opinions4u Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 it's about 500 extra supporters at each home match Our lower crowds are to blame for this being proposed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oh Heck C-Beck Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 For a anyone saying don't copy Crewe remember while they may have been in l2 recently while we have been stagnating they have also enjoyed the championship...their model provides long term survival scrapping our youth team IMO will accelerate our demise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevie_J Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 Yeah that's pretty much where I am - I'm a bit stunned to be honest. Worries me that those at the top don't seem to have a vision or a roadmap - in no way should this be a fan-driven decision. I mean, it's good that they're asking for input rather than just cutting it, but I'd have hoped that the answer was obvious and that they wouldn't have to ask. We're never going to be a united or city, our best bet is to aim for the bolton's of this world - build a strong community club, get the people of oldham something to be proud of and something they can relate to, and live within our means whilst others clubs go for the boom and bust approach. Similar to what Lags has said above, those in charge appear to have already decided they want to scrap. They don't want the fans' input so much as they want to know how much of a fuss it will cause if they follow through on their decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafcprozac Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 (edited) Procession of loanees or give our kids a go? I know what I want, and it's not the loanees. The club's very existence was at threat under Stitch should we have gone down, his squad was 75% home grown, we had no choice to give them a go and they did us proud by keeping us in the division. I can see the argument, but it is yet again more down sizing of our club by Corney. This imo will kill the club once and for all, it's madness not to produce your own players. If this happens I walk away and for good…... No budget to bring players in, and seemingly no budget to produce our own. There's no hope is there? Edited January 11, 2013 by oafcprozac Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_mighty_bosh Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 For me it would be a no brainer...if it wasn't for the EPPP. I think we should wait and see the effect this plan has on transfer fees before considering scrapping our youth setup. It's given us reported 6-figure sums from selling each of Eaves, Philliskirk and Spencer. If we can only generate a very small fraction of those fees by producing and selling players then it's not worth it but if we are well compensated by the set system for the future performance of the player (i.e. future sell on clauses or installments after x, y and z appearances) then it's worth keeping. I'm not from the town but I love seeing players who graduate from the youth system playing for the 1st team, it strengthens the club's identity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevie_J Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 For me it would be a no brainer...if it wasn't for the EPPP. I think we should wait and see the effect this plan has on transfer fees before considering scrapping our youth setup. It's given us reported 6-figure sums from selling each of Eaves, Philliskirk and Spencer. If we can only generate a very small fraction of those fees by producing and selling players then it's not worth it but if we are well compensated by the set system for the future performance of the player (i.e. future sell on clauses or installments after x, y and z appearances) then it's worth keeping. I'm not from the town but I love seeing players who graduate from the youth system playing for the 1st team, it strengthens the club's identity. Thinking about the players we've sold over the past few years, I would be amazed if the youth set up hasn't paid for itself. The money received for Richards, Spencer, Eaves, Philiskirk, Eardley and Trotman (I know he was at Burnley but he was spotted by TP and brought into our youth setup) must more than cover the cost of the youth setup over the period in which we sold those players (and any others I've missed). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 (edited) And some Latics released; http://www.football-...2293301_2274478 http://www.htafc.com...3&tcmuri=153956 And a couple of youths on trial who went elsewhere; http://scfc2.co.uk/profile.aspx?id=5 http://menmedia.co.u...slipped-the-net Edited January 11, 2013 by BP1960 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_mighty_bosh Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 Thinking about the players we've sold over the past few years, I would be amazed if the youth set up hasn't paid for itself. The money received for Richards, Spencer, Eaves, Philiskirk, Eardley and Trotman (I know he was at Burnley but he was spotted by TP and brought into our youth setup) must more than cover the cost of the youth setup over the period in which we sold those players (and any others I've missed). If we could keep negotiating our own fees for youth players in the future then it would definitely pay for itself imo. But if the EPPP puts a fixed fee on buying prospects from teams like us (which from stories I've read about it so far is likely to badly undervalue the players worth) then bigger teams are going to entice youngsters away en masse, knowing that the smaller club can do nothing to prevent themselves being screwed over on nigh on every good player they produce, even the one's who would normally only make 1st team appearances for the club they've developed at. If that's the case then keeping the youth setup serves no purpose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_mighty_bosh Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 http://menmedia.co.u...slipped-the-net Didn't Dawson break his leg when he was here on trial which put paid to his move? Or am I thinking of someone else? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 It would be folly if the Latics scrapped the youth scheme and lost out on this tremendous prospect who the pundits raved about when he played against England. Many believe he will go right to the top. http://www.oldhamathletic.co.uk/news/article/20121120-byrnes-497525.aspx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 Didn't Dawson break his leg when he was here on trial which put paid to his move? Or am I thinking of someone else? Think so, but I understand there was the option of waiting for his recovery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobOAFC Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 Procession of loanees or give our kids a go? I know what I want, and it's not the loanees. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/news/8969167/Football-League-clubs-dealt-huge-blow-after-Fifa-decides-emergency-loans-contravene-its-rules.html No choice from 2014. Youth players would be needed to cover first team injuries/suspensions as we wouldn't be able to bring any in on loan. Scrapping the youth system would mean once injuries/suspensions start to kick in, we'd have no cover at all. Hope the club think about this in their decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudemedic Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 And some Latics released; http://www.football-...2293301_2274478 http://www.htafc.com...3&tcmuri=153956 And a couple of youths on trial who went elsewhere; http://scfc2.co.uk/profile.aspx?id=5 http://menmedia.co.u...slipped-the-net Ashley Williams reminds me- does anyone know what happened when Mo**e left to our youth team? As we missed out on 2 players who were 19 and 20 at the time Ashley Williams was one and this bloke was the other http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Carney Factor in Tierney as well and that's 3 very good defenders all within 2 years age of each other without mentioning Richards and Eardley who were a few years behind them. No youth team essentially means no reserves which means no triallists during the season too. With no emergency loans during the season I think it means we are in serious danger of truly going out of business. Now why do we have a trust and a trust man on the board? Who was it that asked the question? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opinions4u Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 IIRC Stockport got £500k for Williams before they won their play-off final. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigfatjoe1 Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 I'm in a very small minority when i say this, and I understand the arguments in favour of a youth orientated approach, but i think it has become increasingly less viable for many years. I don't want to be another Crewe. An effective youth system is great if it makes financial sense. It doesn't any more. I want us to move forward into the Championship. I'd like to see us take the crumbs from Premier teams (Wabara, Reece Brown, Evina etc), and to build a more mature squad that takes us forward. Bringing through young players means having the patience to see them grow and then sell them on. What's the point? We'll never move forward, only sideways at best. I don't want to be a nursery for others. Those who believe in the Crewe approach take a kind of moral high ground, or they're often patronising commentators. The fact is it won't take us anywhere Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 (edited) If all clubs except the rich ones followed the Wycombe policy where would those kids deemed not good enough at an early age go to learn their trade ?..,many would .probably pack the game in, with late developing talent untapped - what a waste that would be. Edited January 12, 2013 by BP1960 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slystallone Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 We've been down the scrapping of the reserves before havent we? IIRC it was Shez / Corney who made that call, and withdrew their registration from the reserve league. That turned out to a terrible decision. So will this. It wasnt that long ago that we, or more to the point, our Youth System, was featured in 4-4-2 magazine, as an example of how to do it. It interviewed TP ans MP, one of our youth scouts and some parents and kids currently in the system. The article praised the work in the community and said how vital the youth set-up was for a club like us. I've slept on this now, and IMO - this goes ahead and its the final nail in the coffin for the club. I'm glass half empty on the reasoning its being proposed; and IMO the reported £200K will go nowhere near the 1st team as inestment, it'll surely be put towards more loss covering. This will weaken the clubs whole structure, while seeing the 1st team weakened further, not strengthened. Awful idea, and a terrible decision were it to go ahead. Im with prozac too. This happens and I walk....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
De_La_Vega Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 Agree that all options need exploring, but this is one that has to go away for mine. Our problem isn't that the youth team is not producing, it is that the integration of 18 year olds into the first team isn't working and we need to understand why. Isn't that part of GO's remit as assistant? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 Agree that all options need exploring, but this is one that has to go away for mine. Our problem isn't that the youth team is not producing, it is that the integration of 18 year olds into the first team isn't working and we need to understand why. Isn't that part of GO's remit as assistant? Who is GO? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laticsmarra Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 I don't think the problem is with the youth set up it is the transition from youth to first team.The lads on the fringes in their first year of a professional contract always seem to be in limbo. No one seems to take responsibility for them they don't play enough competitive football and we seem incapable of getting them quality long term loans.Indeed when they do get sent out on loan they seem to get sent back quickly. Without a proper structure and commitment to the lads as young professionals and less reliance on incoming loans to fill gaps then the work of the youth section is being wasted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oh Heck C-Beck Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Procession of loanees or give our kids a go? I know what I want, and it's not the loanees. The club's very existence was at threat under Stitch should we have gone down, his squad was 75% home grown, we had no choice to give them a go and they did us proud by keeping us in the division. I can see the argument, but it is yet again more down sizing of our club by Corney. This imo will kill the club once and for all, it's madness not to produce your own players. If this happens I walk away and for good…... No budget to bring players in, and seemingly no budget to produce our own. There's no hope is there? For me this hits the nail on the head Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_mighty_bosh Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 (edited) http://www.telegraph...-its-rules.html No choice from 2014. Youth players would be needed to cover first team injuries/suspensions as we wouldn't be able to bring any in on loan. Scrapping the youth system would mean once injuries/suspensions start to kick in, we'd have no cover at all. Hope the club think about this in their decision. I forgot about that. That first look no compensation for our youngsters and no loanees allowed would seem to leave us completely screwed, but the two together actually might benefit us. Youth players at top clubs have a great chance to progress at the moment because they can go out on loan with the security of their parent club, but with the new rules there wouldn't be much of a chance of them getting 1st team football...unless they sign permanently for a lower league club. Keeping the youth set up could allow us to take on some better youngsters who will get no chance of competitive football higher up, the question regarding our youth setup will be what age those players decide to leave the top club (i.e. before or after they are 18) and whether it's worth putting them in our youth team or reserve team. Of course those players could all just decide to sit in the Premier League reserves picking up a wage, from which no one would benefit. Edited January 14, 2013 by the_mighty_bosh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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