Macca Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 Just watched the LW interview with Barry Owen discussing the Youth Policy at the club. He's wanting the fans opinions regarding it. From the interview Barry has been tasked with finding savings at the club. Around £400k is spent each season with £200k coming from grants, so club spends around £200k each season. Wants to know if we should continue with a youth policy or use this money to increase they first-team budget and scrap the youth system. Talked as an example that the £300k we received for Tom Eaves would now only be £12k under the new rules if a similar player was sold now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forte_Baby Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 Just watched the LW interview with Barry Owen discussing the Youth Policy at the club. He's wanting the fans opinions regarding it. From the interview Barry has been tasked with finding savings at the club. Around £400k is spent each season with £200k coming from grants, so club spends around £200k each season. Wants to know if we should continue with a youth policy or use this money to increase they first-team budget and scrap the youth system. Talked as an example that the £300k we received for Tom Eaves would now only be £12k under the new rules if a similar player was sold now. Only way round it would be offer to them professional contracts at an earlier age if we feel a certain player has that potential to go further or generate a bigger fee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opinions4u Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 I hate to say this, but is there a case for scrapping it here? <invites furore> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusoe Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 Only way round it would be offer to them professional contracts at an earlier age if we feel a certain player has that potential to go further or generate a bigger fee. Players aren't allowed to sign professional contracts until they are 17. You would have to commit then to signing them on a long term deal, when you may have no idea if they're actually going to cut it or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusoe Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 This is an interesting topic. I'm undecided. On one hand, when you look at the youth players we've brought through in the last 15 years, how much has the club benefitted? It's not just a matter of which ones have been sold for decent money; which ones improved our team for a reasonable period, or saved us from having to sign a player from elsewhere? My guess - but it's only that, a guess - would be that we haven't done that well from youth players on that criteria. We've not sold many for decent money and the ones who've genuinely improved our team have been few and far between (Taylor, Eardley, probably a few others I'm forgetting). On the other hand, I hate the idea of football becoming even more about buying and selling and further cutting ties to the local community. I don't buy into this sneering at "mercenaries" but even so there's a thrill at seeing a promising home-grown player develop. I guess for me it's a small-scale version of not wanting to buy your way to success. Without an academy we're even further away from being "Oldham's" club. it's tough. The youth team doesn't seem to have been particularly successful and even the promising players from the past have, for the most part, faded into obscurity (I know there are some exceptions, but that's what they are - exceptions). But to get rid of it means giving up any pretence of doing more than buying success into the town. Sorry. A bit rambling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twisbrogan Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 There's a case for it given the change in finances that could be drawn but the prospect of unearthing and developing decent young talent is one of the more interesting aspects of following a club like ours, where match results aren't always the best. Like many, I do tend to feel a bit cold when the side is loaded with loan signings but would even current levels of support be maintained with possible relegation because that particular year's crop weren't up to it. Will be interesting to see the means as to how this 'debate' is to take place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macca Posted January 11, 2013 Author Share Posted January 11, 2013 I hate to say this, but is there a case for scrapping it here? <invites furore> There could be. I want there to be a youth system here, it's worked well for us in the past and it's great to see young players making the step up. Currently there's no youth players in the first-team side though. Tarkowski the only one who's made starts in recent months. With spending £200k and getting £200k on top of that and possibly receiving less in transfer fees could encourage the club to hold onto players such as Philliskirk who could then possibly benefit the first team here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macca Posted January 11, 2013 Author Share Posted January 11, 2013 Would we see this £200k put into the first-team? As we are losing more than this would it just fund the losses? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monty Burns Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 Might aswell just fold now without our youth set up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevie_J Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 Just watched the LW interview with Barry Owen discussing the Youth Policy at the club. He's wanting the fans opinions regarding it. From the interview Barry has been tasked with finding savings at the club. Around £400k is spent each season with £200k coming from grants, so club spends around £200k each season. Wants to know if we should continue with a youth policy or use this money to increase they first-team budget and scrap the youth system. Talked as an example that the £300k we received for Tom Eaves would now only be £12k under the new rules if a similar player was sold now. Why on Earth would he want the fans' opinions? Surely, if they're considering scrapping it, it should be taken after properly looking at the financials and working out whether we're better off with or without it. I think it'll be another nail in our coffin to ditch the youth set-up, personally, but that's without having sat down and studied the figures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opinions4u Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 How much does it cost to pick up a player on a Bosman? Signing on fee etc? How much does it cost to pick up a cast off from a richer club's youth system? How much a season could that be offset by our youth set up? Finally, I do wish it felt like Latics was being invested in. Not cost cut. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevie_J Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 Would we see this £200k put into the first-team? As we are losing more than this would it just fund the losses? £200k sounds a lot but it's 4k/week and, with no youth set up, we'd need a bigger squad. as we wouldn't be able to fall back on youth players when injuries and suspensions are an issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disjointed Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 Looking at it, the 4k a week seems a good shout for keeping it. Great to see us unearth a gem and say he is one of ours. And then sell him on for loads of dosh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lags Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 Listening to that the youth section is doomed. Decision made all ready. But remember, when it;s anounced we all decided it was for the best. Well here's one voice that's says keep. A football club such as Oldham must be community based and we must always endeavour to provide our own talent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opinions4u Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 Looking at it, the 4k a week seems a good shout for keeping it. Great to see us unearth a gem and say he is one of ours. And then sell him on for loads of dosh The argument against that is that you no longer attract loads of dosh for them. Apparently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusoe Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 (edited) Talked as an example that the £300k we received for Tom Eaves would now only be £12k under the new rules if a similar player was sold now. Think this statement from Owen may be a bit wide of the mark. Eaves signed a pro contract which meant we could play a bit harder on the fee. I think the smaller fee relates to youth compensation rules changing. They are, and not for the better, but I don't think it would've affected Eaves' fee. Edited January 11, 2013 by Crusoe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opinions4u Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 Listening to that the youth section is doomed. Decision made all ready. But remember, when it;s anounced we all decided it was for the best. Well here's one voice that's says keep. A football club such as Oldham must be community based and we must always endeavour to provide our own talent. My instinct is keep. Where have "we all decided" otherwise? But, as mentioned above, what are the cold hard numbers? I don't just mean the overall £200k that could be saved. I mean the knock on costs that businesses always forget about when they make people redundant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusoe Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 Ah, here we go. This is the future - fixed compensation rules: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elite_Player_Performance_Plan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancy lad Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 I wonder what Dario Gradi's opinion on this would be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafcmetty Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 We should cut the budget of the first team and try and live within our means. If that means going down, so be it. Much rather have a self sufficient club, with a youth academy giving hope for the future, than be relying on cast offs from other teams and always chasing the rainbow, close to going pop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudemedic Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 Club publically discusses scrapping youth set-up as Head of Youth (TP) and his assisstant (MP) take up first team roles shock. Seriously though I know Mellor, Winchester and Millar all had decent spells in other clubs youth systems before coming here, and I'm not sure about the rest. But does the club really need sides younger than say u-15/16? How many of our youth products were at the club at younger than that age? We picked up Hughes playing for the Bolton town team didn't we? Good kids younger than 15 might have developed more than the ones they were playing against and it's not hard for kids that age to be playing regularly enough that if they are good enough they can get spotted. I know it used to be the case that if you were on Oldham's books as a 11/12/13 year old you couldn't play for a local junior side as well. What does having a team at u11/12/13/14 do for us? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshOWTB Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 (edited) Is it basically that the new rules only benefit Premier League clubs and lower league teams are getting :censored:ed over? Seems to be the way. Seems that if we find the next Messi we will only get a very small amount, not point wasting £200k a year to get no benefit if all the decent players get taken by richer teams and we receive little-to-no compensation that probably doesn't cover the cost of training them (and all the others who don't make it). All in all we will lose our best youth prospects before they get to the first team so we won't even see any benefits from the youth programme anyway! The only players who will get to the first team are those who have slipped through the net of richer clubs and/or those who aren't good enough but get put into the first team anyway. £200k a year is a lot of money. How many youth players get to the first team each year, 2 or 3? Of which 1 or 2 turn out to be good. Spend that £200k on getting proven players instead or snapping up bargains from the lower league. What we really need here is someone who can get great deals - Dickov probably suits this! Edited January 11, 2013 by JoshOWTB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lags Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 (edited) My instinct is keep. Where have "we all decided" otherwise? But, as mentioned above, what are the cold hard numbers? I don't just mean the overall £200k that could be saved. I mean the knock on costs that businesses always forget about when they make people redundant. I meant thats what the club will say...cos the fans were involved in the decision making. When really we aint! Edited January 11, 2013 by Lags Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lags Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 Makes me laugh all this. You hear the FA harp on how we must change the way we coach our kids right from grass roots nippers to become a world force again. Yet put rules in place and not enough central funding to make the likes of OAFC scrap their set up. So much for coaching the kids! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 (edited) I wonder what Dario Gradi's opinion on this would be? Nov 2011 http://www.bbc.co.uk...otball/15675372 "The Crewe Alexandra board believes that youth development should still be a major investment for the club and intends to exploit any opportunities arising from such changes, despite the challenges it will face. "As a result, Dario Gradi will hand over first-team manager responsibilities to Steve Davis, and concentrate on the future development and direction of the academy." http://joshilanblogs...ying-dividends/ Since Dario Gradi took over in 1983, the club has raked in over £20million pounds through this youth policy I will leave you on a quote from the Crewe legend that is Dario Gradi, who says “If an Arab billionaire said ‘Come on Dario, here’s the money, take Crewe into the Championship’, I don’t think I’d be the man for the job. I wouldn’t get the same satisfaction that I get from coaching the kids.” Edited January 11, 2013 by BP1960 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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