RobOAFC Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 FIFA to stop loans outside of transfer windows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 FIFA to stop loans outside of transfer windows. Couldn't disagree more. Far more damaging to premier clubs who can't have 60 man squads and loan them all out. Use the kids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafcprozac Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Couldn't disagree more. Far more damaging to premier clubs who can't have 60 man squads and loan them all out. Use the kids. Good, maybe we'll be able to identify with our club again instead of being a haven for mercenaries, has beens and never will be's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusoe Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Hear hear. Another small step towards clubs being sensibly run, local, self-supporting organisations. Of course this will only really work if rules on youth signings are changed so that bigger clubs can't poach young players from anywhere they like and without reasonable compensation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_mighty_bosh Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Not sure what to think about this, yes it would be great to have a club of players with full-time contracts with us to improve the strength of our identity rather than looking for constant short-term fixes to make up the squad, but I can't imagine that lower league clubs would be able to afford these type of squads without the help of loans. It certainly doesn't benefit PL clubs who are looking to develop their young prospects but I can't bring myself to shed a tear for them, in fact it might encourage some youngsters to stay and develop at their first clubs. Although the EPPP idea for academies certainly doesn't help this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forte_Baby Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 To be fair it was only a matter of time. When the transfer window was first brought in Lower league clus where suffering from the ITV digital problems. The Football league has done everything in there power to keep it going. While other countries and leagues have turned round and asked why the Football League can do it but others are not allowed to. Guess that means clubs must dip into there youth system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldhamSheridan Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Contravenes European law, like the transfer window, on restriction of trade. If FIFA/UEFA continues to push this it will break. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lookers_Carl Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 To be fair it was only a matter of time. When the transfer window was first brought in Lower league clus where suffering from the ITV digital problems. The Football league has done everything in there power to keep it going. While other countries and leagues have turned round and asked why the Football League can do it but others are not allowed to. Guess that means clubs must dip into there youth system. What about the clubs who don't have a youth system? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsslatic Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Feel the most dangerous situation here is a side being effectively fooked because they get a couple of goalkeepers injuries and end up with a 16 year old in goal until the transfer window opens. Will also create a situation in which the deadline day panic buys become panic loans and sides are lumbered with players they don't want skulking around the reserves because they'd signed a load 'just in case'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slystallone Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Not sure what to think about this, yes it would be great to have a club of players with full-time contracts with us to improve the strength of our identity rather than looking for constant short-term fixes to make up the squad, but I can't imagine that lower league clubs would be able to afford these type of squads without the help of loans. It certainly doesn't benefit PL clubs who are looking to develop their young prospects but I can't bring myself to shed a tear for them, in fact it might encourage some youngsters to stay and develop at their first clubs. Although the EPPP idea for academies certainly doesn't help this. Exactly Bosh. I'm probably 50-50 with it. I think that; correctly used (and that is the key), the current loan system is critical to lower league clubs to simply have a squad / team. With the sensible acquisition of 3 or 4 long-term loans, you can see the benefits surely? This season with Robbie Simpson jumps right out. By getting him here to the club on loan; he was able to see what it was like by experiencing it first-hand. He's now joined us full time. Would that have happened had we just merely tried to sign him pre-season or in Jan; having to rely on PD selling the club to him? I doubt it. The other side is what others have said - too many loanees (we're not in that boat this season; or last to be honest - PD hasn't overdone it IMO) and you begin to lose touch the side; with a revolving door of payers who come in for a month at a time and then disappear again. There is also the debate that is restricts the development of youth prospects also - & I guess it could be argued that the likes of Tarky, Mellor, Winchester (+ Millar and the rest maybe?) might have featured a heck of a lot more were it not for the loans for Nathan Clarke, Tom Adeyemi, Luca Scapuzzi & Robbie Simpson? If it's an even playing field and all the clubs are in the same boat - the changes should even out. You're always going to have the "have's" & the "have not's" in terms of finance; so squad depth & quality between various sides is always going to be imbalanced - but at least it'll stop the likes of Hudds & Preston from dipping into the loan market every time one of their 1st choice breaks a toe-nail. As always for a club like us, the future has to be home-grown talent mixed with bargain buys…….so maybe this planned move will increase again our already solid enough youth-to-first team production line?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lookers_Carl Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Good, maybe we'll be able to identify with our club again instead of being a haven for mercenaries, has beens and never will be's. Nice sentiment but I think the harsh reality is lower league clubs will be hit and hit badly. The average wage a club will be able to offer could possibly go down again as they will have to stretch their budget to maintain a 22 man squad, which would basically mean Dickovs quality over quantity approach could go right up the :censored:pan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 (edited) Contravenes European law, like the transfer window, on restriction of trade. If FIFA/UEFA continues to push this it will break. So European law is openly being broken. Edited February 8, 2012 by BP1960 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 (edited) I am not in favour of the present loan system, if a player is good you probably won't keep him for long, if he is no good you don't want him to stay anyway. The best way to build a team is with permanent signings (2 year deals if possible),the manager then stands or falls by them. Also forget agents offering unseen players, bring back old fashioned scouting. Edited February 8, 2012 by BP1960 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 What about the clubs who don't have a youth system? Make having one a condition of being in the Football League. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lookers_Carl Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Make having one a condition of being in the Football League. What if they can't afford to set one up, or their not in a position to set one up before 2014? I fully agree with the sentiment of sensibly run clubs bringing through their young players instead of seeing a new team of loanees playing season after season, but in practice this will hit football league clubs hard, some very hard. With alot of luck, maybe even some more talented younger players may end up signing on for our youth system instead of the likes of City and United if it means that they will have more of a chance of getting first team football as opposed to being cast out into the wilderness at the expense of city's latest 20million quid bench warmer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 (edited) What if they can't afford to set one up, or their not in a position to set one up before 2014? I fully agree with the sentiment of sensibly run clubs bringing through their young players instead of seeing a new team of loanees playing season after season, but in practice this will hit football league clubs hard, some very hard. With alot of luck, maybe even some more talented younger players may end up signing on for our youth system instead of the likes of City and United if it means that they will have more of a chance of getting first team football as opposed to being cast out into the wilderness at the expense of city's latest 20million quid bench warmer? Yes indeed, I can see Premier and Championship cast offs offered 6 or 12 month deals with lower division clubs as a way of life. Edited February 8, 2012 by BP1960 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 What if they can't afford to set one up, or their not in a position to set one up before 2014? Some transitional arranegemnet sintroduced over a period of time woudl be sensible but overall it is blindingly obviosu tha the curretn structure of lower league football is not viavble in the long term and continual;y sticking plasters on the equivalent of broken legs just cannot go on for ever. Lurching from one crisis to another does nothing to make the business of football clubs (and they are businesses albeit unusual ones) viable and stable while it alienates supporters due to the drip, drip, drip factor of ongoing bad news. I don't know what the long term solutions are. Some would not appeal to me personally, such as regionalisation, but I think I'd rather have that than the current situation which just eats away at any reamining vestgiges of optimism and, to be honest, supporting Latics has always been the triumph of optimisim over reality. Take away optimism altogether and reality has to be faced - it's not a pretty sight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeylandLatic Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 The real problem of this comes from the new rules about fees for young players. Not sure when that officially comes in but if Premier League clubs can hoover up 20 of the best young players in the country for £1m as has been agreed, teams like us aren't going to have any decent youth prospects to fall back on when the windows shut because they'll all be at Prem clubs rotting away. I know people are hoping this will encourage youngsters to stay at their first club for first team oppotunities but from the young players point of view has anythign really changed? They never really had better than a cat in hell's chance of gaining first team experience before and aprt from the oppotunity to to be brought in on loan as an emergency signing they still have the chance to go out on short term or long term at the windows. As has been the case for years, kids will happily g to the big clubs as soon as the chance arises and either gamble that they're good enough (which I, being an optomist of course, actually think most of them arrogantly believe is the case because of the 'big' fee normally involved) or accept the hugely inflated pay packet and rot in the reserves until it's time to move on, still with the smallest of chances they could break through. So what have the small clubs gained out of these deals? Well, we now aren't guarenteed a reasonable fee for any youngster the big clubs want to take off us. Instead we now have to hope for them to actually make soemthing of their ability resulting in us recieving a fee similar to that we would have got anyway in the old system if they'd done nowt. The ones that do nothing (which is the majority and a number that will increase) will be worth a pittance to use and will be back in the lower leagues a couple of years down the line. Incidentally, looking at players that have done nothing in recent years (as of yet although that may change) we've got 600k for Eaves, 600k for Trotman (not sure on that one), 300k Scott Spencer. On the new system we'd be looking at around 150k maximum, probably much less for trotman as he'd only been here a year. In addition should we take a few injuries to our ever decreasing squad sizes (even more so now we aren't going to see the same steady income from player sales), we can't make emergency loans. The only people I can really see benefitting from any of this are the 'big fish in small ponds', the Sheffields, Huddersfield even McDons. they have the ability to maintain a big squad throughout the season and have much less need for emergency loans, whilst the small clubs who are already scraping by will struggle even more, forced to play youngsters who are far from ready with their best already long poached by the greedy league. Is this going to help us in anyway or are we just going to see the competetiveness of even the lower divisions skewed like the Premier League but with the clubs with the money forced to the top by these new rules.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusoe Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 I think it would only work if the bigger clubs realised there was little mileage in buying up every young player and maintaining vast squads that they couldn't loan out (i.e. paying dead wages for players who won't be gaining any first team match experience). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
futchers briefs Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 I am not in favour of the present loan system, if a player is good you probably won't keep him for long, if he is no good you don't want him to stay anyway. The best way to build a team is with permanent signings (2 year deals if possible),the manager then stands or falls by them. Also forget agents offering unseen players, bring back old fashioned scouting. I think that's a really valid point BP. I would love to know the percentage of players signed by clubs based upon a 'recommendation', rather than from the traditional scouting method. I would imagine it to be quite high. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 I think that's a really valid point BP. I would love to know the percentage of players signed by clubs based upon a 'recommendation', rather than from the traditional scouting method. I would imagine it to be quite high. I'd agree and I find it bizarre that managers are willing to bet their already fragile career prospects by signing players on recommendations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 I think that's a really valid point BP. I would love to know the percentage of players signed by clubs based upon a 'recommendation', rather than from the traditional scouting method. I would imagine it to be quite high. I would like to see Big Joe's system return, survey the local scene and pick up young prospects on free's or small fees, they are still out there if properly scouted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 I would like to see Big Joe's system return, survey the local scene and pick up young prospects on free's or small fees, they are still out there if properly scouted. Then take whoever Leeds are binning off? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Then take whoever Leeds are binning off? And City... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forte_Baby Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 On a more positive note it will stop bigger clubs like Leeds exploiting the window signing a player on loan before taking them at the next window. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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