singe Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 (edited) I've been in touch with Lee and he has accepted my offer to help him and his family with the case. I have a longstanding personal interest and involvement in civil liberties issues and the like (the traditional sort that means an Englishman can go about his business without restraint, not the arse sort that let's gypsies crap on your lawn) and various media and political contacts and knowledge, so I am happy to help coordinate the effort. Any people with special knowledge (legal etc) please chip in! Targets will include: Essex Police Our police Police Complaints Commission (probably the key one - they will take a complaint seriously with no sweeping beneath the carpet) Various Supporters organisations and umbrella groups (including Colchester's) - Mark, you seem the ideal man to go with this? Lee's MP My MP (as the same could have happened to me) The FA The Football League They stupidly and incorrectly tried to make an example of Lee, I think we should make an example of them and try to get some good out of the nasty episode. I saw every single thing that Mark outlined above, except I didn't see what went on immediately after we scored the goal. Please all try to focus on what you yourself saw rather than what you heard about or read, as that is all that you can testify to in good faith. CAn I add that I am almost certain that doormen and poss security guards now have to undertake examinations and be licensed. Certaintly similar to a Bar Licence holder. Can'tt recall exactly, but there is obviously a licencsing authority. In the case of Bar licence it moved from the local court/JP to Local Authority, IIRC it si the same for doormen. Certainly an evenue to persue, expecially if other areas are less fruitful Although I think that is what someone else implied Edi The stewarding must be civere by the SIA surely? SIA 2nd edit Depends if they are in house or not. I don;t thin hey were for something I ahve seen written Exemptions for in house at football matches Edited August 31, 2008 by singe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest M_OAFC Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 Does he have a copy of the document? the police can only hold anyone without charge for 48 hours after that its a bail hearing. I cant see that being ejected from a football ground warrents this. However nothing suprises me these days. I will drop you a mail tomorrow from work when I have had a word with out local copper. Yes he does have copy of it. Another interesting thing about it is that there is a section on it which gives the impression that it is supposed to be counter signed by an adult if the person being issued with the reprimand is under 18. Lee is only 17, that section has not been signed and Lee had no adult present on his behalf. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy_b_100 Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 Yes he does have copy of it. Another interesting thing about it is that there is a section on it which gives the impression that it is supposed to be counter signed by an adult if the person being issued with the reprimand is under 18. Lee is only 17, that section has not been signed and Lee had no adult present on his behalf. Oops ... caution quashed then. Thats easy enough, wonder if they even asked for his DOB. It may not be relevant though depending on what it is. I have sent lee a text (his line is curiously busy) To offer my help. Look forward to meeting you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest M_OAFC Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 Another noteworthy point is that a number of OAFC stewards were in attendance as paying customers and expressed their disgust at the incident. One in particular was furious about it and was adament he would be taking the matter up regardless but Lee has his number just in case. It may be worth giving him a ring. If he alerts OAFC to his misgivings about the stewards actions I'm sure that would carry some weight. If OAFC ignore him when he says the stewarding was horrendous they are effectively accusing their own stewards of being incompetent which I doubt would go down well. I'm sure that wouldn't be an issue though as I've no reason to doubt that OAFC will take his concerns very seriously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie_m'gurk Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 I thought it was a disgrace. I tried to have a valid conversation with the 3 police officers who turned there back on the incident in question, my opinion was met with a patronising and sarcastic attitude. As for the Stewards, they went mob handed into that young lad. Something needs to be reported to the club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest M_OAFC Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 Oops ... caution quashed then. Thats easy enough, wonder if they even asked for his DOB. It may not be relevant though depending on what it is. I have sent lee a text (his line is curiously busy) To offer my help. Look forward to meeting you. I'm sure Lee will bring the document along to our meeting for your perusal. If he's on the phone to his girlfriend I don't blame him. Wow is all I can say!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
futchers briefs Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 (edited) The story sounds similar in ways to an incident a few years ago at Preston, we'd been on the old "booze bus" for a few years and one of the regulars Pete (ian Liversidge Brother) had took a very uneceesary "towelling" off the PNE police that day, i'm quite sure that his case went to court (he was on crutches for a short while after the assault!!) and many of us were called to provide witness statements against Lancahire police. If there are other members on here who were involved at the time, they may be able to provide help/advice with the 'procedure'/best way to go about this. As Mark and others have said, this type of incident certainly needs stopping. 1 other mention of ridiculous ejects = Chubbs at Huddersfield!?!? these power mad idiots need to be taken out of the game!!! Edited August 31, 2008 by futchers briefs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest oa_exile Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 Oops ... caution quashed then. Thats easy enough, wonder if they even asked for his DOB. It may not be relevant though depending on what it is. I have sent lee a text (his line is curiously busy) To offer my help. Look forward to meeting you. I mentioned this on the other thread as he is under age Could be right D_S , was Solicitor present ? Disclaimer : Not that I am an expert on these matters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
latic12345 Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 Agree with all the sentiments on here and it is good of people to offer to co-ordinate. I think we should all be clear though. With a centrally co-ordinated effort, it is important that they are copied in on any communications regarding this event. In addition, it is probably worth the central effort (Lee and those who have offered support) be the only people to contact the key stakeholders (Police and complaints commissions etc). These are the only people who can now review the evidence and quash the reprimand against Lee's name. It is important that all the evidence is presented in a coherent and cohesive way to make the most impact. For those of you who wish to write to CUFC, you shouldnt be discouraged. We can all write those letters just making sure that Andy (as he has offered and seems to have Lee's blessing) is copied in. Please make sure correspondence is fact based and not emotion filled. I appreciate that this is an emotive episode, however, if that comes through more than the facts, this will only serve to harm the argument and fuel the "mob mentality" argument that will undoubtedly come from the other side. P.S. Lee, I understand that you want to express your opinion and it is right you get to air it. You need to do it in the right forums. This may not be it as if you let emotion get the better of you and this progresses, posts on here could be used on which to base statements / discredit statements. You dont want that to harm your case in any way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudemedic Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 I was asked for mine prior to an application. I mean no disrespect to the company, however I know several infact over 30 doormen in thier employ. You dont need one to work the MEN or in car parks, however for public events like matchday stewarding it is a pre requisite before interview I think this may be new (or they may have changed their policy to recruit more people) as when I worked for showsec during the commonwealth games they accepted my application very quickly, I did a quick training course (couple of days) which i could have done in my sleep (just some basic knowledge about football would have probably meant you passed) on which there was nothing about door management/bouncing and there you go. The bloke who was my supervsior did some work for them at Citeh and if he was a bouncer i'd eat my hat as he was small (he is smaller than me and I'm small). Some of the people they employ though have obviously got some interest in 'bouncing' and the same could be said for other stewards and this is what concerns me as stewarding football is different to being a bouncer but some of the people that do it treat it the same. BTW if you are going to write to MPs can I suggest that you write to most of the ones who represent some of the areas where there are a few Latics fans such as all the Oldham and Rochdale (including Heywood+Middleton) ones, plus those in parts of Tameside. As like LeesLover said this could have happened to any of us and if more MPs know about it the better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaticsLee Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 Sorry if my phone has been engaged i am on the phone to the misses lol pm me or e-mail if you like thanks alot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 (edited) I am very happy you have decided to fight this injustice. In regards to the police complaints authority I highly recommend you contact them make a complaint against the attending officers at the game and also the fact that he has been given a caution when they did not have any grounds to do so. I have some experience of dealing with them. I wont go into to many details of what happened but it was regarding the disgusting treatment of a number of Oldham fans by GM police years ago at Wigan. I wrote a letter clearly stating my compaint and describing exactly what happened and why I felt it was wrong. At first I didnt hear anything back until one day I got a knock on the door. Two senior police men where on my door step wanting to speak to me about my complaint. They where nothing short of brilliant and at no point tried to bully me, threaten me, say I was lieing etc etc, they was there to take a statement and they really treated me like a victim instead of someone attacking them. It was a real posative expeirience and I do encourage you to go down this route regarding the police involvement (or lack of it) and the caution... I won and got a full and frank apollogy. An appology is them admitting they where wrong and I was right and would of allowed me then to actually sue them acording to my solictor. So it was victory and proof the system works.... I think clearing this young mans name is the most important thing. A caution can effect employment and other factors so it needs sorting. So the first port of call has to be the PCA.... Secondly I belive Lee should actually file a complaint of asult against the steward in question. Finally I do belive the CUFC need to be held accountable. No matter if it is a private firm or not they repersent that club and they need to take responsabilty for there security. Considering the "fan on the board" is an ex copper maybe it is worth talking to him as well..... Good luck and please keep us all up to date! Edited August 31, 2008 by oafc0000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafcprozac Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 (edited) I am very happy you have decided to fight this injustice. In regards to the police complaints authority I highly recommend you contact them make a complaint against the attending officers at the game and also the fact that he has been given a caution when they did not have any grounds to do so. I have some experience of dealing with them. I wont go into to many details of what happened but it was regarding the disgusting treatment of a number of Oldham fans by GM police years ago at Wigan. I wrote a letter clearly stating my compaint and describing exactly what happened and why I felt it was wrong. At first I didnt hear anything back until one day I got a knock on the door. Two senior police men where on my door step wanting to speak to me about my complaint. They where nothing short of brilliant and at no point tried to bully me, threaten me, say I was lieing etc etc, they was there to take a statement and they really treated me like a victim instead of someone attacking them. It was a real posative expeirience and I do encourage you to go down this route regarding the police involvement (or lack of it) and the caution... I won and got a full and frank apollogy. An appology is them admitting they where wrong and I was right and would of allowed me then to actually sue them acording to my solictor. So it was victory and proof the system works.... I think clearing this young mans name is the most important thing. A caution can effect employment and other factors so it needs sorting. So the first port of call has to be the PCA.... Secondly I belive Lee should actually file a complaint of asult against the steward in question. Finally I do belive the CUFC need to be held accountable. No matter if it is a private firm or not they repersent that club and they need to take responsabilty for there security. Considering the "fan on the board" is an ex copper maybe it is worth talking to him as well..... Good luck and please keep us all up to date! Barry was first point of call for Rick last night when we were trying to ascertain the facts and whether the correct procedures regarding the arrest of a minor had been adhered to. The most frustrating thing is all football fans are tarnished with the same 'pond-life' brush - 70s and 80s mentality, football has moved on, the authorities haven't. Many of the idiots (stewards and other crowd control agencies) who carry out these weekly injustices don't have the intelligence to realise that sooner or later they will pick on the wrong person and as many of the crowd are upstanding, professional people they will not allow this sort of thing to be swept under the carpet. Picking on this young lad in front of so many witnesses has opened up one hell of a can of worms, OAFC would do well to warn their stewards what the consequences are of mis-treating innocent individuals. Many of these flourescent wearing wannebees think they will not be held accountable for their actions, how wrong they are! Edited August 31, 2008 by oafcprozac Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 I can only agree with the points that have been raised - many of you will want to raise points with many of the relevant bodies, and tell them what you saw - please do so - it will also help the cause hugely if you copy me and Lee into this as we need to get all the available evidence together in a straightforward and unemotional way. If you copy us, we know how to contact you, as much as I know that people on here are giving honest accounts of what happened, we need the real deal to potentially go to a court with. A lot of of you have alreay posted what you say on here, and I saw a lot of you actually involved (asking coppers what was going on and so on). PM me the full story What did a steward say to you? What did a copper say? What did you see? As you can see we have an expert on hand who will make good sense of it all for us, let's give him the most accurate version of ALL of our recollections so that we can sort this thing out and get justice done. PS re Barry, most certainly I would be hoping that he will be getting involved, the same thing goes - let's get the facts together so we have something to fight with! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snookmeister Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 I don't think that's quite right Matt - you are entitled to anything that is held that has personal information about you, which certainly includes your image on film. You or I couldn't demand the footage except any bits that we happened to be in, but Lee can. A letter quoting the Freedom of Information Act and a tenner should do the trick, and if they don't divvy up within 20 days then it's over to the Onbudsman. Pretty much spot on, Lees. I work for ADT so I know a little bit about CCTV. The controllers of the CCTV scheme (in this case CUFC) are legally bound under the code of practice of the DPA ( Data Protection Act) to provide any footage of an individual, if it is so held, and if the individual requests it. That footage may be edited to protect the identities of individuals not involved, but provide the footage they must. (as long as some is held of course!). And make sure that the footage is requested asap, as after 30 days, the scheme controller has to delete all footage held. Hope you're all suitably nodding off!!! Good luck with everything guys. Fight the power, brothers!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafcmetty Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 If anyone wants to draft something to publish on the Supporters Direct email list regarding this matter, feel free to PM me and I'll post it there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest M_OAFC Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 Many of these flourescent wearing wannebees think they will not be held accountable for their actions, how wrong they are! I wish you'd stop slagging the players off Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafcprozac Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 I wish you'd stop slagging the players off They wern't fluorescent, they were white and he most definitely is a wannabe! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 (edited) If anyone wants to draft something to publish on the Supporters Direct email list regarding this matter, feel free to PM me and I'll post it there. Sounds like you might want to liaise with M_OAFC regarding that. Decent fans need to know what to expect when they enter a ground. Copy me please also! Edited August 31, 2008 by leeslover Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diego_Sideburns Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 .. many of you will want to raise points with many of the relevant bodies, and tell them what you saw - please do so - it will also help the cause hugely if you copy me and Lee into this as we need to get all the available evidence together I have written to the CUFC Chief Executive with a copy to Alan Hardy. I have also forwarded a copy to Lee, leeslover and Alan Hardy. I am willing to give a witness statement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 Pretty much spot on, Lees. I work for ADT so I know a little bit about CCTV. The controllers of the CCTV scheme (in this case CUFC) are legally bound under the code of practice of the DPA ( Data Protection Act) to provide any footage of an individual, if it is so held, and if the individual requests it. That footage may be edited to protect the identities of individuals not involved, but provide the footage they must. (as long as some is held of course!). And make sure that the footage is requested asap, as after 30 days, the scheme controller has to delete all footage held. Hope you're all suitably nodding off!!! Good luck with everything guys. Fight the power, brothers!!! You are quite right, it's DP ( ) rather than Freedom of Information. As I live in London, and have previously described my job as, "counting parking tickets," you might imagine that I have had the odd brush with CCTV issues in my time Quite right about the timeliness issues as well. I will take steps tomorrow to find out what I need to do to get hold of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snookmeister Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 You are quite right, it's DP ( ) rather than Freedom of Information. As I live in London, and have previously described my job as, "counting parking tickets," you might imagine that I have had the odd brush with CCTV issues in my time Quite right about the timeliness issues as well. I will take steps tomorrow to find out what I need to do to get hold of them. There's always (or at least there should be) contact details on the CCTV warning signs around protected areas/properties etc which names the scheme controller and a phone number for enquiries. Not much use now I know, but I'm guessing it's just going to be CUFC. And the less said about DP the better.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diego_Sideburns Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 The email address for the CUFC Chief Executive is: caroline@colchesterunited.net and mark the heading: For the attention of Marie Partner, Chief Executive copy to: alan.hardy@oldhamathletic.co.uk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 I'll source the CCTV and get authority for a copy of it. I'm sure it will make fascinating viewing, unles it gets lost. In the meantime, thanks to those who have already given me their clear and factual accounts of what they themselves observed. More please. Everyone who has posted about what they saw on this or the other thread should be sending me a message or an email. I could just copy and paste off the threads, but it will be much better to have it as adirect report - we all know that people talk :censored: on messageboards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BucksBlue Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 Hi - I cannot add anything "new" to the various accounts on this board, however I am very happy to provide a supporting statement if required. I am a 50 year old "serious" professional man, I was attending the match on my own and I was sitting in an aisle seat just as Lee was manhandled down the steps immediately next to me. He was certainly not resisting in any way. He was "held, jostled and surrounded by a number of stewards" and he had little opportunity for any resistance. When the group reached the bottom of the stairs and the main walkway along the goal line, then there was more jostling from the steward who was holding Lee. The steward then appeared to put his face in a close and threatening manner into Lee's face. The whole group were then moving and jostling and the steward simply lost personal control and acted in a violent manner. His actions were entirely inappropriate. Please feel free to use this and I will be happy to sign a statement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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