Sorry for another new thread

[LaticsPete]

I remain optimistic. However it relates to staying up. A different optimism to that which I had after our first game at Stevenage. Then it was about a top half or better finish. Yes it was "only" Stevenage but the performance and style we showed that day was so encouraging.

 

So what's happened? That game saw Dayton and Montano play like proper wingers, using the flanks, getting the ball in. We know what happened to Montano - and his flair and pace haven't been replaced. Dayton seems to have lost confidence and isn't used as a winger anyway. Schmeltz and Petrasso , the former inconsistent, were also wingers and now we have just Worrall.

Point 1: goals are scored from the ball coming in from the flanks- we play very narrowly and that's partly personnel and partly tactics

 

At Stevenage both Rooney and McDonald looked sharp. They got the ball fed to them early, often from the wings. JCH came on as sub and looked full of power. He still does and his 15 mins yesterday showed what he's capable of if he listens and develops. But we don't provide many chances. Surely our failure up front is not so much missing gilt edged chances match after match, but not creating them? Rooney bags goals elsewhere. He is a scorer. Charlie Mac - never going to be a golden boot winner but his eye for scoring early on showed that he can do if given the ammunition. Reinforces my Point 1 but leads on to

 

Point 2: why does everything have to be played through Korey Smith? I rate him but his lack of desire to play a longer pass than 15 yards, or switch direction from flank to flank, really hampers us as an attacking force. He and Wes are both good players but, as others have said, they aren't the powerful driving midfielder that drives a team from its own half to the opposition box. Nor are they the 40 yard ball players that stretches opposition by changing direction of play .

 

Point 3: we have lost two good full backs. Mills and Lanzoni . The latter is warming his bum on the Yeovil bench. He had power, strength, desire and skill. Brown is doing ok I believe, but we miss the Italian. And he could play CB. I think it was a mistake not to push the boat out to meet the offer that Yeovil made.

Left back is a problem. Grounds is better at CB and for me Mellor is not up to that role. I made the point after he was targeted as a the weak link atShrewsbury, and I'll repeat it. He plays on his heels and is slow to turn . Up against a nippy winger and he is shown up. Still not sure where he can shine...but referring to Stevenage again - LJ played him at CB. What happened to that?

 

I do believe that we have enough in the team to stay up. But I expected more. I still have confidence in LJ but his acquisitions this summer would for me, lead to a more assertive, fast breaking team. Putting oppositions under pressure without 15 passes leading from the centre line to their box and then back a bit.

You showed you wanted it at the beginning of the season LJ. Do it again.

[yarddog73]

agree with most of this would just like to add that when we play so narrow and deep it makes it so easy for teams to play against especially when physically we dont compare, PNE had charlie and philly in their pockets and we offered no threat whatsoever, tactically as the season has progressed we have looked very naive and thats the most worrying aspect for me.

[ShakerT]

Good point hope LJ reads this, Lee has lost his way IMO he needs to get back to what he set out to do in August. The team we have now is a poor reflection of what we had at the start of the season and our last few home performances have simply not been good enough.

[dave_ragg1984]

The reason it has to always go through Smith is that more often than not he is the only one who wants the ball.

[petelatics]

Goals don't have to come through wingers - see Barcelona and most of the Premiership sides. Good passing, plenty of movement and someone who can find the net. A will to win seems to have drained away from our players - you see it in dribs and drabs but Preston gave us a good lesson.

[BP1960]

Good point hope LJ reads this, Lee has lost his way IMO he needs to get back to what he set out to do in August. The team we have now is a poor reflection of what we had at the start of the season and our last few home performances have simply not been good enough.

 

He shouldn't have to read Pete's good points they are so obvious, LJ said he brought Tommy Wright in as at times he couldn't see the woods for the trees, it's seems Tommy Wright can't either has nothing has changed tactically.

Forget two holding midfielders, we are conceding goals anyway, Wesolowski is useful away from home but I would play Harkins in central midfield at home and bring in a winger on loan who can actually cross a ball.

I would also try Winchester at left back, he's quite comfortable using his left foot and would offer a good option on the overlap.

[BP1960]

Goals don't have to come through wingers - see Barcelona and most of the Premiership sides. Good passing, plenty of movement and someone who can find the net. A will to win seems to have drained away from our players - you see it in dribs and drabs but Preston gave us a good lesson.

 

But they have Danny Alves, who spends most of his time flying down the flank.

[petelatics]

The formation we seem to play at the moment is 4-4-2. On Saturday, in the first half, Brown kept trying to make runs forward but his path was blocked by our winger. I would suggest moving the wingers ten yards in when we are attacking to allow the full backs to get forward. We'd also have more bodies to get into the box - a recurring problem with Latics - crosses come in only two attacking the ball. Wouldn't play Harkins central midfield. If you remember in the first half against Peterborough he was one of the two central midfield players and we got steamrollered - he's talented but he's not as fit as he should be and he won't put the work in. An idea might be to play him behind a striker that LJ is about to bring in!

[BP1960]

The formation we seem to play at the moment is 4-4-2. On Saturday, in the first half, Brown kept trying to make runs forward but his path was blocked by our winger. I would suggest moving the wingers ten yards in when we are attacking to allow the full backs to get forward. We'd also have more bodies to get into the box - a recurring problem with Latics - crosses come in only two attacking the ball. Wouldn't play Harkins central midfield. If you remember in the first half against Peterborough he was one of the two central midfield players and we got steamrollered - he's talented but he's not as fit as he should be and he won't put the work in. An idea might be to play him behind a striker that LJ is about to bring in!

 

He could be slotted in behind a striker, but you are still left with the two defensive midfielders problem.

I would give him another go in central midfield and treat Peterborough as a one off.

[al_bro]

When Preston scored their first they had 3 players in the box. From the same kind of situation in the second half with Worral with the ball on the wing we had 1 on the edge of the box. Midfield players don't get forward, and strikers are non existent.

[IceStationLatic]

It is, worryingly, drifting into Dickov-esque territory.

I am very worried. Last season we had Baxter and Smith to keep us up. Mellor came into midfield and was a revelation too with his passing.

Where are our goals coming from - JCH suspension could be a devastating blow.

The players are losing confidence and perhaps losing faith - this would explain the lack of 90-minute displays. But at least the HT team-talk from LJ continues to spark positive results.

Harkins is our only hope - if he gets injured or suspended, we may be done for.

For me, we need a spark - a change

With Worrall out and presumably Wilson back, I would go for the following:

 

Oxley

Brown/Winchester, Wilson, Lockwood, Grounds

Smith, Wes, Mellor/Winchester

Harkins

Philliskirk, Turner/MacDonald

 

There'd be the understanding there from Smith and Mellor - who could both slot in at full-back if, god forbid, we achieve an overlap.

 

Mellor wants to be a midfielder, he can pass it - give him a chance to bring the ball forward and pick a pass. Likewise with Winchester.

 

The front three can be quite fluid - Harkins and Turner, if starting, would be outlets for when we go direct; Harkins and Philliskirk have the technical ability if we go with the ball on the ground.

 

The formation doesn't offer a lot of width - if the opposition tried to exploit this, Harkins and Philliskirk can also drop into their familiar wide berths to help keep the opposition full-backs in check...

[slystallone]

 

He could be slotted in behind a striker, but you are still left with the two defensive midfielders problem.

I would give him another go in central midfield and treat Peterborough as a one off.

Harkins has been tried as a central midfielder at most; if not all, of his former clubs. He has also been moved to either out wide or behind the striker pretty sharpish too.

 

The Peterborough game wasn't a one off; it will be a sign of things to come if Harkins plays in the centre of midfield.

 

I'm all for creativity; heck - watching Harkins has been great. But shoe-horning him into an area where it would a feckin liability isnt the way to go.

 

FWIW; i would be looking to play a 4-3-1-2: with Wes, Winchester and Smith as the 3, Harkins as the '1' in the hole and a front 2 of JCH with Philliskirk; or MacDonald if Philly isn't available.

 

I'd also get the full-backs; limited as they both are, to actually push on too. If they go forward, one of either Wes or Korey can easily drop in to cover.

Winchester as the central 1 of the 3 has the freer role of the midfielders; to try to be more box to box; and drive it forward. Show him his goal vs Swindon this season; and dig out his one under Dickov vs MK Dons and tell him that is what he's looking to reproduce - he has it in him; i'm sure of that.

 

Get Lockwood out of the side too; so that we have the 2 most comfortable on the ball players we possibly can do at CB - at the moment with Kusunga's injury, those being Grounds & Wilson.

 

Tell the side to play with a tempo that actually reaches above laboured; press higher up the pitch, and cut out the aimless high balls up to the front. Instead, pass & move at a high tempo; work the space; get bodies into the positions where we can hurt the opposition (that should happen with the front 2, Harkins in a free role and Winchester pushing on) and take the shots on when they present themselves.

 

See - easy this management lark!

[yarddog73]

the reality is we dont have the players, we have nearly used up our quota of loans ive watched the last couple of reserve games and there is only one player turner who would get anywhere near a starting 11and he will struggle to make an impact, dunfield kissock must of been brought in on peanuts and we got what we paid for so effectively we are fecked the team is poor compared to the start of the season, any asset has been stripped and replaced with sub standard alternatives its sad but true lets pray somehow that we can do enough to finish out of the bottom 4.

[lookersstandandy]

He and Wes are both good players but, as others have said, they aren't the powerful driving midfielder that drives a team from its own half to the opposition box. Nor are they the 40 yard ball players that stretches opposition by changing direction of play .

Neither were Mike Milligan or Nick Henry. They snapped at heals, won the ball back and played it simple to the wings. The next bit is where I agree with you, we don't have Rick Holden & Neil Adams, with Andy Barlow, Neil Pointon, Gunnar Halle or Denis Irwin overlapping, to beat a man and find, Ritchie, Marshall, Palmer, Sharp or Olney in the middle!

 

Losing Baxter, Montano, Tarky, Lanzoni & Mills has certainly weakened us, but how much of this is because of decisions made by LJ? Arguably his hands were tied on all of them. The reality of life with under 4,000 home fans per game sadly.

[oafcmetty]

5-3-2 - we don't have any wingers, so let's use wingbacks. Mellor and Brown aren't the best defensively, but both can run with the ball - Grounds LCB, Kusunga RCB, both offering cover when they do.

 

Harkins as AMC ahead of Smith and Wes.

[BP1960]

Harkins has been tried as a central midfielder at most; if not all, of his former clubs. He has also been moved to either out wide or behind the striker pretty sharpish too.

 

The Peterborough game wasn't a one off; it will be a sign of things to come if Harkins plays in the centre of midfield.

 

I'm all for creativity; heck - watching Harkins has been great. But shoe-horning him into an area where it would a feckin liability isnt the way to go.

 

FWIW; i would be looking to play a 4-3-1-2: with Wes, Winchester and Smith as the 3, Harkins as the '1' in the hole and a front 2 of JCH with Philliskirk; or MacDonald if Philly isn't available.

 

I'd also get the full-backs; limited as they both are, to actually push on too. If they go forward, one of either Wes or Korey can easily drop in to cover.

Winchester as the central 1 of the 3 has the freer role of the midfielders; to try to be more box to box; and drive it forward. Show him his goal vs Swindon this season; and dig out his one under Dickov vs MK Dons and tell him that is what he's looking to reproduce - he has it in him; i'm sure of that.

 

Get Lockwood out of the side too; so that we have the 2 most comfortable on the ball players we possibly can do at CB - at the moment with Kusunga's injury, those being Grounds & Wilson.

 

Tell the side to play with a tempo that actually reaches above laboured; press higher up the pitch, and cut out the aimless high balls up to the front. Instead, pass & move at a high tempo; work the space; get bodies into the positions where we can hurt the opposition (that should happen with the front 2, Harkins in a free role and Winchester pushing on) and take the shots on when they present themselves.

 

See - easy this management lark!

 

LJ surely must have said the same about early tempo and playing higher up the pitch, but do the players listen? if they don't bring move them out and in players next season (hopefully in this division) who will follow instructions, the team, despite Tommy Wright's addition (assumedly to sort these things out) still look tactically clueless.

Edited March 10, 2014 by BP1960

[rudemedic]

5-3-2 - we don't have any wingers, so let's use wingbacks. Mellor and Brown aren't the best defensively, but both can run with the ball - Grounds LCB, Kusunga RCB, both offering cover when they do.

 

Harkins as AMC ahead of Smith and Wes.

If we are using wing backs I'd play Winchester and Worrall ahead of Brown, and this is coming from someone who thinks Brown has been one of our more consistent players of late and thinks he is perfectly adequate for this level and is improving.