Dave_Og Posted March 21, 2010 Share Posted March 21, 2010 It's clear to me that there is little point in worrying about the short term future of the club. Relegation - so what? There needs to be some serious long term thinking here and while the new stadium (wherever) is obviously key to that it's a lot more complex than that; there simply has to be some way of reconnecting the club to the community otherwise the whole thing will just be a pit stop on the way to the knackers yard. What I would like to see is the club make some commitments that make it stand out from the lower dvision crowd; not one off gestures, not special deals for a match at Christmas but something that captures imagination and makes people think that this club is a little different from others - in a good way! One thing to start off: Lets "just say no" to the loan system. It's a farce - destroys fan/player relationships, denies youngsters a chance and, frankly, has contributed so little to the club over the last few years that we may very well be better off without it anyway. Doubtless some will say that it is cutting off a nose to spite the face but, as I say, look at the longer term. It could provide a boost to the youth system, develop players quicker and even encourage promising youngsters to come to the club in the expectation that they will get a chance - as used to be the case. Any more? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hollandspies Posted March 21, 2010 Share Posted March 21, 2010 It's clear to me that there is little point in worrying about the short term future of the club. Relegation - so what? There needs to be some serious long term thinking here and while the new stadium (wherever) is obviously key to that it's a lot more complex than that; there simply has to be some way of reconnecting the club to the community otherwise the whole thing will just be a pit stop on the way to the knackers yard. What I would like to see is the club make some commitments that make it stand out from the lower dvision crowd; not one off gestures, not special deals for a match at Christmas but something that captures imagination and makes people think that this club is a little different from others - in a good way! One thing to start off: Lets "just say no" to the loan system. It's a farce - destroys fan/player relationships, denies youngsters a chance and, frankly, has contributed so little to the club over the last few years that we may very well be better off without it anyway. Doubtless some will say that it is cutting off a nose to spite the face but, as I say, look at the longer term. It could provide a boost to the youth system, develop players quicker and even encourage promising youngsters to come to the club in the expectation that they will get a chance - as used to be the case. Avoiding relegation is the ONLY priority for me at the moment.....I will consider other issues once our Div 1 Status is guaranteed but for now everyone associated with the club needs to focus on staying up. Any more? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted March 21, 2010 Author Share Posted March 21, 2010 We've avoided relegation for the last 14 years - look where that's got us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hollandspies Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 We've avoided relegation for the last 14 years - look where that's got us. Done well then haven't we and we need to do it again because with crowds around the 3000 mark staying in Div 1 is success really isn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singe Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 Bit early to be sure, but the Roughyeds seem to have started well this year by investing in some players with burning desire and some local lads proud for the team I think Dave Penney has done well this year blooding some of the youngsters, but I think thry need more time. Time on the pitch and time to be blooded in. Depsite what people say, it has not worked for Crewe, Dario Gradi was clearly responsible for their position, but that may be because they sold them on rather than playing their heart out for Crewe. Not sure Youths is radcial in this day and age, but it could set us apart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beag_teeets Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 Lets "just say no" to the loan system. It's a farce - destroys fan/player relationships, denies youngsters a chance and, frankly, has contributed so little to the club over the last few years that we may very well be better off without it anyway. Didn't Gregan come in on loan? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edhunteruk Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 Didn't Gregan come in on loan? yes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlossopLatic Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 I agree I don't think the loan system works why we have pished about with it this season when it let us down so badly last season as all that happens is the players come in are usually unfit/crap/have one eye on getting themselves fit for their current club and then fail miserably safe in the knowledge that the mess they leave will have to be dealt with by someone else. The loan system can often work but not to the levels we use it at this is something that the new football league chairman whoever that maybe needs to look into becasue its not benefitting football at this level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoytonBlueLad Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 It's crap. We sign crap. We paid a decent loan fee for Beckett. I'd say 90% have failed to improve the team in any way at all in the past few seasons. Honourable mentions to Lee Grant and Leon Clarke. There was all the talk of a balanced squad with a few choice loans to prevent a similar situation to last year. Only it's been worse. It's certainly something that again needs to be reviewed. Quite why we seem to sign a stack and they turn out hopeless I don't know. I am sure every club has some failures in the loan market but our rate has to be incredibly high. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusoe Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 (edited) A couple of posts I made recently on this subject: While I'm not a massive fan of an endless parade of loan signings, it's harsh on DP to imply he was churning through them and ignoring players already at the club. Many of the loan signings have been completely necessary (well, given transfer windows or the lack of funds to sign permanently): :censored: - cover for Worthington and Purdie's injuries Flahavan - needed to cover Brill's loss of form Sheehan - needed to cover Jacobson and Black's injuries Hills - less necessary (why couldn't we extend Sheehan's loan?), but needed to provide more cover after Sheehan left Heffernan - needed given desperate lack of firepower Goodwin - given he's been a fixture since arriving who is he unfairly keeping out of the team? Timar - possibly less necessary, but needed to shore up the defence (was Hazell suspended at the time?) Price - see Heffernan (and given Heffernan's/Donny's reluctance to extend) I'm sure some of these are more arguable, but who in our reserves was going to fit all of these roles? And on the subject of why we can't get more reliable loan signings: ...we're damned if we do and damned if we don't. If we score youngsters in the hope they'll turn out good we're usually disappointed (Glombard, Robertson, Grabban, Beavers, Cooper, Zola, etc) and get complaints about not signing proven strikers - who often also disappoint (Windass, Price, Burgess, Constantine, Kabba, Byfield, etc). Good up and coming forwards by their very nature are few and far between and hard to get on loan - I reckon Brandy and Beckford are the exceptions, not most clubs' experience. I think there's risk inherent in loan signings - they're not guaranteed to do well. If they were in superb form they wouldn't be available for loan, and they have to settle into a new team, possibly new tactics and learn new teammates' abilities in a very short term. Edited March 22, 2010 by Crusoe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlossopLatic Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 A couple of posts I made recently on this subject: And on the subject of why we can't get more reliable loan signings: You do have to wonder why we signed all those strikers on loan and never gave Chris O'grady the chance thats my major bug bear with how badly we have played the loan market last season it cost sheridan his job and Penney is likely to go the same way if we carry on with it as so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusoe Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 We'll never know whether O'Grady could have been a success, but I don't think we'd ever have given him a proper run in the team — we've been looking for quick fixes all season and he was already under pressure after failing to score in his few appearances last season. It could be that Parker's signing (which I'll openly admit I was not against at the time) hurt us even more than just his lack of goals, it stopped us from giving players like O'Grady a proper chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cardiffexile Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 I agree totally with limiting the amount of loan signings as it is a farce seeing a different team every other week. I would make exceptions for injuries, if there are no alternatives in the development squad/youth system. Also if there is a gem of a player that we could get for a season, this would also be worthwhile, as long as this was not at the expense of a promising player in our own youth. Additionally i would like to see local lads (esp those that have come through the youth) ala taylor, smalley etc.. playing. If we could get the majority of the team as local lads i would be more inclined to support the team more as it would feel more like my team and hopefully these players are not looking as oldham as a stepping stone to a better club, but would be aiming to play in a higher division with oldham. I for one would prefer to see the likes of rickers, mcniven twins, allot playing for us (as they have an affinity with the club) rather than the parkers, worthingtons, Holdsworth (im not saying these shouldnt play for us, but the amount of turnover of players is destroying the soul of the club). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafcprozac Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 It's clear to me that there is little point in worrying about the short term future of the club. Relegation - so what? There needs to be some serious long term thinking here and while the new stadium (wherever) is obviously key to that it's a lot more complex than that; there simply has to be some way of reconnecting the club to the community otherwise the whole thing will just be a pit stop on the way to the knackers yard. What I would like to see is the club make some commitments that make it stand out from the lower dvision crowd; not one off gestures, not special deals for a match at Christmas but something that captures imagination and makes people think that this club is a little different from others - in a good way! One thing to start off: Lets "just say no" to the loan system. It's a farce - destroys fan/player relationships, denies youngsters a chance and, frankly, has contributed so little to the club over the last few years that we may very well be better off without it anyway. Doubtless some will say that it is cutting off a nose to spite the face but, as I say, look at the longer term. It could provide a boost to the youth system, develop players quicker and even encourage promising youngsters to come to the club in the expectation that they will get a chance - as used to be the case.Any more? In an nutshell, and what killed off our great start last season pissing about with Jones and Ormerod...I would have preferred us to sign the steady if unspectacular Byrne.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downender2 Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 Any more? I reckon we should kick off half an hour before the opposition come out of the changing rooms... how's that grab you... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lookers_Carl Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 I personally think the old system worked better, which limited how many players you were allowed to sign on loan in a season (think it was four long term eight short term?) Have no issues with bringing in a loan player, short or long term, so long as they are considerably better, or have enough extra talent to justify us dipping into the loan market as opposed to giving our own players a chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted March 22, 2010 Author Share Posted March 22, 2010 There has been talk about some players not being motivated. Let's look at one; Alessandra. He bangs in a hat-trick vs Scunthorpe last season and barely got another kick. In the meantime he sat kicking his heels on the bench, woitjout even reserve games to play, while watching the likes of Windass, Ormerod, Kabba etc. come in and add nothing to the side. And we wonder why he seemed to struggle... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 We need to play the system as it is. I'd just like to see us do it well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusoe Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 To be fair Dave, he played another 22 games after that match. It's true he didn't get an extended run in the team, but with one more goal from another six starts and 16 sub appearances (my maths may be one out — it could be five and 17) it's a stretch to say he barely got another kick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luis Enrique Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 dave, I could not agree more. of all the many things wrong at the club, the loan system is the one that does the most damage to my affinity with the team. I'm sure there are fans up & down the country that feel the same way. I often feel I know some of the opposition players better than I know my own team. it's killing the game & the experience for me. the idea of oldham becoming a club that takes risks & is prepared to try something different to the rest of the pack (whether this or something else) makes them instantly more interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted March 22, 2010 Author Share Posted March 22, 2010 This wasn't supposed to be just an anti loan system thread - just a do something different to other clubs thread. Even so I'd like to see the following stats if anyone has them. Since we came down to this division how many players have: played for the first team each season? played for the club on loan? And most importantly, although I don't suppose they will be available, how much have we paid in loan fees and wages? I would imagine that the number would not be insignificant and, frankly, most of it has been wasted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted March 22, 2010 Author Share Posted March 22, 2010 We need to play the system as it is. I'd just like to see us do it well. But even if we do thdere is no long term in it. Just sticks platers on wounds - ask Hereford who got promoted wkith a large cvomtingent of long term loans and went straight back down again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 But even if we do thdere is no long term in it. Just sticks platers on wounds - ask Hereford who got promoted wkith a large cvomtingent of long term loans and went straight back down again. Well I'd take that option tomorrow. I just think that with the current way things are we can't possibly compete against the big spenders who have second 11s the could give us a push without trying to plug some holes and bring a bit of quality in from time to time. I don't think we would be half as unhappy with loans if most of the recent ones hadn't been :censored:e. But I agree, in an ideal world it would be otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 dave, I could not agree more. of all the many things wrong at the club, the loan system is the one that does the most damage to my affinity with the team. I'm sure there are fans up & down the country that feel the same way. I often feel I know some of the opposition players better than I know my own team. it's killing the game & the experience for me. the idea of oldham becoming a club that takes risks & is prepared to try something different to the rest of the pack (whether this or something else) makes them instantly more interesting. I was speaking to a Yeovil fan where they have 7 players on loan, he thinks it's farcical too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobOAFC Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 Any more? I reckon we should kick off half an hour before the opposition come out of the changing rooms... how's that grab you... We still wont score Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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