oafc0000 Posted November 30, 2008 Share Posted November 30, 2008 I barely tried at all as I didn't want to make it any harder for you than I needed to. What you are fundamentally missing is that there are other things that will shift other than the mode of transport people choose to make for a pre-ordained journey. But you aren't clever enough to see that. Oh well. :lol; Many things will shift... And you can counter act them all and the shifts in many instances will not be as big as feared... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz_Oafc Posted November 30, 2008 Share Posted November 30, 2008 Both B2B and retail... Why? Just to try and see it from your view being a business owner in Manchester. Coz i thought you’d be of the opposite view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yard Dog Posted November 30, 2008 Share Posted November 30, 2008 ...but have been priviliged to see the world as part of my work, quite a few countries put our transport system to shame. Unfortunately no political :censored:e will alter that fact. Too true...so isn't about time we saw the transport system improved ? In some respects this country is a victim of its own success and being the first industrialised and truly developed country in the world. Our Victorian successes now actually hinder our development and progress....small narrow roads, railway bridges that are only large enough for single-decker trains - trains should be all double-decker now like on the continent but it would cost an absolute fortune to upgrade the train network largely because of the amount of bridges that would need altering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
footy68 Posted November 30, 2008 Share Posted November 30, 2008 Yes it is, but it should be done without political hoodoo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted November 30, 2008 Share Posted November 30, 2008 Just to try and see it from your view being a business owner in Manchester. Coz i thought you’d be of the opposite view. What makes you think I would have the opposite view?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted November 30, 2008 Share Posted November 30, 2008 Yes it is, but it should be done without political hoodoo. When you say political hoodoo...what do you mean ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
footy68 Posted November 30, 2008 Share Posted November 30, 2008 How much has all of this congestion charge malarky cost so far? If the transport system was better we wouldn't be needing this thread. The political hoodoo is just that, ministers creating a smoke screen to cover up their failings for our transport network. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted November 30, 2008 Share Posted November 30, 2008 (edited) The political hoodoo is just that, ministers creating a smoke screen to cover up their failings for our transport network. Well you need to look at the torys for that.... Private companies own the transport network... Not the government... Edited November 30, 2008 by oafc0000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trickyrickyholden Posted November 30, 2008 Share Posted November 30, 2008 Bad for the environment We can never sustain a car per person I enjoy reading on the way to work eeeee i have been stirred to post congratulations oafc0000 Bad for the environment? I'm guessing here that you mean global warming? Since it is still highly debatable that human activity can cause global warming, and all the real experts on the matter distance themselves as far away as possible from the scaremongering caused by tree hugging morons. (did you know that the real experts believe that increased CO2 levels is an effect and not a cause of global warming?) We can never sustain a car per person? i can forgive 1 throwaway comment that has no sound stats behind it. You enjoy reading on the way to work? i thought you were calling people selfish before, this is the most selfish comment in this thread. i have voted against the congestion charge for the simple fact that there is too much residential land-use within the limit. A previous poster has mentioned that his girlfriend lives across the limit from him. I believe the fact that the couple would have to pay to visit each other is pretty much a show stopper. Anyone who disagrees with me obviously does not believe in love :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
footy68 Posted November 30, 2008 Share Posted November 30, 2008 Got there in the end....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
footy68 Posted November 30, 2008 Share Posted November 30, 2008 Well you need to look at the torys for that.... Private companies own the transport network... Not the government... Railtrack? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted November 30, 2008 Share Posted November 30, 2008 Railtrack? Was formed in 1994 by the torys.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz_Oafc Posted November 30, 2008 Share Posted November 30, 2008 What makes you think I would have the opposite view?? Cos my oppinion is, businesses will be affected. But like you said, your planning ahead and hope to profit from it. not all will be lucky! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted November 30, 2008 Share Posted November 30, 2008 You enjoy reading on the way to work? i thought you were calling people selfish before, this is the most selfish comment in this thread. How is that selfish... Its a reason why I dont drive?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackey Posted November 30, 2008 Share Posted November 30, 2008 I'd vote yes for two simple reasons that it will speed up the connection of Manchester Airport to the City, which will greatly benefit centrally located hotels and tourism based business and also improve standards for locals. The second is smartcard or "touch'n'go" being introduced. This system is the business when correctly implemented and makes using public transport a dozen times easier. One thing I'd like to see which hasn't been mentioned is an improvement in communication. It's so difficult in Grt Manchester to work out where to get connections and transfers. The map/schedule info is difficult to follow and no significant landmarks are noted next to the places. Finally, introduce a better online planning system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted November 30, 2008 Share Posted November 30, 2008 not all will be lucky! Nothing to do with luck...to do with planning... You cant point out any ways it will effect any business though...so sorry if i think your opinion isnt based on anything but scarmongering... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
footy68 Posted November 30, 2008 Share Posted November 30, 2008 (edited) Was formed in 1994 by the torys.... Network Rail was formed with the principal purpose of acquiring and owning Railtrack plc. Originally the Government allowed private companies to bid for Railtrack plc. However, with limited availability of financial data on Railtrack, the political implications of owning the company and the very obvious preference of the government that the national railway network should go to Network Rail, no bidders apart from Network Rail were forthcoming, and Network Rail bought Railtrack plc in October 2002. Labour... Was that a railroad? (see what I did there) Edited November 30, 2008 by footy68 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted November 30, 2008 Share Posted November 30, 2008 Network Rail was formed with the principal purpose of acquiring and owning Railtrack plc. Originally the Government allowed private companies to bid for Railtrack plc. However, with limited availability of financial data on Railtrack, the political implications of owning the company and the very obvious preference of the government that the national railway network should go to Network Rail, no bidders apart from Network Rail were forthcoming, and Network Rail bought Railtrack plc in October 2002. Labour... Yes.. Labour have started to correct the mistakes.... You mentioned Railtrack...not network rail..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
footy68 Posted November 30, 2008 Share Posted November 30, 2008 The Labour government at the time bailed them out (railtrack) then allowed a 'railroad' of a sale, when they had the chance to take back the network into government hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted November 30, 2008 Share Posted November 30, 2008 The Labour government at the time bailed them out (railtrack) then allowed a 'railroad' of a sale, when they had the chance to take back the network into government hands. I see what your trying to do... I dont think you can lay down the privatisation of the railways on labours door when it was CLEARLY the torys that did it Specially considering the changes Labour have made.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz_Oafc Posted November 30, 2008 Share Posted November 30, 2008 Nothing to do with luck...to do with planning... You cant point out any ways it will effect any business though...so sorry if i think your opinion isnt based on anything but scarmongering... apart from the post earlier where i gave you the facts and figures of how it harmed londons businesses in the congestion zone. but thats fine, and my opinion isnt just based on how it will harm any business. Like i said, its going to affect my younger sisters education, she might not do as well as she's currently doing if he has to move schools. Im probably so against it because its going to affect me and my family in a negative way. i cant help but think, what happens once this loan (to improve the transport) is repaid, where does the money go then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted November 30, 2008 Share Posted November 30, 2008 (edited) apart from the post earlier where i gave you the facts and figures of how it harmed londons businesses in the congestion zone. but thats fine, and my opinion isnt just based on how it will harm any business. Like i said, its going to affect my younger sisters education, she might not do as well as she's currently doing if he has to move schools. Im probably so against it because its going to affect me and my family in a negative way. They was very selective quotes... Also your sister should learn to use her legs or maybe even catch a bus ? Do you realise the proposal includes a investment into school yellow buses?? 180 Yellow School Buses would be introduced across Greater Manchester providing customised services to schools, with seats allocated to pupils and drivers dedicated to the servicei cant help but think, what happens once this loan (to improve the transport) is repaid, where does the money go then? Maybe into the public purse... Where else would it go ? Some people seems to think taxes go into gordon browns personal account.... Edited November 30, 2008 by oafc0000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz_Oafc Posted November 30, 2008 Share Posted November 30, 2008 (edited) They was very selective quotes... Also your sister should learn to use her legs or maybe even catch a bus ? Do you realise the proposal includes a investment into school yellow buses?? [*]180 Yellow School Buses would be introduced across Greater Manchester providing customised services to schools, with seats allocated to pupils and drivers dedicated to the service Bit personal? if she was old enough to use a bus on her own i dont think id be having this debate with you in the first place, she's only 7! also there wouldnt be one of those yellow busses come up to our house anyway as no one from her class or school live in the area! i think il leave it there now oafc0000! Edited November 30, 2008 by Gaz_Oafc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted November 30, 2008 Share Posted November 30, 2008 (edited) Bit personal? Bit personal...not at all... Your brought your sister into the debate... Dont do that unless you want her to become the centre of that debate.... How far from school does your sister live ? Worse case... Drive to a yellow bus pick up point outside of the congestion charge zone.... Problem solved... http://www.yellowschoolbus.info Edited November 30, 2008 by oafc0000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted November 30, 2008 Share Posted November 30, 2008 :lol; Many things will shift... And you can counter act them all and the shifts in many instances will not be as big as feared... So... You can cause what in effect will be many millions of individual economic decisions to be altered, which you want - as you want behaviour to change on a large scale via forcing people to alter their behaviour through a large taxation policy - yet you reckon you can make it work out so that nothing will change much for anybody. You, Sir, are not a Genius, you are a God. Or possibly a jumped up idiot, the jury is still out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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