HarryBosch Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Rightly or wrongly, next season he'll be measured against our final league position this season. Some managers in this day and age would chuck the kids in now to ensure their remit next time would be to improve on 19th place but results on Saturday could see us 12th. I've no doubt this will also be used as a "minimum standard" for the players next season. A 10 game unbeaten run at the end of the season could also help to sell the prospect of a promotion push to new recruits and those we want to sign up or re sign will be far more likely to do so having been in the happy environment a team getting results brings. Whether you like or agree with his tactics, methods, style of play, management style or not, he's not :censored:ing about is he? All managers are self interested in one way or another but Johnson's self interest seems to be to do a proper, honest job and to get us up the table and/or up a league as quickly as possible then move onto bigger and better things. Which is fine by me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjk2008 Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 (edited) Barring a monumental scoreline, we cant finish 12th now. Edited April 30, 2014 by sjk2008 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankly Mr Shankly Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 I've definitely been impressed with the way he's changed his tactics. A LJ who'd have persisted with the fancy stuff would have seen us relegated a month or two ago. He's made us tremendously hard to beat and whilst it's not been eye candy, it's given us a base. I like stability and providing Corney doesn't further decimate the playing budget would hope to see this platform continue onto next season. I mean, there's employing rigid hard-to-beat tactics the Penney way and there's the LJ way. I much prefer the LJ way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusoe Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 He's still got a lot to learn (and I'm sure would be the first to admit that) but I like that he has a Plan B. When the pretty football didn't work, he was willing and able to win ugly (or at least less prettily). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pukka Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 I've definitely been impressed with the way he's changed his tactics. A LJ who'd have persisted with the fancy stuff would have seen us relegated a month or two ago. He's made us tremendously hard to beat and whilst it's not been eye candy, it's given us a base. I like stability and providing Corney doesn't further decimate the playing budget would hope to see this platform continue onto next season. I mean, there's employing rigid hard-to-beat tactics the Penney way and there's the LJ way. I much prefer the LJ way. This. We dont need to decimate this squad and rebuild as has happened every season in recent memory. It needs players adding to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midsblue Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Last season we finished 19th on 51 points. We're currently 15th and on 55 points and can't drop down the league regardless of the scoreline on Saturday. Should we win then we could rise to 13th with 58 points. That's progress, probably less than we expected, but it's still progress in LJ's first full season. Under Dickov we ended up 17th, 16th then 19th (or lower if he stayed) so LJ has already bettered him on a supposedly lower budget. Next season will be the acid test if allowed to keep who he wants, retain re-contracted players if successful and strengthen where he can. Top half? Top 10? Play-Offs? Promotion? Unsure what SC's expectations are but I'm sure LJ will be setting himself Top 10 at very least to continue the progression. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slystallone Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 This. We dont need to decimate this squad and rebuild as has happened every season in recent memory. It needs players adding to it. I've been thinking on this - I posted on a thread a bit ago that I'd only be looking to extend Wilson, Chubs, Wes and to obviously go with the contracted lot of Smith, JCH, Philliskirk & Turner... and if we must; Dayton. My thought process being it's only worth continuity if it's worthwhile. But - as the games have rolled on during this unbeaten run, I'm now coming round to think it's worth trying to extending most of the current lot's deals - the likes of Lockwood, Brown et all. A side based around Chubs, Brown, Wilson, Lockwood, Smith, Wes, JCH, Philliskirk, Dayton is the starting point for a decent league one side. I'm not sure on Harkins or Worrell. It could be a case of "better the devil you know" with them in that we've had them for 5 months and both fans and management will know all about them, but whilst they've both shown flashes, in particular Sir Gary, have they really added over & above what else already had, or could get out in the market? I'm actually not sure. Harkins has entertained on occasion with some flashy bits of skill, and has weighed in with a couple of important goals, but playing wide on the left, over a season, would he give you that much more than a 'standard' league one wide player we could get with our budget? Taking apart all the flashy bits, I don't think he would do. Worrell, whilst he tries hard and has very admirable work rate, has he done anything over & above what; given the same run in the side, Winchester or Dayton could have done? Again, I don't think he has done. I now think a new LB to replace the clearly gone Grounds is a key signing. I rate Truelove, and clearly LJ does too offering him a deal when he's missed all of the season, but I'm not sure he'd be up to playing a full season just yet. Joe Mills would be ideal, in another better the devil you know moments; but with the added extra that I thought he was superb and a cracking player when on loan with us. A new wide player for the left hand side is also an important signing - as even if we sign Harkins, I think he'd be better employed behind the striker and not on the left. But - the most important of all the players coming in has to be the striker. JCH, Philliskirk and Turner are all decent enough prospects, certainly JCH & Philli will be all the better for playing a full season, but - if we were to get a stella (for us anyway) striker signing in; it would give us the option of going 2 up top or to bring the pacey JCH off the bench to replace the new chap. I'm now fully in the 'add to what's already here' camp rather than my previous 'rip it up and basically start again' one I was 6 weeks or so ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Latics_Fanatic Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Poor Man's Tony Pulis. Loving it at the moment though, proud to watch us again, unlike earlier in the season. Last few games may have also swayed me to buy a season ticket! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBosch Posted April 30, 2014 Author Share Posted April 30, 2014 (edited) I've definitely been impressed with the way he's changed his tactics. A LJ who'd have persisted with the fancy stuff would have seen us relegated a month or two ago. He's made us tremendously hard to beat and whilst it's not been eye candy, it's given us a base. I can't think of another Oldham manager who has ever been able, or tried, to do this. Even though it was ultimately unsuccessful when we were all out attack and passing early season the players were still carrying out his instructions, doing what he'd asked of them (apart from scoring). To have largely the same group of players successfully carrying out a completely different set of instructions within the same season is remarkable when you think about it. Edited April 30, 2014 by HarryBosch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
24hoursfromtulsehill Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Barring a monumental scoreline, we cant finish 12th now. Pure defeatism. We can do it. Late push. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjk2008 Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Pure defeatism. We can do it. Late push. We really cant. Unless you think we'll win 7-0 and Crawley or Bristol lose to the other around the same score. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlossopLatic Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 (edited) We really cant. Unless you think we'll win 7-0 and Crawley or Bristol lose to the other around the same score.Regardless of that fact we should be going out with the intention of beating Notts County on Saturday finishing this season on a high and taking this unbeaten run into next season. The players shouldn't be thinking about their holidays or their new contracts or even where they are going to be next season until the final whistle has gone and they are in the showers after the game. We may lose a few players this summer that's just a fact of life but if we can keep as many of them together as possible particularly the better players then we can build on this. Edited April 30, 2014 by GlossopLatic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_mighty_bosh Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 I'm now fully in the 'add to what's already here' camp rather than my previous 'rip it up and basically start again' one I was 6 weeks or so ago. This is exactly where I stand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petelatics Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Yes keep the basis of this team. If Harkins doesn't sign for us this will leave a huge whole in the team. He has provided far more to this team than a 'few flashy bits'. His goals have been invaluable and his creative spark was never better demonstrated than in the home win against Peterborough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oafc1895 Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 I think Joe Mills would be a key signing and will be there for the taking as IMO he is not good enough (yet) for the Prem. However, people keep saying about moving up the league over the next seasons. LJ, as good as he is, is not a miracle-worker. He'll need money to move us on and that is money we don't have. We keep selling our best players just to try to balance the books and by doing this, usually halfway through the season will mean we will not make progress. So IMO we need to be a lot more realistic about what we will do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankly Mr Shankly Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Yes keep the basis of this team. If Harkins doesn't sign for us this will leave a huge whole in the team. He has provided far more to this team than a 'few flashy bits'. His goals have been invaluable and his creative spark was never better demonstrated than in the home win against Peterborough. Absolutely. Whilst I do fall into a real man-love crush over 'sir Gary' on a regular basis, it's only since teams have been double marking him and giving him less space recently why he's been quieter. The end result? It's been creating space and room for others. We turned defeats into draws and draws into wins. I'd have Harkins signed up in a shot. An absolutely class player at this level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaticsEddie Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 I think Joe Mills would be a key signing and will be there for the taking as IMO he is not good enough (yet) for the Prem. However, people keep saying about moving up the league over the next seasons. LJ, as good as he is, is not a miracle-worker. He'll need money to move us on and that is money we don't have. We keep selling our best players just to try to balance the books and by doing this, usually halfway through the season will mean we will not make progress. So IMO we need to be a lot more realistic about what we will do. Well the sponsorship deal, the added revenue from the Tennant's of the spaces in the new stand and also the boosted crowd numbers if we start off flying in future seasons will all add to the coffers. I think I read in the chron that corney will dip into his pocket if we are seriously challenging for the top 6, he wouldn't need to if we just retain the player we would be having to replace. By no means will we be in a bidding war for messi anytime soon, but it all adds up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudemedic Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 (edited) We really cant. Unless you think we'll win 7-0 and Crawley or Bristol lose to the other around the same score. We beat Notts County 5-0, Colchester beat Walsall 5-0 (but Walsall are at home), Bradford don't beat Tranmere, it doesn't matter what the result between Crawley and Bristol is, we come 12th. It's the 10 goal swing we need compared to Walsall that's the issue. That sort of goal swing is rarely doable, but that only really happens when the teams play each other. Edited April 30, 2014 by rudemedic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlayItLivo Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 To be fair to Johnson, he's ended the season strongly. There's barely an examples of that happening in quite a few seasons. We usually end our seasons moving down the table, rather than up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opinions4u Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 I think the Montaño thing affected LJ more than we recognise and that knocked on to the squad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beag_teeets Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 I think the Montaño thing affected LJ more than we recognise and that knocked on to the squad. I said the same thing a few months back, it was this that knocked the wind out of his sails for some time. Appeared to affect the whole squad really, such a shame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oafc1895 Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Well the sponsorship deal, the added revenue from the Tennant's of the spaces in the new stand. With the sponsorship which means we might be out of pocket after signing. I don't know the ins and outs of the deal we have now and the profit from the shop but I know we only make £80k a year from SD. The 5 years is paied upfront but in the long run it may leave us in :censored: street. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Latics_Fanatic Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 With the sponsorship which means we might be out of pocket after signing. I don't know the ins and outs of the deal we have now and the profit from the shop but I know we only make £80k a year from SD. The 5 years is paied upfront but in the long run it may leave us in :censored: street. I'd be highly surprised if the shop doesn't run at a loss, if not, a very small profit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UpTheLatics Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 I was thinking about this area the other day. After the Rotherham defeat I honestly thought our number was up. I thought this year would be the year we finally fall out of this league. What Johnson has done deserves tremendous merit. At that point of the season I no longer cared for anything too open, expansive or attack-minded. Defensively we were a shambles. A few weeks later, we're unbeaten in nine and hold a proud defensive record. The signings of Adam Lockwood and James Wilson have been masterstrokes (in hindsight, anyhow). It's been tight and, with the exception of Bradford, lacking a flurry of excitement in the final third. But then, it never was. We've struggled for goals all season. What we now have is a solid base. We've picked up key victories and earned commendable draws against Leyton Orient, Brentford and Sheffield United. I don't think we've seen a total sacrifice of the quality of football. I thought our passing and movement on Saturday against Carlisle was very good to watch (I appreciate Carlisle were woeful for the majority of the game) but it has been so in other games, too. So we have the base. We've got a successful defence. Should we retain that back four Johnson can look further up the field. He can tailor the system. I'm certain that the current style does not need to be played, as though we're in a shell. We can open up and Johnson will look at this, I'm sure of it. Peterborough, for all of their goals a few years ago, failed to go up automatically. If they'd learned how to defend they would have won the league at a canter. Of course, I am not comparing us to them, but the principle remains the same. We're now tight and we have dependable and talented defenders. We can keep playing attractive football and we can score more goals. It is a work in progress. Bearing in mine the pressure everyone was under after the Rotherham defeat, to develop the team has Johnson has done deserves credit and praise. He will have the summer to further change things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjk2008 Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 We beat Notts County 5-0, Colchester beat Walsall 5-0 (but Walsall are at home), Bradford don't beat Tranmere, it doesn't matter what the result between Crawley and Bristol is, we come 12th. It's the 10 goal swing we need compared to Walsall that's the issue. That sort of goal swing is rarely doable, but that only really happens when the teams play each other. Well yes, there are other permutations, but my point is it won't happen barring a set of stupidly unrealistic results. We should still go out to rain on county's parade, though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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