeah just edited the post after realising. Plenty of other examples though. In league 1 and the championship to a lesser extent, efforts are made to make sure teams dont have to travel too far for midweek games. Very rare we've been given a southern based game on a Tuesday, I remember Colchester a couple of years ago but i think that was forced after a postponed saturday fixture?

 

Tuesday and Wednesday all the prem are in action. Sunderland v QPR, Everton v Arsenal, United v west Ham. Wheres the consideration for the fans there?

 

P.S Regarding the trains thing, iv not researched the timesprobably are similar. But doubt there would be a direct train on either day, must roll into Newcastle well after midnight after a 3pm K.O. Bit of a bastard if your up at 6 am for work following day.

 

Does anyone travel by air for an away? Never understood why peoiple go through the hell that is airports for internal flights in this country!!

Edited November 26, 2012 by keep_the_faith

[oafcmetty]

Does anyone travel by air for an away? Never understood why peoiple go through the hell that is airports for internal flights in this country!!

We came back from Crawley with BA - civilised!

 

Back on the topic - can't wait till a Euro super league is formed, and all the 'mega' clubs can feck off to it - then the top flight will be competitive again. Sure, tv money will be down, and a lot of clubs will suffer, but the pyramid will come alive again.

[GlossopLatic]

Of course I would join in the promotion party if we got there, it would be an amazing achievement by the club.

Would I enjoy the games as much, whilst watching a team like Barca is a privilege(?)I am someone who enjoys the physical, blood n thunder football as well and am frustrated by the loss of the physical aspect of the game. Diving to get someone sent off or booked on the slightest contact to me is akin to spitting. Its gamesmanship and cheating of the lowest order. Saying that it would be great to see some of the skills on offer live, but its about balance to me around tackling(which in itself was a skill)and moving the ball around in weird and wonderful ways.

 

My comment around the greedy league is more about it being created to line the pockets of a few eg David Dein whilst pretending to be in it for the good of the game which history shows they were not. I also find it a sad state of affairs that the clubs have become play things for the biggest sugar daddies who have no real attachment to the club, fans or even the UK. I think for me as we move up the ladder then the club would itself become more distanced from people like myself who at the moment can actually feel that they know the club and some of the personalities that make it tick. This for me is sad as we may become another corporate entity that people dont have any real attachment to.

 

Many of the core maybe priced out of Oldham, lots of kids would wear the shirts but never get to go. If you look at many(not Wigan, Southampton, Fulham) premier league clubs the "fans" are middle aged men who watch the game, Dads and sons arent really there anymore(I believe the average age of fans has increased markedly)as they can't afford it anymore and then again is a sad consequence of the premier league, and why I wish we had a model more like Germany in that respect who seem to have what we miss in most areas - balance.

 

Just my thoughts and apologies for the length of the response, maybe I'm just a luddite who has never got to terms with the newer game we have.

 

 

No need to apologise I think you've made some very valid points their. While I would happily love to see us grace the PL again its not something that would stop me supporting us in our current state.

 

With regards to the money men I think its less the likes of David Dein and more the players who have prospered most from the PL and the agents who make ridiculous amounts of money for very little work making 6 figures for a few hours work and putting nothing back into Football as a sport.

 

The sugar daddies and their play things is quite a sad state of affairs as well Abramovich is far too powerful and is becoming a Darth Vader character (You have failed me for the last time) Could you imagine him turning up to a fans forum to answer questions on the managerial sackings that his club go through and the increasingly questionable ethics of Chelsea Football club. Probably the worst case here is Portsmouth a few guys came in had a bit of a ride and dumped the club and left them in ruins. People have said on this board that they would like to see Portsmouth go bust as it would be a lesson to the rest of football. Really? The only people who would get punished if Portsmouth went under are the fans who have suffered enough in the last 4-5 years the people who caused the damage have long gone and have got off Scot free they don't give a crap if Pompey go under or not and if they went bust it wouldn't stop people coming in and doing the same thing. In this respect I think those who run football clubs need to be held a lot more accountable.

 

With regards to the physical aspect this has seemed to go out the game that’s because every tackle that causes a bad injury in particularly leg or ankle breaks the whole thing is somewhat graphically played out through the media and some player become vilified for this. Felt abit sorry for Ryan Shawcross a few years ago taking out Aaron Ramsey he clearly went for the ball and caused a nasty injury it was horrific but Shawcross himself clearly went for the ball. The way Arsene Wenger wines on against the northern more physical sides is particularly pathetic and seems to be an attempt to make football too sanitised and even expecting everyone should play the exact same way. Part of the fun about football is that every team you face offers a different challenge.

 

Still its an interesting debate and if you went back 30 years I bet people would be levelling the same accusations at the sides at the top of football too commercial, too much of a business, players paid too much.

[Dave_Og]

If you look in the Oxford Dictionary of Common Figures of Speech look under "Turkey Voting For Christmas" and it says "Oldham Athletic - Founder Members of the Premier League"

[Oh Heck C-Beck]

Still its an interesting debate and if you went back 30 years I bet people would be levelling the same accusations at the sides at the top of football too commercial, too much of a business, players paid too much.

 

For me this is the key - of course there are many negative aspects to the "modern" game and the Premier League, but in reality while we can all have a good moan and whine at the end of the day Oldham Athletic are in the professional football business in England and Premier League is the pinnacle. It's all very well getting nostalgic but we would all love to be back there and the journey to the top and if for whatever reason we managed to do a Wigan and keep up there I doubt there would be many complaints.

 

Give me Man United, Man City, Chelsea, Arsenal, Aston Villa, Newcastle, Sunderland, Everton, Liverpool home and away over the :censored: I've had to endure in my time watching Oldham any day of the week, we have not all been lucky enough to take in the pinch me years, but I am sure all those like me would like too

Edited November 26, 2012 by Oh Heck C-Beck

[EASTLEY]

No need to apologise I think you've made some very valid points their. While I would happily love to see us grace the PL again its not something that would stop me supporting us in our current state.

 

With regards to the money men I think its less the likes of David Dein and more the players who have prospered most from the PL and the agents who make ridiculous amounts of money for very little work making 6 figures for a few hours work and putting nothing back into Football as a sport.

 

The sugar daddies and their play things is quite a sad state of affairs as well Abramovich is far too powerful and is becoming a Darth Vader character (You have failed me for the last time) Could you imagine him turning up to a fans forum to answer questions on the managerial sackings that his club go through and the increasingly questionable ethics of Chelsea Football club. Probably the worst case here is Portsmouth a few guys came in had a bit of a ride and dumped the club and left them in ruins. People have said on this board that they would like to see Portsmouth go bust as it would be a lesson to the rest of football. Really? The only people who would get punished if Portsmouth went under are the fans who have suffered enough in the last 4-5 years the people who caused the damage have long gone and have got off Scot free they don't give a crap if Pompey go under or not and if they went bust it wouldn't stop people coming in and doing the same thing. In this respect I think those who run football clubs need to be held a lot more accountable.

 

With regards to the physical aspect this has seemed to go out the game that’s because every tackle that causes a bad injury in particularly leg or ankle breaks the whole thing is somewhat graphically played out through the media and some player become vilified for this. Felt abit sorry for Ryan Shawcross a few years ago taking out Aaron Ramsey he clearly went for the ball and caused a nasty injury it was horrific but Shawcross himself clearly went for the ball. The way Arsene Wenger wines on against the northern more physical sides is particularly pathetic and seems to be an attempt to make football too sanitised and even expecting everyone should play the exact same way. Part of the fun about football is that every team you face offers a different challenge.

 

Still its an interesting debate and if you went back 30 years I bet people would be levelling the same accusations at the sides at the top of football too commercial, too much of a business, players paid too much.

 

Your last point is very accurate - I remember Alan Hardy being vilified back in 1990 as he was pandering to the new fans rather than than the 5-6k hardcore. I agree with your comments about the agents though I think the Bosman ruling has contributed to this with the agents and premier league clubs taking advantage of the shift in power to players and agents. I do agree with your views around why tackling has been moved out of the game as well and Arsenal with their total football have long campaigned against the physical side(especially after the injuries at Birmingham and Stoke).

 

It'll be interesting to see where football moves on but I for one still have an affinity with latics and lower league football(probably because its nearer the level I ever managed to play than the very different game played in the prem)and as I said earlier enjoy more of the blood n thunder - seeing Andy Holden win tackles and even contests with Milligan and Henry against McNab et al still makes the hairs on the back of my neck stand up ;) Was all good and still is mostly when you think about it. As for KTF that for me is about the club surviving the tough times and giving us those glimpses which make it our special club, we need an Everton moment or an Arsenal 3-1 game to put the smiles back on our faces ;)

[Dave_Og]

, we need an Everton moment or an Arsenal 3-1 game to put the smiles back on our faces ;)

Beating Arsenal youth team reserves wouldn't be quite the same though...

[Frankly Mr Shankly]

sky have ruined the league. Not denying the quality we have here. But the skills and flair of individuals/teams makes up 10% of the overall matchday experience.

 

It's quite ironic really isn't it? Whilst Sky have effectively ruined things by thoroughly bloating footballers salaries, creating a huge gap between divisions and pressurising clubs to gamble their whole existence on being cannon fodder, they've kinda done the opposite for cricket. It's a sport that's been given a massive lease of life, a completely new generation of fans and the knock-on effect of helping England to being one of the best teams in the world. There must be thousands of people like my mate in Scotland who's hugely into the game thanks to Sky's superb coverage of the sport. Money is filtered the right way down to grass roots and the TV coverage is both entertaining, educational and full of likeable characters. The only pundit I like in football with any kind of genuine affection is Pat Nevin, and he's rarely on TV coverage.

[opinions4u]

Money is filtered the right way down to grass roots

 

And here you have it. This is where the Premiership and The FA got it so wrong in the early nineties.

 

They took Sky's money, helped by the fact that people like me paid for it. They then shoved it straight in to the pockets of agents, foreign footballers and semi-talented Brits who promptly built ugly modern mansions and increased trade at the local brothel with it - while at the same time avoiding tax on a large chunk of the obscene wage.

 

Back in the day it was worth a top division footballer halving his money and stepping down a league or two to top up his pension and wind down his playing career. These days they're wealthy enough by the age of 20 to never need to work again.

 

You see Manchester United able to double the capacity of an already fine stadium. Manchester City able to build a new facility far better than they ever had before. Stockport sell their souls to the evil egg chasers and drop out of the league. Latics disappear temporarily to be reborn with owners who knock things down to save annual costs that Wayne Rooney earns in 4 days.

 

Changing rooms knocked down in local parks that have drainage systems as effective as an ocean. School playing fields sold off for housing. New schools built by local authorities without any outdoor sporting facilities.

 

It's a complete :censored: up.

[sykelatic1]

And here you have it. This is where the Premiership and The FA got it so wrong in the early nineties.

 

They took Sky's money, helped by the fact that people like me paid for it. They then shoved it straight in to the pockets of agents, foreign footballers and semi-talented Brits who promptly built ugly modern mansions and increased trade at the local brothel with it - while at the same time avoiding tax on a large chunk of the obscene wage.

 

Back in the day it was worth a top division footballer halving his money and stepping down a league or two to top up his pension and wind down his playing career. These days they're wealthy enough by the age of 20 to never need to work again.

 

You see Manchester United able to double the capacity of an already fine stadium. Manchester City able to build a new facility far better than they ever had before. Stockport sell their souls to the evil egg chasers and drop out of the league. Latics disappear temporarily to be reborn with owners who knock things down to save annual costs that Wayne Rooney earns in 4 days.

 

Changing rooms knocked down in local parks that have drainage systems as effective as an ocean. School playing fields sold off for housing. New schools built by local authorities without any outdoor sporting facilities.

 

It's a complete :censored: up.

 

so true.....

[EASTLEY]

so true.....

 

I donb't disagree with this at all, though I think the Bosman helped hurt clubs like ourselves and Stockport and only benefited some of the average players and to league clubs who managed to save on transfer fees and then have blown the savings on wages inflating them through the leagues. A double whammy so to speak.

 

This was compounded even further last year when the premier league threatened to turn off funding from the lower league clubs if they didnt reduce the compensation required for allowing young players registrations to move. It just fuels my dislike of the governing bodies and self -effacing clubs when I see things like that. One day it will all implode though as the TV rights monies go to the clubs and the top 6 will run off to Europe and they will be broadcast 24*7 leaving the rest of us to get back to maybe not the best qulaity but more competitive football ;)(Maybe thats a pipe dream)

[jimsleftfoot]

Whilst people use the germans as an example of how things should be, in the last month the Barcelona supremo/Chair of the European Club Association has said the top clubs will quit the Champions League by 2014 unless UEFA sort it out. By Sort it out, they want the old chestnut of the top leagues being reduced to a minimum of 16 so that they can play CL games on the weekend and 'high profile friendlies'. UEFA have now retorted that they are thinking of getting rid of the Europa League and sticking everyone in the 'Champions etc. League'.

 

Doesn't look like anyones interested in the bottom clubs does it.

[EASTLEY]

Again this looks like a step towards the European league which they can do.

 

What it may do though is reduce the power of the premier league and therefore the average earnings of the players in it, hopefully in turn deflating wages further down the pyramid.

 

It depends whether interest can be kept in the product and the product down through the championship and leagues - in my view it could go one of two ways, either everybody will just watch the European league on the tv and attendences/tv money will drop in the domestic game creating massive issues for domestic football especially league 1 and 2 which may disappear, regionalise and or go part time.

 

Alternatively people may watch the European Super league on the tv but decide they have more affinity with local(ish)clubs and still want to go to the live spectacle(which hopefully in the European league is prohibitively expensive to attend)and will filter back towards championship/lower league clubs.

 

As the tv money will be much lower for many more clubs(as the european league will be where all the investment will be)players will not be offered ridiculous salaries by as many clubs(as there will be less getting the silly amounts of tv revenue)so teams like Oldham will be more likely and able to compete to sign average players.

 

Hope that makes sense

 

I fear the result maybe the former though

[Tommy_Fent]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/20523405