oafc0000 Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 We are now at the point where a religious person has faith in something that they cannot prove exists. I wager we're both very similar - maybe even both Skeptics (with a K) and Atheists , however I just believe in one less deity than you. Oh I believe in god... A few things in my life have strengthened that view point... Religion I am a little more relaxed over... I wouldn't be surprised at all to find we are all trying to please the same entity... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 You havent attempted to answer the key question once. Obviously because you are afraid of what the answer might be. I have restated it several times now. There's no way you havent understood it. I did answer it... You just don't like the answers... I showed how science does that very thing... In some instances I believe things that can not yet be proven... Believing in god tells you that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 Oh I believe in god... A few things in my life have strengthened that view point... Religion I am a little more relaxed over... I wouldn't be surprised at all to find we are all trying to please the same entity... It's been a good debate, thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackey Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 So you wasn't talking about the foundations or do you have little understanding of history ? You might want to look at the history of Christianity... For arguments sake lets take the start of Christianity at 0 AD... When was the crusades ? EDIT: had to look it up to double check... 1095 to 1291... Foundations ? Indeed. A weak example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilStarbucksSilkySkills Posted May 21, 2010 Author Share Posted May 21, 2010 There's also no proof that there isn't one either. There doesn't have to be. Very few people run around claiming there isn't one. And the ones that are, are being very silly. All any atheist has to do to win an argument is show that there is no good reason to believe in a god. Because that is all the atheist position is. There isn't any proof either that fairies don't exist, nor leprecauns, nor UFOs, nor the loch ness monster. Doesn't mean we are justified in believing in them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tangerinedreams Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 Read back. That's an appeal to ignorance. The statement "We have no evidence that God doesn't exist, therefore he must exist." is a logical fallacy. Point taken, I missed that one. I'm on my bike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 Indeed. A weak example. Christianity started with Jesus... He brought a message of peace and love. Whatever people did with it after that is down to people... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 Point taken, I missed that one. I'm on my bike. No! hang about, it's a good debate... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilStarbucksSilkySkills Posted May 21, 2010 Author Share Posted May 21, 2010 I did answer it... You just don't like the answers... I showed how science does that very thing... In some instances I believe things that can not yet be proven... Believing in god tells you that... Well you didn't show science doing that at all. But regardless How do you decide what you believe exists before the evidence arrives, and what you don't believe exists? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 How do you decide what you believe exists before the evidence arrives, and what you don't believe exists? I ain't writing a bloody open ended essay on how I come to reason is something exists or not... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 There doesn't have to be. Very few people run around claiming there isn't one. And the ones that are, are being very silly. All any atheist has to do to win an argument is show that there is no good reason to believe in a god. Because that is all the atheist position is. There isn't any proof either that fairies don't exist, nor leprecauns, nor UFOs, nor the loch ness monster. Doesn't mean we are justified in believing in them. Look, we've managed to get him to say that he can't prove the existence of God - there isn't one, and anybody with anything about them would agree. He still has the belief and I respect that. So for me the debate has come to a close. You cannot drag someone away from belief. You have to respect their position, call a close to the proceedings, shake hands and go about your day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackey Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 We seem to be drawing to a close. So I'll just add: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemma06 Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 There doesn't have to be. Very few people run around claiming there isn't one. And the ones that are, are being very silly. All any atheist has to do to win an argument is show that there is no good reason to believe in a god. Because that is all the atheist position is. There isn't any proof either that fairies don't exist, nor leprecauns, nor UFOs, nor the loch ness monster. Doesn't mean we are justified in believing in them. What justification is needed to believe in something? If someone wants to believe in something then thats their decision, they do not need anyone elses approval to do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentleman Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 We seem to be drawing to a close. So I'll just add: Image Is that Mo? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 Is that Mo? No... This is Mo: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 Look, we've managed to get him to say that he can't prove the existence of God - there isn't one, and anybody with anything about them would agree. He still has the belief and I respect that. So for me the debate has come to a close. You cannot drag someone away from belief. You have to respect their position, call a close to the proceedings, shake hands and go about your day. ...and can I add it has been very interesting. Thanks to all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tangerinedreams Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 (edited) No! hang about, it's a good debate... Edit: case closed. have a good day Edited May 21, 2010 by tangerinedreams Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilStarbucksSilkySkills Posted May 21, 2010 Author Share Posted May 21, 2010 Look, we've managed to get him to say that he can't prove the existence of God - there isn't one, and anybody with anything about them would agree. He still has the belief and I respect that. So for me the debate has come to a close. You cannot drag someone away from belief. You have to respect their position, call a close to the proceedings, shake hands and go about your day. I'm not trying to drag him away from his belief, nor do I expect to. These things take time anyway (even if that was my goal) I'm merely fascinated by the thought processes that go on in the mind of the believer. With that I will always be driven to ask questions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 I'm not trying to drag him away from his belief, nor do I expect to. These things take time anyway (even if that was my goal) I'm merely fascinated by the thought processes that go on in the mind of the believer. With that I will always be driven to ask questions. Okay, however don't be too upset when the results don't match expectations! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilStarbucksSilkySkills Posted May 21, 2010 Author Share Posted May 21, 2010 What justification is needed to believe in something? If someone wants to believe in something then thats their decision, they do not need anyone elses approval to do so. And I never suggested he did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilStarbucksSilkySkills Posted May 21, 2010 Author Share Posted May 21, 2010 Okay, however don't be too upset when the results don't match expectations! I have no expectations beyond wanting people to answer questions honestly. Some people can be frustrating in that regard though. Anyway. Good debate. I'm off to the gym. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 I have no expectations beyond wanting people to answer questions honestly. I always answer honestly... I careful to avoid being led or answering loaded questions which end in misrepresentation... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldhamSheridan Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 Personally I have a belief in a creator. If someone wishes to call this entity 'God' then so be it. But at some point there had to be a creation, as opposed to nothing. Science says the big bang theory. But what created the universe in its original condition?People can debate what caused this and I hesitate to call it a God due to the religious connotations that go with it, but removing religion, and thinking in the finest condition of the word, then maybe that is the case. As for religion, it is just the implications of power hungry men to try and gain at the expense of the weak. If it has moved on from that to a moral compass or social scene, then fair enough - each to their own. But I have little doubt over its beginnings in my mind. No idea whatthehellist this makes me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackey Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 Personally I have a belief in a creator. If someone wishes to call this entity 'God' then so be it. But at some point there had to be a creation, as opposed to nothing. Science says the big bang theory. But what created the universe in its original condition?People can debate what caused this and I hesitate to call it a God due to the religious connotations that go with it, but removing religion, and thinking in the finest condition of the word, then maybe that is the case. As for religion, it is just the implications of power hungry men to try and gain at the expense of the weak. If it has moved on from that to a moral compass or social scene, then fair enough - each to their own. But I have little doubt over its beginnings in my mind. No idea whatthehellist this makes me. You pose the easiest to debunk theory there is. You say you can't accept the big bang as something had to be there before? Your solution is a sentient being - a creator. What created the creator? My work here is done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 (edited) What created the creator? My work here is done. You think by posing the timeless question your work here is done ? Interesting... I would say the work has only just started... Edited May 21, 2010 by oafc0000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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