do you back corney?

[mikeroyboy]

I don't think many view being in League One as a failure, but once we go down, the journey back is going to be a hell of a long one, which is why panic is setting in now.

 

There's no guarantee of ever appointing the right manager, but your chances surely improve if you're willing to offer a reasonable wage to try and get the right person. This is the season where we should have been as attractive as we're ever going to be to a decent manager - a good squad (and I believe they are good..) under contract that shouldn't need much tweaking to get us comfortably into mid-table, playing the right way. Instead, we've appointed a manager who plays terrible football, brings in a load of really mediocre loans and refuses to play our player of the year from last season. Of course we need luck, but you sometimes have to make it yourself - and at the moment we don't seem to be trying to do that.

 

As you say, we don't seem to have any alternative at the moment - but I still think it's OK to be unhappy about way the current owners are going about things.

Certainly it's OK to be unhappy, I'm unhappy. What I'm saying is, remaining in L1 is not failure, even if it's for the next 20yrs. By nature I always try to look at problems from a business perspective. As we agree there is no guarantee a larger salary will secure a top half of L1 position. I also suspect Dunn is on a substantially better package than Kelly because of his experience in the game. There is no sign as yet of any improvement so short term we have another duffer. Extensive Championship experience doesn't seem to be the secret ingredient which is opposite to what we thought Kelly lacked. The players look disorganised and quarrelsome so moral hasn't been boosted. Not forgetting the coaching team are a 4 man squad. The booing won't help anyone either. Successful managers at other clubs fail on a regular basis when moving on.

 

Unhappy fans are an intrinsic part of football. Every club has them and winning handsomely is the only thing that shuts them up, never for long. The bigger you are the more fickle the fan.

 

Where does Corney go now; at the moment I guess he is gutted over Dunn's start. His aversion to relegation and taking action to avoid it could be sorely tested if things haven't improved by the end of December. I can't see him giving the hapless (up to now) Dunn any money for the January window. I don't think he has parted company with two managers in one season so it could be squeaky bum time come the New Year.

 

If Dunn does fail (I haven't given up on him yet) I hope the next manager comes with experience at our level and at least 'some' experience of success. But it will be yet another gamble - it always is.

[Latics and England]

Certainly it's OK to be unhappy, I'm unhappy. What I'm saying is, remaining in L1 is not failure, even if it's for the next 20yrs. By nature I always try to look at problems from a business perspective. As we agree there is no guarantee a larger salary will secure a top half of L1 position. I also suspect Dunn is on a substantially better package than Kelly because of his experience in the game. There is no sign as yet of any improvement so short term we have another duffer. Extensive Championship experience doesn't seem to be the secret ingredient which is opposite to what we thought Kelly lacked. The players look disorganised and quarrelsome so moral hasn't been boosted. Not forgetting the coaching team are a 4 man squad. The booing won't help anyone either. Successful managers at other clubs fail on a regular basis when moving on.

 

Unhappy fans are an intrinsic part of football. Every club has them and winning handsomely is the only thing that shuts them up, never for long. The bigger you are the more fickle the fan.

 

Where does Corney go now; at the moment I guess he is gutted over Dunn's start. His aversion to relegation and taking action to avoid it could be sorely tested if things haven't improved by the end of December. I can't see him giving the hapless (up to now) Dunn any money for the January window. I don't think he has parted company with two managers in one season so it could be squeaky bum time come the New Year.

 

If Dunn does fail (I haven't given up on him yet) I hope the next manager comes with experience at our level and at least 'some' experience of success. But it will be yet another gamble - it always is.

 

I agree with you that staying in league one is not failure but the problem is that nobody supports a football club hoping that they won't fail.

 

You support a club with a hope/belief (no matter how forlorn) that they will achieve something. At the moment, that belief just isn't there because there is no sign of the club having a plan of any sort.

[Clifford]

We were never publicly going to be told the building was going tits up. That would either be a lack of cash or errors in the construction.

 

https://companycheck.co.uk/company/07025892/PCW-DEVELOPMENTS-LIMITED/directors-secretaries

[NewBlue]

We were never publicly going to be told the building was going tits up. That would either be a lack of cash or errors in the construction.

 

https://companycheck.co.uk/company/07025892/PCW-DEVELOPMENTS-LIMITED/directors-secretaries

It only fuels the fire of secrecy theories about the club, which fans already feel detached from.

Edited December 1, 2015 by NewBlue

[boundaryblue80]

I don't think Moore failed(Ronnie)the fans at the time didn't like his football.

 

I think he might have got us up given more time....don't bet on it though

I remember the day that fans got Moore got sacked. Gutted wasn't the word. Said to the lad who told me "that's set us back another 5 years...." And the years keep on mounting up. I've no doubt he would've got us up the following season considering what Shez (a not particularly good manager) did with his team.

[boundaryblue80]

Certainly it's OK to be unhappy, I'm unhappy. What I'm saying is, remaining in L1 is not failure, even if it's for the next 20yrs. By nature I always try to look at problems from a business perspective. As we agree there is no guarantee a larger salary will secure a top half of L1 position. I also suspect Dunn is on a substantially better package than Kelly because of his experience in the game. There is no sign as yet of any improvement so short term we have another duffer. Extensive Championship experience doesn't seem to be the secret ingredient which is opposite to what we thought Kelly lacked. The players look disorganised and quarrelsome so moral hasn't been boosted. Not forgetting the coaching team are a 4 man squad. The booing won't help anyone either. Successful managers at other clubs fail on a regular basis when moving on.

 

Unhappy fans are an intrinsic part of football. Every club has them and winning handsomely is the only thing that shuts them up, never for long. The bigger you are the more fickle the fan.

 

Where does Corney go now; at the moment I guess he is gutted over Dunn's start. His aversion to relegation and taking action to avoid it could be sorely tested if things haven't improved by the end of December. I can't see him giving the hapless (up to now) Dunn any money for the January window. I don't think he has parted company with two managers in one season so it could be squeaky bum time come the New Year.

 

If Dunn does fail (I haven't given up on him yet) I hope the next manager comes with experience at our level and at least 'some' experience of success. But it will be yet another gamble - it always is.

It's a very good post. Just would take issue with Corney being gutted over Dunns start though. Corney was going about the end of season awards telling people that Dunn had applied but he came across as a chancer and wouldn't be up to it. Then he appoints Kelly and hangs him out to dry. Meanwhile, plotting Dunns return and swiftly into the position of manager. If anything, he will be gutted with himself at making yet more monumentally :censored: decisions. If he cares enough.

[the_mighty_bosh]

I remember the day that fans got Moore got sacked. Gutted wasn't the word. Said to the lad who told me "that's set us back another 5 years...." And the years keep on mounting up. I've no doubt he would've got us up the following season considering what Shez (a not particularly good manager) did with his team.

.

 

Sorry bb80 I can't agree with that. As much as I rate Moore for the jobs that he does, he didn't play a style that suited our players back then. Shez did and got better results with mostly the same squad (and he cut a lot of deadwood that Moore signed too). I know it's simple to say but the latest decline clearly started from the Penney season.

[Stevie_J]

I have not voted, understandably not all options are there. I am 'content while he finds someone'. I would be gutted if he bumped the club, which of course is possible, as an act of desperation. I refuse to accept remaining in L1 during his tenor is failure.

 

I spent 30yrs in business, about 8 as director and 6 as chairman of a LTD company. I can easily relate and understand how difficult it is for football league owners to employ skilled staff manager/coaches/players when they themselves have little or no knowledge of sussing out the applicants reliability at forming a group of players to work together. The standard of managers in general is pretty poor, especially man-management. I do suspect that this is our major problem this season and not least Dunn's tactics on his learning curve.

 

Virtually every owner in the league suffers the same problem, many with devastating consequences. They are all at the mercy of LUCK with the manager who needs luck with the players he inherits and buys most of which he will not know personally. All that before the opposition try and sabotage your product.

 

How LUCKY are Bournemouth with Eddie Howe? An owner who is willing to invest and a very good manager who, along with his family, love the place. But we have enjoyed our share of luck and it lasted 12 magical years.

 

There is no doubt we are in a bad place at the moment but to call it failure to be still in L1 from a position of administration when many of our peers have plunged out of this division and beyond the next is far from a structured and informed viewpoint. Not least because in all case they are arrived at without any semblance of an alternative.

Of course it's not necessarily easy to recruit a manager and there's never any guarantee the guy you appoint will live up to his billing/interview. However, for the past four or so appointments Corney has relied pretty much on luck alone. In fairness, I can see why he was won over by and took a punt on Johnson. But I struggle for a rationale for appointing Kelly and Dunn from the supposedly best list of applicants Corney's ever had. And, to a lesser extent, I'm not sure that Dickov had much more going for him.

 

Seems to me that the more thought out appointments didn't turn out well and so the approach since has been to give it to someone who's looking for a low-paid (unpaid?) opportunity to make their name in management.

[boundaryblue80]

.

 

Sorry bb80 I can't agree with that. As much as I rate Moore for the jobs that he does, he didn't play a style that suited our players back then. Shez did and got better results with mostly the same squad (and he cut a lot of deadwood that Moore signed too). I know it's simple to say but the latest decline clearly started from the Penney season.

The decline in terms of the funds for the budget, I agree started under Penney. Shez wasted the last of the real money in his 3rd season. That about Moore however, people clearly misunderstood that season. Richie Wellens even stated at a Fans Forum the following season that Moore never wanted us to be so direct but we had (to quote Wellens) "some players who weren't good enough". The main culprit being Guy Branston who before his sacking, Moore had offered a vastly reduced deal knowing he wouldn't accept it (like we did with Lockwood last season etc) to get them to leave. Moore wanted to get the ball into the oppositions half as quick as possible and then play the football from there. A 2nd season to add to what he had brought in and some of the deadwood shifted out from Talbot's days and we would have been serious contenders. But that is history...although, I would have Ronnie back tomorrow in a shot! Shame our fans wouldn't.

[the_mighty_bosh]

Seems to me that the more thought out appointments didn't turn out well and so the approach since has been to give it to someone who's looking for a low-paid (unpaid?) opportunity to make their name in management.

 

Which isn't a terrible approach and to an extent has gone well before this year. Dickov did OK for two seasons before a mostly poor final one (which still included the Cup run) and Johnson showed in his near two seasons a lot of signs that he'll be a good manager in the future.

 

Since then though the feeling around the club has become a lot more negative (starting with the Evans fiasco but followed by the club lacking ambition on a few occasions) and we've required someone with nous along with good and bad previous experiences to draw upon to help steady the ship on and off the pitch. I think it was an achievement by Holden to keep us up in what were difficult circumstances, but he wouldn't have been my choice because that was the time to get someone proven in.

 

Kelly has proven and Dunn is proving Corney's method and timing to look foolish. Not only were they risky appointments anyway but I think Corney underestimated the loss of good will from the fans ever since the Evans debacle. I'd want to give both managers as much time as much as possible but they are clearly shortcut appointments by Corney when only the real thing will do.

[Stevie_J]

I think it was an achievement by Holden to keep us up in what were difficult circumstances...

I think you're being extremely charitable there.

[oafcmetty]

I think you're being extremely charitable there.

Well we were 4 points adrift at the foot of the table.

 

Wait, what?

[Lee Sinnott]

Holden did well to keep us up?

[oafcforever]

Just shows the expectations of some fans, we were nearer to playoffs than relegation when he took over!!

[the_mighty_bosh]

I think you're being extremely charitable there.

Well we were 4 points adrift at the foot of the table.

 

Wait, what?

Holden did well to keep us up?

Just shows the expectations of some fans, we were nearer to playoffs than relegation when he took over!!

 

Ha, blimey. That was meant to be a tiny part of the point I was making! Anyway I'll elaborate...

 

I didn't mean it as being a great achievement as it wasn't. But the club was going downhill at the time he took over due to the Evans saga, Johnson leaving, below average form and signficant injury problems. I thought a catastrophic run of form (similar to Port Vale's losing streak from a similar position) was easily possible with a first time manager in charge. So yes my expectations were extremely low, but I would count a first time manager slowing our decline by surviving relegation in the really :censored: situation that we were in as an OK achievement.

 

If we had an experienced manager in place after Johnson left, my expectations would've been much higher. That the board didn't do this and went for Holden was a poor decision. That the board didn't learn in the summer and have allowed our decline to continue is proving to be a spectacular failure.

[boundaryblue80]

 

 

Ha, blimey. That was meant to be a tiny part of the point I was making! Anyway I'll elaborate...

 

I didn't mean it as being a great achievement as it wasn't. But the club was going downhill at the time he took over due to the Evans saga, Johnson leaving, below average form and signficant injury problems. I thought a catastrophic run of form (similar to Port Vale's losing streak from a similar position) was easily possible with a first time manager in charge. So yes my expectations were extremely low, but I would count a first time manager slowing our decline by surviving relegation in the really :censored: situation that we were in as an OK achievement.

 

If we had an experienced manager in place after Johnson left, my expectations would've been much higher. That the board didn't do this and went for Holden was a poor decision. That the board didn't learn in the summer and have allowed our decline to continue is proving to be a spectacular failure.

While very few will genuinely claim that Holden saved us from relegation it can't be denied that there were voices saying we were going to end up relegated last season. Especially at HT in the game at Crewe. Holden was given an extremely :censored:ty task when he took over. Considering what has happened since...maybe we should have afforded him a go at it. I am finding the logic of fans strange when Shez, Dickov and Johnson got time and the often heavily used phrase "it's their first managerial appointment, let's give him some time" was afforded but not to any of the managers since. The most worrying aspect though is out of Holden, Kelly and Dunn, it's the latter of the 3 who is showing the least ability to cobble together a game-plan each week. Have to see how the players react to the latest shenanigans which is making Dunns task impossible but he needs to help himself too because that starting line up last week was very odd IMO. If he does get the chop though, I'd imagine the poison chalice will move onto Holden again. Then we will really see what he is made of.

Edited December 3, 2015 by boundaryblue80

[deyres42]

If I was Holden, or any other budding manager for that matter, I'd be steering well clear of us.

[yarddog73]

Holden a budding manager

 

What a CV that mans got, he must talk some :censored:e in his interviews.

[deyres42]

Holden a budding manager

 

What a CV that mans got, he must talk some :censored:e in his interviews.

Something you could never be accused of doing...

[HarryBosch]

 

 

Ha, blimey. That was meant to be a tiny part of the point I was making! Anyway I'll elaborate...

 

I didn't mean it as being a great achievement as it wasn't. But the club was going downhill at the time he took over due to the Evans saga, Johnson leaving, below average form and signficant injury problems. I thought a catastrophic run of form (similar to Port Vale's losing streak from a similar position) was easily possible with a first time manager in charge. So yes my expectations were extremely low, but I would count a first time manager slowing our decline by surviving relegation in the really :censored: situation that we were in as an OK achievement.

 

If we had an experienced manager in place after Johnson left, my expectations would've been much higher. That the board didn't do this and went for Holden was a poor decision. That the board didn't learn in the summer and have allowed our decline to continue is proving to be a spectacular failure.

OAFC brainwashing part 96 - managing a football team well is really, really difficult & nigh on impossible if it's the first time somebody has done it.