The banishing of 352.

[League one forever]

13 minutes ago, Guy Branston Pickle said:

That was the point of the rest of my post which you've decided to remove. We don't have the players for that formation, so i don't understand why he persists with it...

‘Decided to remove’ I was only picking up a certain point. 

 

Anyway- I’ll put it another then, even if we had the players I don’t think Unsy is tactically good enough to make it work. So whilst he is manager I never want to see it again. 

[Guy Branston Pickle]

4 minutes ago, League one forever said:

‘Decided to remove’ I was only picking up a certain point. 

 

Anyway- I’ll put it another then, even if we had the players I don’t think Unsy is tactically good enough to make it work. So whilst he is manager I never want to see it again. 

I agree with that. He just isn't a good enough manager to get a system like that working consistently. I fear he isn't a good enough manager to get any system working consistently but that's another issue...

[St92]

16 hours ago, Wardie said:

I think 4-3-3 may get results, depending upon the midfield, as we have six competent strikers to feed.

 

Unless one or more ST is playing out of position at LW or RW, 433 means picking 1 out of the 5 ST we have

[Dave_Og]

20 minutes ago, St92 said:

 

Unless one or more ST is playing out of position at LW or RW, 433 means picking 1 out of the 5 ST we have

I wouldn't say that any of the players in a 4-3-3 are wingers

[St92]

25 minutes ago, Dave_Og said:

I wouldn't say that any of the players in a 4-3-3 are wingers

 

That's literally what a 433 is

 

It's 1 ST, a LW, and a RW

[sjk2008]

1. Drop Norman and give Hudson a run

2. Abandon this 352 (7-2-1) formation 

3. Get a new RB and DM/CM

4. Play players in their right positions

5. Ward played RW sometimes so he could interchange with Green.
 

433

 

Hudson

 

New RB - Hobson - Raglan - Kitching

 

Gardner - New CM - Lundstram

 

Green - Norwood - Dickinson/Ward

 

442

 

Hudson

 

New RB - Hobson - Raglan - Kitching

 

Ward - Lundstram - New CM - Dickinson

 

Norwood - Willoughby

 

[Dave_Og]

23 minutes ago, St92 said:

 

That's literally what a 433 is

 

It's 1 ST, a LW, and a RW

 

They are much narrower than 'traditional' wingers 

[bigfatjoe1]

2 hours ago, sjk2008 said:

1. Drop Norman and give Hudson a run

2. Abandon this 352 (7-2-1) formation 

3. Get a new RB and DM/CM

4. Play players in their right positions

5. Ward played RW sometimes so he could interchange with Green.
 

433

 

Hudson

 

New RB - Hobson - Raglan - Kitching

 

Gardner - New CM - Lundstram

 

Green - Norwood - Dickinson/Ward

 

442

 

Hudson

 

New RB - Hobson - Raglan - Kitching

 

Ward - Lundstram - New CM - Dickinson

 

Norwood - Willoughby

 

I like the cut of your 442. Agree with the line-up. Looks like a decent team (assuming we get the new ones).

[St92]

3 hours ago, Dave_Og said:

 

They are much narrower than 'traditional' wingers 

 

What would you be meaning by a traditional winger? Traditional wide player in UK is in 442 formation which is LM and RM

 

LW and RW are still wider than ST would play and require a different skill set generally

[LightDN123]

15 minutes ago, St92 said:

 

What would you be meaning by a traditional winger? Traditional wide player in UK is in 442 formation which is LM and RM

 

LW and RW are still wider than ST would play and require a different skill set generally

If we are looking at playing any of of strikers in the LW / RW position you can instantly take Norwood, Nuttall and Fondop out of that, one of them would need to be the central striker. So that leaves Reid and Willoughby out the 5 strikers, I’ve not seen enough of Willoughby to comment on him. Reid, I’m not sure he is that ability to play as one of the wide players. He’s best utilised playing on the shoulder of the last defender with someone to partner him up top. 
 

In a 433 I think the best wide players would be Tollitt LW and Green RW. But he can’t do that as he can’t leave 4 out of the 5 on the bench/out the squad. He’s effectively strangled himself . 

Edited August 7, 2023 by LightDN123

[Dave_Og]

1 hour ago, St92 said:

 

What would you be meaning by a traditional winger? Traditional wide player in UK is in 442 formation which is LM and RM

 

LW and RW are still wider than ST would play and require a different skill set generally

Someone who gets to the byline and crosses. Sadly an endangered species.

[Flemboy]

I always knew Latics since I started following them in 1970 as playing 442  with exciting wingers and top strikers.

[St92]

2 hours ago, LightDN123 said:

If we are looking at playing any of of strikers in the LW / RW position you can instantly take Norwood, Nuttall and Fondop out of that, one of them would need to be the central striker. So that leaves Reid and Willoughby out the 5 strikers, I’ve not seen enough of Willoughby to comment on him. Reid, I’m not sure he is that ability to play as one of the wide players. He’s best utilised playing on the shoulder of the last defender with someone to partner him up top. 
 

In a 433 I think the best wide players would be Tollitt LW and Green RW. But he can’t do that as he can’t leave 4 out of the 5 on the bench/out the squad. He’s effectively strangled himself . 

 

Yeah this is what I've been saying for a while

 

DU said his preferred system was 433, and has built a squad that makes it nearly impossible

 

But there's a real lack of balance in the squad that means we aren't suited to any systems really 

 

With Hope and Tollitt out of favour we don't have enough wide midfield players to play a proper 442 and only one full back

 

We don't have the players for 532 with wing backs as mentioned on this thread

 

And 433 out for the reasons above

 

4231 might be the way to go, just stick Norwood up top, with Green Willoughby and Dickenson/Ward behind, let those 3 swap positions as much as they like and get some movement for the opposition to think about. But DU seems to like players sticking to positions rigidly so I don't see it happening 

[Summerdeep]

6 hours ago, Flemboy said:

I always knew Latics since I started following them in 1970 as playing 442  with exciting wingers and top strikers.

 

I've always regarded the formation used by Frizzell's promotion sides in 1971 and 1974 as 4-2-4. The wingers (Heath/Bebbington and McVitie/Groves) were definitely part of the forward line in my view, but it's true they could play deeper when required and could thus also be regarded as part of the midfield. I've never heard anyone use the term 4-2-4 for a few decades now, but it was definitely a thing in the 60s and 70s. 

 

Brazil's famous World Cup winning side in 1970 lined up in 4-2-4 formation, with Gerson and Clodoaldo running the midfield and Jairzinho and Rivelino on the wings. Rivelino did play frequently as a deepish  midfielder for his club sides Corinthians and Fluminense though.

 

Edited August 8, 2023 by Summerdeep

[BP1960]

4 hours ago, Summerdeep said:

 

I've always regarded the formation used by Frizzell's promotion sides in 1971 and 1974 as 4-2-4. The wingers (Heath/Bebbington and McVitie/Groves) were definitely part of the forward line in my view, but it's true they could play deeper when required and could thus also be regarded as part of the midfield. I've never heard anyone use the term 4-2-4 for a few decades now, but it was definitely a thing in the 60s and 70s. 

 

Brazil's famous World Cup winning side in 1970 lined up in 4-2-4 formation, with Gerson and Clodoaldo running the midfield and Jairzinho and Rivelino on the wings. Rivelino did play frequently as a deepish  midfielder for his club sides Corinthians and Fluminense though.

 

 

I prefer a 442 with full backs and wingers, as you say the 1970s and 90s with the likes of Alan Groves and Rick Holden were among the best ever.

I still look out for exciting wingers who can take defenders to the cleaners like Bridge of Southend, Berry at Macc and Duffy of Warrington.

Edited August 8, 2023 by BP1960