Constructive Email

[shefflatic]

Dear Simon,

 

I have sent this email to you because I care deeply about my team and wish to express my thoughts to you, not in any guise to have a 'go' at you personally nor your fellow directors, but simply to air my views.

 

Now I would like to think I am a well educated person in terms of having an appreciation of football in general and the pros and cons of every decision made by chairmen and boards of directors, everyone has their own opinions and views and I always analyse things from both sides and appreciate that in some ways 'the men at the top' can never win the hearts and minds of their fans, in fact this is nigh on certain. Fans will no doubt question the usual assumed 'lack of investment/ambition' but I know you to be deeply passionate about our long term success and agree that while Scunthorpe are in football there is hope for everyone that success can be achieved by not going overboard financially - the fans would take that all day over administration - we are lucky to have you guys in charge who keep sensible yet ambitious heads when making decisions.

 

I appreciate that following the departure of the previous management team, you wished to install someone who would bring a greater level of professionalism and discipline into the club, to which end Dave Penney has undoubtedly achieved.

I can also see that he comes across as a hard working and pleasant individual who is no doubt doing is best for the club.

 

I, like yourself, hate the constant merry-go-round of the football management world and accept there comes a time when a team and club need to firmly back a manger for at least 3 years, as was the case with JS where he built a decent squad of players and established good footballing principles, in order to have any hope of long term success.

 

In this case however, it is not working with Dave in charge.

 

The fans are not disheartened so much by the league position and relegation scrap; this was to be expected in some ways with it being a transition season - it is the way we have performed on the pitch, no matter which players have played. There is seemingly an attitude of 'a point is better than none' when entering games instead of going hell for leather for 90 minutes giving it everything for the win. Martin Gray was quoted as saying in the Advertiser in the build up to the Exeter game 'We have got to win - nothing less is acceptable' - yet post match, Dave appears and states 'A point is a good result'. There appears to be a complete lack of fight and ambition in his tactics and general touchline demeanour - 2-0 down today and he is simply stood with hands in pockets, laughing and joking with his assistant. His tactice have been poor - playing Danny Whitaker, a central midfielder, on the wing when having Colbeck and Milllar available is absolutely baffling.

 

He has made no attempt to connect with the fans in any way. A simple message along the lines of 'I know this season has been poor and performances not pretty to watch, but I am doing my best, know what is required and will endeavour to get it right in the summer' would, if not win over the fans, at least afford him a little respect from the paying public. All managers make poor signings, that is inevitable and the players also take a large slice of blame for their lack of achievement this season, but as in any business the person responsible for their performance takes the ultimate consequences.

 

In this respect I feel it correct that Dave be removed from his duties. The timing of this is incredibly difficult to pinpoint as any disruption could lead to the demise of the team, but I would be ruthless and do it now. I would appoint Lee Duxbury and Tony Philiskirk as a temporary team until may. They would command the respect of the fans and hopefully instill passion and purpose into the team, with Sean Gregan remaining as the Club/Team Captain.

 

Long term (Realistically) I would appoint one of two people:

 

1- JIM GANNON - At Peterborough until may but has as yet not signed a new contract. This is due to the refusal of his wife to move away from the Stockport area. Contact him NOW and gauge his feelings towards coming to us in june. He is a great believer in players having energy, commitment and a high endorser of youth players, key for a club like ours. He did very well on an extremely low budget at Stockport and would hopefully have more money wage wise to play with with us. I know he is outspoken and has his views, but he only speaks his mind and is truly honest and will back anyone who tries their best - that is all fans want to see at the end of the day win or lose; Plays good attacking football with passion and is also loyal by sticking with County until he was made redundant.

 

2- JOHN COLEMAN - At Accrington currently. Has managed to get them within touching distance of the playoffs on what must be literally next to nothing wage budget again playing good football with attacking intent and effort, shown in the 2nd half of our JPT game in August when we were deservedly beaten. He would surely relish the chance to test himself at a higher level with a massively higher wage budget the what he currently has available at Stanley.

 

Either way, I feel keeping Dave in charge long term would be to the detriment to our club in the form of season ticket sales. There is roughly a core of 3000 holders currently - I would expect to see this fall to 2000 if not lower next season - the fans will simply not pay for poor entertainment and lack of effort. This will impact on the playing budget and quality of player available to us, which will see us in an even further decline, poor displays, lack of fans, lack of income, relegation and probably the death of the club. The new stadium is a waste of time if there is no product on the pitch worthy of enticing people to pay for it, as much as fans are fans. It is sad to see many die hards deserting the club, but that is the state we are at.

With regard to yourselves, long term I know you won't be around for ever and the poor state of the club will have an impact then on how much you could receive for a sale; the more attractive the better.

 

I disagree somewhat with your assessment on the local raio in midweek that you don't feel many fans will come no matter how successful the team is - the fans WILL come back eventually - if we were performing well on the pitch we could easily average 5.5k to 6k crowds if the product is worth watching and paying for. As in any business, a poor product = loss of income = closure of business. I know you felt you did wrong sacking Ronnie Moore in this respect, but the guy is an outdated hoofball merchant who relied on 30+ year-olds to form a team - he has done nothing of significance since (currently destroying Rotherham's previously well laid footballing foundations by Mark Robins to wreck their promotion hopes).

 

For all the parties concerned I trust you to do the right thing. I will respect your choice regarding the matter either way as it is ultimately you and the board who have the final say.

 

Thank you for taking the time to read my views.

 

The club needs passion and ambition from top to bottom. I feel you and your fellow board members possess it deep down, lets have a management team that can replicate it out on the pitch.

 

[singe]

Dear Simon,

 

I have sent this email to you because I care deeply about my team and wish to express my thoughts to you, not in any guise to have a 'go' at you personally nor your fellow directors, but simply to air my views.

 

Now I would like to think I am a well educated person in terms of having an appreciation of football in general and the pros and cons of every decision made by chairmen and boards of directors, everyone has their own opinions and views and I always analyse things from both sides and appreciate that in some ways 'the men at the top' can never win the hearts and minds of their fans, in fact this is nigh on certain. Fans will no doubt question the usual assumed 'lack of investment/ambition' but I know you to be deeply passionate about our long term success and agree that while Scunthorpe are in football there is hope for everyone that success can be achieved by not going overboard financially - the fans would take that all day over administration - we are lucky to have you guys in charge who keep sensible yet ambitious heads when making decisions.

 

I appreciate that following the departure of the previous management team, you wished to install someone who would bring a greater level of professionalism and discipline into the club, to which end Dave Penney has undoubtedly achieved.

I can also see that he comes across as a hard working and pleasant individual who is no doubt doing is best for the club.

 

I, like yourself, hate the constant merry-go-round of the football management world and accept there comes a time when a team and club need to firmly back a manger for at least 3 years, as was the case with JS where he built a decent squad of players and established good footballing principles, in order to have any hope of long term success.

 

In this case however, it is not working with Dave in charge.

 

The fans are not disheartened so much by the league position and relegation scrap; this was to be expected in some ways with it being a transition season - it is the way we have performed on the pitch, no matter which players have played. There is seemingly an attitude of 'a point is better than none' when entering games instead of going hell for leather for 90 minutes giving it everything for the win. Martin Gray was quoted as saying in the Advertiser in the build up to the Exeter game 'We have got to win - nothing less is acceptable' - yet post match, Dave appears and states 'A point is a good result'. There appears to be a complete lack of fight and ambition in his tactics and general touchline demeanour - 2-0 down today and he is simply stood with hands in pockets, laughing and joking with his assistant. His tactice have been poor - playing Danny Whitaker, a central midfielder, on the wing when having Colbeck and Milllar available is absolutely baffling.

 

He has made no attempt to connect with the fans in any way. A simple message along the lines of 'I know this season has been poor and performances not pretty to watch, but I am doing my best, know what is required and will endeavour to get it right in the summer' would, if not win over the fans, at least afford him a little respect from the paying public. All managers make poor signings, that is inevitable and the players also take a large slice of blame for their lack of achievement this season, but as in any business the person responsible for their performance takes the ultimate consequences.

 

In this respect I feel it correct that Dave be removed from his duties. The timing of this is incredibly difficult to pinpoint as any disruption could lead to the demise of the team, but I would be ruthless and do it now. I would appoint Lee Duxbury and Tony Philiskirk as a temporary team until may. They would command the respect of the fans and hopefully instill passion and purpose into the team, with Sean Gregan remaining as the Club/Team Captain.

 

Long term (Realistically) I would appoint one of two people:

 

1- JIM GANNON - At Peterborough until may but has as yet not signed a new contract. This is due to the refusal of his wife to move away from the Stockport area. Contact him NOW and gauge his feelings towards coming to us in june. He is a great believer in players having energy, commitment and a high endorser of youth players, key for a club like ours. He did very well on an extremely low budget at Stockport and would hopefully have more money wage wise to play with with us. I know he is outspoken and has his views, but he only speaks his mind and is truly honest and will back anyone who tries their best - that is all fans want to see at the end of the day win or lose; Plays good attacking football with passion and is also loyal by sticking with County until he was made redundant.

 

2- JOHN COLEMAN - At Accrington currently. Has managed to get them within touching distance of the playoffs on what must be literally next to nothing wage budget again playing good football with attacking intent and effort, shown in the 2nd half of our JPT game in August when we were deservedly beaten. He would surely relish the chance to test himself at a higher level with a massively higher wage budget the what he currently has available at Stanley.

 

Either way, I feel keeping Dave in charge long term would be to the detriment to our club in the form of season ticket sales. There is roughly a core of 3000 holders currently - I would expect to see this fall to 2000 if not lower next season - the fans will simply not pay for poor entertainment and lack of effort. This will impact on the playing budget and quality of player available to us, which will see us in an even further decline, poor displays, lack of fans, lack of income, relegation and probably the death of the club. The new stadium is a waste of time if there is no product on the pitch worthy of enticing people to pay for it, as much as fans are fans. It is sad to see many die hards deserting the club, but that is the state we are at.

With regard to yourselves, long term I know you won't be around for ever and the poor state of the club will have an impact then on how much you could receive for a sale; the more attractive the better.

 

I disagree somewhat with your assessment on the local raio in midweek that you don't feel many fans will come no matter how successful the team is - the fans WILL come back eventually - if we were performing well on the pitch we could easily average 5.5k to 6k crowds if the product is worth watching and paying for. As in any business, a poor product = loss of income = closure of business. I know you felt you did wrong sacking Ronnie Moore in this respect, but the guy is an outdated hoofball merchant who relied on 30+ year-olds to form a team - he has done nothing of significance since (currently destroying Rotherham's previously well laid footballing foundations by Mark Robins to wreck their promotion hopes).

 

For all the parties concerned I trust you to do the right thing. I will respect your choice regarding the matter either way as it is ultimately you and the board who have the final say.

 

Thank you for taking the time to read my views.

 

The club needs passion and ambition from top to bottom. I feel you and your fellow board members possess it deep down, lets have a management team that can replicate it out on the pitch.

I think that is a very good email, and hats off for putting a good deal of thought and acknowledgement of what the TTA are doing.

But I fear it loses a little , because of the suggestions of manager are not really realistic. Higher clubs with bigger budgets will be sounding out Gannon, and he has a history of antagonism with Directors. We may have sounded him out in the past, he may have a post lined up already come May.

Also Coleman has been manager of Accrington Stanley for 11 years, part of his success is being there so long. He will make a good step for his next move, and Oldham is not it. A bit like Joe Royle going to Barnsley from us. A step up in terms of attedance and budget but no great shakes.

But other than that, and excellent email.

And I speak as a Penney inner till today.

[laticsfanatic100]

an excellent and realistic view of our current situation!!!! you could have mentioned the apathy to the new ground however but apart from that an excellent reflection

[dw35]

cant agree anymore mate!

[shefflatic]

an excellent and realistic view of our current situation!!!! you could have mentioned the apathy to the new ground however but apart from that an excellent reflection

 

Don't want to move to Failsworth as much as the next person but we need a new ground be it at BP or wherever (and it is JUST on the edge of oldham/Chadderton boundary), it is their decision and an argument for another day, pretty irrelevant to the DP saga at present so thought i'd leave it out.

[Steve_R]

I may be wrong but wasn't it you (Sheff Latic) who wrote a letter to Penney at the start of the season pledging undying support?

[shefflatic]

I may be wrong but wasn't it you (Sheff Latic) who wrote a letter to Penney at the start of the season pledging undying support?

 

 

It was me. It wasn't ever stated in that letter that he had my unwavering support.

 

At the time he was being barracked by the fans only 2 months into a new job, I wanted to defend him as at the time and up until 4 weeks or so ago I thought he could turn it around and that the criticism was unfair.

 

Unfortunately things have gone from bad to worse and I honestly dont think he has what it takes nor can current team displays and collective managment and team efforts be defended, as much as I want to see him do well. I dont think another year of his contract and another season would change things, sadly.

 

 

[real]

I've attempted to get to the key criticisms you have made of penny:-

 

yet post match, Dave appears and states 'A point is a good result'. - Little else he could say really, and it wasn't all of what he said.

 

There appears to be a complete lack of fight and ambition in his tactics and general touchline demeanour - 2-0 down today and he is simply stood with hands in pockets, laughing and joking with his assistant. Other managers have been criticised for shouting and screaming - "it's no use shouting at them, it won't help" was the line. Was shez criticised for shouting or lack of it? I can't honestly recall, and I can't be bothered checking, but he came in for similar critiques, as did moore.

 

His tactice have been poor - playing Danny Whitaker, a central midfielder, on the wing when having Colbeck and Milllar available is absolutely baffling. Colbeck has been heavily criticised by many many fans and is a millstone around penny's neck for them. Millar has played less than half a game and you want to pin your hopes on him?

 

He has made no attempt to connect with the fans in any way. A simple message along the lines of 'I know this season has been poor and performances not pretty to watch, but I am doing my best, know what is required and will endeavour to get it right in the summer' That sort of statement would be treated with derision by many; Shez was also given the same level of criticism. So was moore.

 

So, 3 managers, all seem to get the same type of stick from some of the fans. What's the common factor? Maybe the fans who like to chant for managers heads have got what they wanted - no decent manager will come and we get what we can get?

 

RM finished 10th - hounded out by fans

Shez finished 8th, 10th, sacked at 8th - hounded out by the fans

Now we've got a manager who has us at 17th. The "fans" weren't happy at 10th etc, so inevitably they are not happy at 17th, they can start it all over again, see another manager out and another new one in. I wonder what will be happening come March 2011?

[aliofashy]

I've attempted to get to the key criticisms you have made of penny:-

 

 

 

So, 3 managers, all seem to get the same type of stick from some of the fans. What's the common factor? Maybe the fans who like to chant for managers heads have got what they wanted - no decent manager will come and we get what we can get?

 

RM finished 10th - hounded out by fans

Shez finished 8th, 10th, sacked at 8th - hounded out by the fans

Now we've got a manager who has us at 17th. The "fans" weren't happy at 10th etc, so inevitably they are not happy at 17th, they can start it all over again, see another manager out and another new one in. I wonder what will be happening come March 2011?

Quite right, how many managers have to be hounded out by our fans, this season is and always has ben a transitional season and no matter if we had been tenth at this stage, Penney would have been hounded by the boo boys

[beag_teeets]

March 2011? Try November 2010, there will be shouts for whoever is in the manager's seat.

[Senor_Coconut]

Jesus, imagine the fun Gannon would have with our fans if we don't win every game playing Barca style football.

[Senor_Coconut]

March 2011? Try November 2010, there will be shouts for whoever is in the manager's seat.

 

 

 

That long? It will be 'get that stupid paddy or thick scouser out ' within a month if we didn't start off well.

[Matt]

What a load of :censored:e.

[Gentleman]

What a load of :censored:e.

 

[slurms mckenzie]

Get Ritchie back. Gannon and the other bloke.

[BigfinLatic]

What a load of :censored:e.

 

Exactly.

 

How the could that even for a second be considered constructive? Do you honestly think this is going to ping-pong into TTA's inbox and cause a sudden moment of revelation?

 

Bollocks. The problems are more than evident. I'm sure TTA are in avery difficult place at the moment, and I'm sure that all they need this morning is an email stating opinionated self important bilge.

[BP1960]

I've attempted to get to the key criticisms you have made of penny:-

 

 

 

So, 3 managers, all seem to get the same type of stick from some of the fans. What's the common factor? Maybe the fans who like to chant for managers heads have got what they wanted - no decent manager will come and we get what we can get?

 

RM finished 10th - hounded out by fans

Shez finished 8th, 10th, sacked at 8th - hounded out by the fans

Now we've got a manager who has us at 17th. The "fans" weren't happy at 10th etc, so inevitably they are not happy at 17th, they can start it all over again, see another manager out and another new one in. I wonder what will be happening come March 2011?

 

TTAs.

[oafc0000]

an email stating opinionated self important bilge.

 

Either way, he is entitled to his opinion...

Edited March 21, 2010 by oafc0000

[oafc0000]

TTAs.

 

Harsh and to the point...

[OldhamSheridan]

Either way, he is entitled to his opinion...

Indeed, but as they say: The average person thinks he isn't.

[real]

TTAs.

 

Very true. 2 common factors - fans hounding the manager out and TTA failing to provide the right type of support/reaction to events under the managers control.

 

TTAs reaction to fan protests has added to the problems at the club and they need to start taking a higher level view that listening to some of the fans. Yesterday proved that point in the supportive chants to the players. That they didn't re-appear at 0-2 wasn't because they had changed their view to "penney out" as some have suggested, but just that there is no point at 0-2 in bothering with it.

 

 

A point to the "outers" - chanting richie songs and sheez songs does NOT support the team. That is mostly what the I block stick to though.

Edited March 21, 2010 by real

[BigfinLatic]

Either way, he is entitled to his opinion...

 

Very true. This is a messageboard, say what you want on here. However It bemuses me that someone could be so full of themselves that they think this is such a revelation to send to our clubs owners. Debate it on here, enjoy yourselves, but to think the TTA dont know of every damn thing that is said in here is just brilliant. Well done.

 

This is the best line:

 

For all the parties concerned I trust you to do the right thing. I will respect your choice regarding the matter either way as it is ultimately you and the board who have the final say.

 

Ok. Keep dave Penney. Would he be happy, even though he respects TTA so muvh and they have the final say? No, would he . The fact it is evn considered remotely constructive is just laughable.

 

Anyway... as you were...

[shefflatic]

Very true. This is a messageboard, say what you want on here. However It bemuses me that someone could be so full of themselves that they think this is such a revelation to send to our clubs owners. Debate it on here, enjoy yourselves, but to think the TTA dont know of every damn thing that is said in here is just brilliant. Well done.

 

This is the best line:

 

 

 

Ok. Keep dave Penney. Would he be happy, even though he respects TTA so muvh and they have the final say? No, would he . The fact it is evn considered remotely constructive is just laughable.

 

Anyway... as you were...

 

It is constructive in the sense that it is not a 'ranting and raving' 'this and that' message, it is fairly written and sums up how I and many other fans feel. I know he will no doubt ignore it and think nothing of it, that is fine as he is purely entitled to do so, I just wanted to try and make the key points of the message, i.e. what many fans are thinking and why, heard and this is my own fair and non-agressive way of doing so. If the owners stick with Dave then so be it, nothing I or anyone else can do about it.

 

Who the hell do you think you are telling me what I can and can't do?? By all means read it, criticise it and not agree with what I have said, but don't you dare tell me that I'm not allowed to send an email.

Would you react to it as 'self important bilge' if I sent the same email regarding my views and opinions on the move to Failsworth? No you :censored:ing wouldn't!!

 

Oh, and as it happens a number of people early on in the thread agree with me having read it and it must therefore coincide with their thoughts on the situation (just look at the number not renewing season tickets next year) - no one said you had to agree.

 

The amount of pr1cks on here with their own laws of the land who are 'in with the lads' is worryingly laughable.

 

I have a right to, within reason and in a non threatening manner, communicate my thoughts to the club just like anyone would do in any other business if there were problems with a company's products that they aren't happy with.

You at the very least should respect my right to an opinion, but you aren't man enough to even do that are you, a sad enditement of the world we live in.

Edited March 21, 2010 by shefflatic

[Lookers_Carl]

I have a right to, within reason and in a non threatening manner, communicate my thoughts to the club just like anyone would do in any other business if there were problems with a company's products that they aren't happy with.

 

+1

 

Although if I may, a bit of constructive criticism.

 

Only thing I would disagree with is the bit where you say "this is who I would appoint". Fair play by the way for not just running off a list of ex players held in high regard but I would cut that bit out all together, maybe replace it with the key qualities you as a latics fan, would like to see from a manager of this club and the team he chooses to field

[jsslatic]

It is constructive in the sense that it is not a 'ranting and raving' 'this and that' message, it is fairly written and sums up how I and many other fans feel. I know he will no doubt ignore it and think nothing of it, that is fine as he is purely entitled to do so, I just wanted to try and make the key points of the message, i.e. what many fans are thinking and why, heard and this is my own fair and non-agressive way of doing so. If the owners stick with Dave then so be it, nothing I or anyone else can do about it.

 

Who the hell do you think you are telling me what I can and can't do?? By all means read it, criticise it and not agree with what I have said, but don't you dare tell me that I'm not allowed to send an email.

Would you react to it as 'self important bilge' if I sent the same email regarding my views and opinions on the move to Failsworth? No you :censored:ing wouldn't!!

 

Oh, and as it happens a number of people early on in the thread agree with me having read it and it must therefore coincide with their thoughts on the situation (just look at the number not renewing season tickets next year) - no one said you had to agree.

 

The amount of pr1cks on here with their own laws of the land who are 'in with the lads' is worryingly laughable.

 

I have a right to, within reason and in a non threatening manner, communicate my thoughts to the club just like anyone would do in any other business if there were problems with a company's products that they aren't happy with.

You at the very least should respect my right to an opinion, but you aren't man enough to even do that are you, a sad enditement of the world we live in.

 

I love how this starts off relatively calmly and then just turns into an abusive rant. Not so 'constructive' now.

 

I'll let BigFin fight his own battles but all I'll say is something 'constructive' generally is meant that it is helping towards a better goal. For a lot of people, sacking Penney would be a mistake and would effectively relegate us (and obviously for others, keeping him would be). So just because your email was written calmly doesn't mean it's constructive, it's just a slightly more articulate version of 'get out of our club you s*** Yorkshire barsteward'. It's arguably even more destructive because it has the facade of reason about it, even though it's a load of rubbish.