A few Questions...

[ZiggaZaggaAthletic]

How much debt do Oldham Athletic have? Who is it owed to and why? Who owns boundary park and the land around it? Does Blitz and Gazal still own us, despite them stepping down as chairmen a few years ago? What other liabilities do Oldham Athletic have? What assets do Oldham Athletic have? Where did it all go wrong in terms of the decline from the premiership era? And Finally, on a scale of 1-10 how bad are we financially? Been trying to a little research for general interest on the topic but sadly, I cannot find answers.

[oafcprozac]

Bollocks to it....

Edited June 29, 2013 by oafcprozac

[chris_ktf]

we have much as debt as uncle Simon and Simon the landlord decide we have - until Simon the landlord decides he can get most of his money back no matter who offers to buy the club. The deal ''will not be right in the clubs best interests'

 

At least we all agreed Chris Moore was a :censored:, these sheisters have split the fanbase down the middle....too many still think that cutting budgets year on year they have our best interests at heart

Prozac. I agree with the vast majority of what you say. Particularly on the field. But what do expect corney to do? So what if he cuts his cloth? So what if he makes money? At the end of the day we have a club. If he leaves an the stand is built an we have had x amount seasons in league one. Is that great? not really. Can he claim to have moved us on? not really. but equally is it god awful? No it's not. All last season we had one best squads on paper. . . Yet he never invests? That doesn't make sense. Even this season he paid a small fee for clarke harris. We will have a decent squad come august more than able to compete. An with the right manager we might surprise a few, that's good enough for me. ( maybe i'm easily pleased) I don't take him at face value when he says he'll only sell to the right person. He'll sell to who offers the most. An Why not? He doesn't owe us anything. No I don't think he's a messiah. An i think the club have been shocking at publicity and PR down the years, which he must take some accountability for. At the end of the day he's a businessman looking after his interests. What do you realistically expect? Even when they first arrived they were never sugar daddy types. I think they've always been fairly prudent. Lastly we are where we are imo not through supposed budget cuts but because of two bad appointments in Penny an Dickov. The football for four years now has been somewhere between average an piss poor.

[oafcprozac]

If there's genuine interest and interested parties can take the club forward & it IS in the best interest of the club then holding out for unrealistic amounts will continue this death by a thousand cuts its time to admit they have failed and to give someone else a go and has been that time for the last couple of years. I'm no more grateful to what Corney and co have done than I was to David Brieley 15 years ago. The one season we had a go in 05/06 was paid for by a Massive hike in ST prices.

 

I'll be grateful for the stand if and when it is built but that apart their tenure has been a failure.

pWe're no nearer moving forward than we were in 2003/04 :censored:ty similar sized clubs have not only surpassed us but blown us out of the water in that time. We have stood still and slowly moved backwards over the last 5 years.....

 

I'll support the lads on the field 100% but off it we need new impetus or no matter what pre season optimism exists our team of kids is going to struggle. And before Yeovil is countered they had relevant experience all over the field and throughout the squad when it was required....

[oafcprozac]

I'll apologise in advance had a bit of liquid refreshment had a very packed couple of weeks so maybe just sounding off and emotions coming to the fore but 100% stand by my rants. I don't want a sugar daddy I want someone to run us professionally, staff the club from top to bottom adequately allow coaching staff to be brought in - not expect people to do two and three jobs on top of their own job & certainly not allow your best players to leave every year for :censored: all through lack of foresight.

[archiecat]

I am not going to constantly criticise a guy who keeps the club afloat, whether he is doing it off his own back or with financial assistance from his 2 mates. give the bloke a break, if it were not for him there would be no Oldham Athletic as we know it. I don't give two monkeys about how much revenue we have taken for cup runs or tv appearences, there is nobody else showing any interest in taking on the white elephant except for some bull:censored:ting scouse gangster. Be thankful for small mercies, we will kick off the 2013/ 2014 season shortly with an enthusiastic manager and hopefully, a team that will give 100%. That is enough for me thank you and good night

[opinions4u]

How much debt do Oldham Athletic have?

£6m.

 

Who is it owed to and why?

TTA. Primarily Blitz. Because they put money in to cover losses.

 

Who owns boundary park and the land around it?

Companies owned by TTA.

 

Does Blitz and Gazal still own us, despite them stepping down as chairmen a few years ago?

No. Corney owns 97%. The Trust owns 3%.

 

What other liabilities do Oldham Athletic have? What assets do Oldham Athletic have?

Debt. Playing staff. Customer goodwill.

 

Where did it all go wrong in terms of the decline from the premiership era?

Failure to invest.

 

And Finally, on a scale of 1-10 how bad are we financially? Been trying to a little research for general interest on the topic but sadly, I cannot find answers.

Most football clubs have debt. Ours seems to be owed to people who don't want to destroy us by calling it in. Although that could change if they ever wake up one day with a mood. Equally, most football clubs make a loss. We made a profit for 2011, albeit £8k. 2012 included the Anfield game. 2013 FA Cup giant killing. So I'd expect both years to show profit that is used primarily to reduce debt. How the new stand is accounted for could cane that.

 

 

Disclaimer: information obtained from excessive reading of owtb so is open to believing what others have posted. But I believe it stacks up.

 

Personal view: I understand why TTA stopped being involved. I'm grateful for the money they put in and for not calling the debt in. I can see why Corney, presumably a man of lesser means, is effectively trying to break even each year. But that approach will, I fear, lead to further decline unless we get lucky with a manager. I want a new owner who will invest in the club. TTA want their debt back. A new owner with the debt still on the accounts is unrealistic because we could go in to administration and TTA would lose their £6m. So any sale has to satisfy TTA unless Corney chooses to shaft his mates. I believe they are expecting too much of their £6m back and this is the major stumbling block. A new owner needs to ensure the club starts its new life debt free as far as TTA are concerned and get the new stand up. That's going to cost several million. Will the people of Oldham repay that by attending matches in bigger numbers?

[jimsleftfoot]

How much debt do Oldham Athletic have? Who is it owed to and why? Who owns boundary park and the land around it? Does Blitz and Gazal still own us, despite them stepping down as chairmen a few years ago? What other liabilities do Oldham Athletic have? What assets do Oldham Athletic have? Where did it all go wrong in terms of the decline from the premiership era? And Finally, on a scale of 1-10 how bad are we financially? Been trying to a little research for general interest on the topic but sadly, I cannot find answers.

Zero debt as per last accounts however £5.4m of shareholder funds have been put into club to keep it solvent over last 10 years to keep it from going out of business.

 

Well it is a liability but it is not a loan.

 

Brassbank Ltd bought the land from the council back in 2004.

Edited June 30, 2013 by jimsleftfoot

[Midsblue]

Zero debt as per last accounts however £5.4m of shareholder funds have been put into club to keep it solvent over last 10 years to keep it from going out of business.

Well it is a liability but it is not a loan.

Brassbank Ltd bought the land from the council back in 2004.

So are you saying that if the like of Koukash wanted to buy then they had to pay 5.4m to Blitz AND buy the land back from them too?

 

Assuming land is similar - 10m to buy the club?

[BristolOwl]

Excellent questions ZiggaZagga. the only certainty is that our shy (when it comes to disclosing financial information) owner (owners?) will not answer them. There has been a lack of transparency since the 3As arrived and it won't change until Corney leaves. The role of the trust is a joke, more a propaganda arm of Corney than an intelligent, independent force representing the fans. I can't see how even the most consevative Oldham-based supporter can be so blinkered as to see Corney as a messiah, as the 3As have created publicly-unknown but likely-considerable debts during the ten years that they've run the club back into the ground. Much of the debt is a result of their secretive, arrogant management style, which treats fans with contempt and has caused a shambles. We do not live in an oligarchy or totalitarian regime.The farrago of the bid for land in Failsworth, which included an element of charitable trust land, typifies the approach. It cost, according to rumour, several million pounds, when it seems even a novice solicitor would quickly have told the club not to proceed with such a hopeless venture. (If the 3As have in fact put this cost as a debt against the club then it needs to be looked when details emerge, probably after a new regime arrives - although it will be "debts" such as this, if they exist, which may deters buyers.) Other decisions, such as the "loan" to QPR, could have been very detrimental to our club.

 

I don't think that Corney ever will have the ability or the means to run a professional football club, unless supported by talented, knowledgeable colleagues, but that is just my view. However, in any event some clarity about our financial position might put him in a better light. Much rumour will be found to be wrong. The horror is that we just don't know and even in de-regulated Britain, we should know. I have been a fan for sixty years and don't begrudge a penny spent on that support. What disgusts me is that we are treated in a contemptuous way which would not be acceptable even if we had just won the Premier league title. Why is our Chairman so reluctant to disclose where we stand?

[Diego_Sideburns]

When TTA took over the Club, Danny Gazal said: "The attendances are key. We need to get to a position where 8 to 9,000 people are coming on a regular basis."

After making economies, the viability figure was revised downwards, but has not been reached, other than for the odd glamour game.

 

The Salary Cost Management Protocol in 2013-14 has cut the permitted spending from 65% to 60% of turnover, so, regardless of who owns the Club, the budget for spending on players will be the same and, if exceeded, could see Latics face a transfer embargo, as Swindon did.

A new owner needs to ensure the club starts its new life debt free as far as TTA are concerned and get the new stand up. That's going to cost several million. Will the people of Oldham repay that by attending matches in bigger numbers?

I don't believe they will, but the future viability of the Club rests with the people who will use the non-football facilities in the proposed new North Stand.

[Midsblue]

Why is our Chairman so reluctant to disclose where we stand?

Didn't Corney offer - and that offer still stands I believe - the chance for fans to come and see the books?

 

I too would be interested to understand what the financial situation is currently as a very high level P&L position for each season and what the debts are should someone wish to buy the club.

 

As said, if 4 million is the current debt and that's just what we owe Blitz then how much did Blitz buy the land for and what is the current land / club value or asking price?

 

Is it as simple as example below -

 

4 million (owed to Blitz) + 4 million (current land value) = 8 million (asking price for club)

 

Or does the 4 million include the land purchase so its just 4 million i.e. Blitz is paid 4 million and the new owner gets everything

[Diego_Sideburns]

Didn't Corney offer - and that offer still stands I believe - the chance for fans to come and see the books?

 

I too would be interested to understand what the financial situation is currently as a very high level P&L position for each season and what the debts are should someone wish to buy the club.

 

As said, if 4 million is the current debt and that's just what we owe Blitz then how much did Blitz buy the land for and what is the current land / club value or asking price?

 

Is it as simple as example below -

 

4 million (owed to Blitz) + 4 million (current land value) = 8 million (asking price for club)

 

Or does the 4 million include the land purchase so its just 4 million i.e. Blitz is paid 4 million and the new owner gets everything

 

I've quoted the following time and time and time again, but there's no harm in reminding anyone who has forgotten

 

The OS report on the second Radclyffe School Forum held in December 2009, quotes SC as saying:

 

…a financial genius could not get out of this level.

 

£5m on land

 

£6m on Club and interest

 

£3m on Lancaster Club land

 

Assume a new stadium costs £15m

 

Making around £30m – the latest offer for Boundary Park was a value of £18m two years ago [2007] about half that now at £9m.

 

I don’t ever see us taking money out of the Club. The Club doesn’t have a burden of debt, it’s all personal debt and that’s a pretty good safeguard to have.

 

Without making this appear a sob story – we are never going to get our money back. It’s bizarre how anyone can come up with figures to suggest we can make money.

 

The only way to break even would be to sell Boundary Park and go back to America. We stay because we like it.

 

If we wanted to we could walk away, sell Boundary Park and there’s nothing could be done to stop us, and if we’re supposedly trying to make money from this why would we not do that now and walk away?

 

 

 

 

[real]

The one season we had a go in 05/06 was paid for by a Massive hike in ST prices.

 

"massive hike" - erm about 10% wasn't it?

...:censored:ty similar sized clubs have not only surpassed us but blown us out of the water in that time. We have stood still and slowly moved backwards over the last 5 years.....

 

 

":censored:ty similar sized clubs" - Stockport, Luton, Scunny, Portsmouth, Plymouth?

 

I'll give you Swansea, Hull, Cardiff, Doncaster, Blackpool - other than those, who else has moved upwards from Lg1 - and of these, which have done it without £millions in investment? And have these 5 "blown us out of the water" really?

You talk about Simon & Simon getting a profit - what figures are you using to get that outcome?

People say they should sell at a reasonable price and are holding out - but what price are they holding out for? Do you know? Do you know what they'd sell for?

 

The club is worth pretty much £0 - no saleable assets, and doesn't make a profit; £5m debt is therefore irrelevant in the pricing

The land is worth? Well they paid £6m, and it's probably worth about the same.

 

Spent £11m, holding assets of £6m.

 

Simple maths £11m - £6m = -£5m

Edited July 1, 2013 by real

[Simoncorneyisgod]

My name gives it away I think that if it wasn't for corney we wouldn't have a club so whilst on the face of it we have stood still at best since he arrived some including me coud say we are better off than it coud have been!

 

I will happily pay my £10 to change my name to Koucashisgod.......footballs a fickle game after all :-)

 

Still very positive about the season ahead....3 good signings and I reckon we could reach the play offs however my rider for this is I have always been a glass half full kinda guy

[jimsleftfoot]

So are you saying that if the like of Koukash wanted to buy then they had to pay 5.4m to Blitz AND buy the land back from them too?

 

Assuming land is similar - 10m to buy the club?

The money may have ultimately come from Blitz but he isn't a shareholder so technically speaking the funds are from SC. The 'shareholders funds' normally represent the money shareholders invest at start up, if the business is successful, they would get the money back. With Latics, the money has been used to keep the club solvent.

 

Would a new owner have to pay this liability? I would hope not. SC has no means to call this liability in it as it would just mean the club would go out of business and paying the debt would hold no value to any new buyer who would likely have to invest his own funds in the short to medium term to keep the club running.

[oafcprozac]

Where's the evidence that Corney puts money out of his own pocket in to keep the club running? He doesn't as far as I am aware, the gaps are plugged with loans wherever it can be sourced from

 

You talk about Simon & Simon getting a profit - what figures are you using to get that outcome?

People say they should sell at a reasonable price and are holding out - but what price are they holding out for? Do you know? Do you know what they'd sell for?

 

The club is worth pretty much £0 - no saleable assets, and doesn't make a profit; £5m debt is therefore irrelevant in the pricing

The land is worth? Well they paid £6m, and it's probably worth about the same.

 

Spent £11m, holding assets of £6m.

 

Simple maths £11m - £6m = -£5m

I haven't mentioned a profit, i've mentioned what Blitz deems to be a fair price. Corney won't get a profit, it's mostly not his money. Blitz holds all the aces in the deck, I honestly don't think it's about profit any longer, simply getting back what he deems to be the value of the remaining land + whatever he stuck in as director loans. The other sticking point I think will be BP itself, rather than sell BP to an interested party I think he'll (Blitz) will want a decent rent for its usage year on year, which beggars the question. Once the stand is built and functions, conferences etc… are held within the facilities, The Gym? Takeaway, whatever is put into the units at the back and within - who will they pay their rent to? Oafc or Simon Blitz? We're automatically assuming it will be the club that benefits.

 

The problem is any new investor is not interested in how much is owed in past director's loans, he/she will want to buy the club at market value. Corney grew on me at times last season and speaking to him I occasionally felt sorry for him, before he put his foot back in his mouth by attempting to bollock a group of fans there not to speak to him but the new manager.

 

I'm in no doubt we'll have a team out there come August 3rd, the team doesn't worry me - it's the coaching cuts. We've lost our Assistant Manager (no loss, bit nontheless LJ needs an Assistant), Fitness Guru, Goalkeeping Coach & Chief Scout. We replaced the Reserve Team manager but we are still short at least 2 or 3 members of coaching staff. GK coach can be Part Time and isn't a massive issue but this does need addressing.

 

One more issue i'd like to highlight was Corney being quoted that our budget is around a million quid, fair enough and that's based on our crowds of 3,000. except our average crowd was around 4,100 last season and judging by our ST sales it will be at least that again next season. So by Corney's rule of thumb the budget should be around £1.3m a big difference. It may well be £1.3m but yet again we have the club down-sizing itself.

 

I know Corney has to beg from Peter to pay Paul since Blitz bailed, but we have to get the infrastructure of the club right - the website, the programme, have a shop that opens during proper Business Hours etc….

 

I will be forever grateful for Corney and co saving the club in 2003, but realistically taking the stand out of the equation the club is worse off and probably where we were under Brierley in the late 90s, sooner or later under the present stewardship the :censored: will hit the fan, we are only one late HMRC payment from trouble and having to scrape around for funds continually mid-season is a recipe for disaster. I don't want a sugar daddy, I want the club restructured from top to bottom, I want the club to have a winning mentality, I want it to get the fans onside, let the fans know that are being listened to. Conveying a message of mediocrity and simple survival is no longer enough. The town sees the club as a failure, that is plodding along and Corney's regular rants to the press do little to change this.

 

New impetus is needed in the boardroom & for me new impetus is needed in the form of a new fans group to bring the fans back together.

 

No Simon Corney is not the big bad wolf, but his links to Simon Blitz through their business interests is now becoming a conflict of interest, Simon states that he will sell. 'only in the best interests of Oldham Athletic and i'm sure he would be relieved to get rid, sooner rather than later but the land and ground are not owned by the club but by Corney, Blitz and Gazal which further complicates matters and for me means that any sale simply will not happen, the club will be forced to plod along until Blitz fully develops the land and recoups some or most of his initial outlay or someone does indeed stump up to buy the lot. Which I cannot see happening, unless he decides to sell to a Supermarket or similar….

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As for similar sized clubs that have blown us out of the water (and yes there's a few gone the other way), Blackpool, Yeovil Town, Doncaster Rovers, Scunthorpe (on the way back down), Colchester (ladder pulled up) etc etc

Edited June 30, 2013 by oafcprozac

[Diego_Sideburns]

...Once the stand is built and functions, conferences etc… are held within the facilities, The Gym? Takeaway, whatever is put into the units at the back and within - who will they pay their rent to? Oafc or Simon Blitz? We're automatically assuming it will be the club that benefits....

 

The Chron reported earlier this month, when SC was talking about the budget:

 

“What we can try to do is increase our revenue — and that’s what the new stand is about.”

 

Though Corney won’t pin himself down to a start date for the new stand, he did reveal that £250,000 has been spent in the past year on preparatory work.

 

“We don’t have that kind of money to spend, unless we fully believe it will happen,” he confirmed.

 

This increase in revenue from the proposed stand, to supplement the budget in future, is what leads us to assume the Club will benefit.

[jimsleftfoot]

Where's the evidence that Corney puts money out of his own pocket in to keep the club running? He doesn't as far as I am aware, the gaps are plugged with loans wherever it can be sourced from

 

 

 

The abbreviated accounts of OAFC 2004Ltd. These funds have been built up prior to Blitz leaving so it probably wasn't Corney paying the money out of his own pocket. But when Blitz left the club, the funds remained as shareholders funds, not a loan, so presumably the funds have transferred to SC who is still a Director though who may be acting a proxy for Blitz. Edited June 30, 2013 by jimsleftfoot

[chris_ktf]

Lots to agree with there Prozac. We aren't an never have been professionally run. Which really pisses me off. In the background the blitz issue is massive. How much does he really want??? Making a few quid when you first come in - An strangling the life out of a club to a make your debt back are two very different things. It all feels very murky with who owns what and so forth.

 

But. You mention the budget when he said 3000 fans = 1 Mill. When really it's closer to 1.3 mill when you consider we have 4000 fans . . .

 

Mate what do expect him to say? He wants every agent an player thinking we have no money. He's being cute. Why have we got money in the pot for a fee for Clarke Harris? Is korey on :censored: money?

 

I will keep saying this until I'm blue in the face. Corney has backed every manager he's had.

 

LJ will bring a number two in, an gk coach. Muzza does the stiffs. That's enough. He still needs half side but as he said himself he wants to wait.

 

You could argue his manager appointments are on the cheap. Was hill on massive money at dale first time round or the Exeter manger Steve ? Or Brian laws at scunny first time round you could go on an on. Corney has made two bad decisions with penny an Dickov.

 

But I'm absolutely convinced that if you could get a manger who could get the absolute best out of his squad, with the way corney backs managers we could do very well . Trouble is he's never had it. Including Sheridan. Who's player turnover defied belief.

 

In summary off the field he leaves a lot to be desired. On the field I just can't see what more he could of done?

[Stevie_J]

Simple maths £11m - £6m = -£5m

Yep. Simple.

[Matt]

Yep. Simple.

[petelatics]

Without Corney we wouldn't have a club. With more supporters we could have a thriving club. Looking back over years when our team was performing better than recently, gates were still poor. I don't see our armchair fans changing their habit. Look at the level of support for our Rugby League team as well and compare this to other similar towns. Basically our people aren't bothered, unless it's a big cup game. I'm amazed anyone would want to pour money into a club like ours, so I'm glad when they do.

[singe]

Didn't Corney offer - and that offer still stands I believe - the chance for fans to come and see the books?

 

I too would be interested to understand what the financial situation is currently as a very high level P&L position for each season and what the debts are should someone wish to buy the club.

 

As said, if 4 million is the current debt and that's just what we owe Blitz then how much did Blitz buy the land for and what is the current land / club value or asking price?

 

Is it as simple as example below -

 

4 million (owed to Blitz) + 4 million (current land value) = 8 million (asking price for club)

 

Or does the 4 million include the land purchase so its just 4 million i.e. Blitz is paid 4 million and the new owner gets everything

Here is the original thread.

http://www.owtb.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=28647&hl=accounts

[singe]

How much debt do Oldham Athletic have? Who is it owed to and why? Who owns boundary park and the land around it? Does Blitz and Gazal still own us, despite them stepping down as chairmen a few years ago? What other liabilities do Oldham Athletic have? What assets do Oldham Athletic have? Where did it all go wrong in terms of the decline from the premiership era? And Finally, on a scale of 1-10 how bad are we financially? Been trying to a little research for general interest on the topic but sadly, I cannot find answers.

http://www.owtb.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=28647&hl=accounts