OneSizeFitz Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 Long time visitor, first time poster. A brief assessment of recent performances: Although recent results have, undeniably, been dire, I'm of the opinion that Dickov is still the right man for the job. Recent performances have merited more than the 1 point we've gained in the last seven games: - Oldham 0 - 2 Swindon. A fair result, I felt. Outclassed. No complaints. - Yeovil 4 - 1 Oldham. Again, a very poor result, but flattered Yeovil. - Oldham 1 - 2 Doncaster. Unfortunate, deserved a point. - Oldham 1 - 2 Crewe. Very unfortunate, deserved a win. - Scunthorpe 2 - 2 Oldham. A good point, given the circumstances. Showed good character from 2 - 0 down, and had Wes not been sent off, could well have gone on to win the game. - Oldham 0 - 2 Brentford. Slightly unfortunate, could well have scraped a point. - Coventry 2 - 1 Oldham. One minute away from a point at the Ricoh? Unlucky. Admittedly, this still isn't great. But it isn't sacking form. And let's not forget the cup-run. Dickov as a manager: Positives: - His effort, passion and desperation for the club to succeed are irrefutable. - His ability to attract players to the club is equally so. - His man-management appears excellent; the players really do seem to rate him. - He seems very highly-regarded within the game. - His rapport with the fans/handling of the media is also impressive. This shouldn't be underestimated (...Penney?). Negatives: - Tactical naïvety. - An unwillingness to shake things up a bit when they're not going well. A lack of a Plan B. In my eyes, the latter two could be solved with the addition of an experienced, wise head to the backroom staff (Sammy McIlroy 'd been on my shortlist). Dickov is FAR from the finished article, but he deserves to be given the opportunity to fix things. The club needs stability; Rome wasn't built in a day. I firmly believe that we're not far from finding the right formula. Fans of this club seem to have somewhat unrealistic expectations. Let's face it, we are, based on attendances and finance, about where we should be. The idea that we should be higher up the league is the conception of nostalgia and an opinion that the current bunch of players are under-performing. It's time we stopped living in the past, and engaged in some realism. Would we have been able to attract these players without Dickov? Baxter springs to mind. I don't think we'll go down this year; our recent perfomances really haven't been that bad, and there ARE four worse teams than us in this league. Let's give Paul a chance, assisted by an experienced number two, until the end of the season and then take stock. The last thing we need is fans getting on the gaffer's back; he's doing his best. This sort of discontent inevitably filters through to the players, and isn't a mindset conducive to dragging ourselves out of a relegation dogfight. So, let's get behind the lads, and the manager and pull ourselves out of this mess. KTF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
halfwaymick Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 excellent post.. completely agree with everything you say Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddot_m Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 I see what you mean and hate the idea of continually sacking managers in a Chelsea-esque style. However, the tactical nativity is such a negative that I think if he shows no signs of improvement in this regard he should go. How can the manager continuously make incorrect decisions, crap substitutions, and stay in a job? He has done something odd at pretty much each game this and last season. Additionally at Yeovil the score didn't flatter them, we were weak, second to the ball and clueless after we let their first goal in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 I haven't seen many of the games mentioned so can't comment on them. It's rare if not unique for everyone on here to agree, but I think we are ALL agreed that something does need to change, and if we can get someone in who can work with PD then that would be my preference - getting a new manager in could mean losing the positives he brings without gaining anything much. The replacement would have to work with the same players, who aren't consistent world beaters, although they could do better I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddot_m Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 I haven't seen many of the games mentioned so can't comment on them. It's rare if not unique for everyone on here to agree, but I think we are ALL agreed that something does need to change, and if we can get someone in who can work with PD then that would be my preference - getting a new manager in could mean losing the positives he brings without gaining anything much. The replacement would have to work with the same players, who aren't consistent world beaters, although they could do better I think. We need to do something soon. I'd prefer not to have an April full of must win games after taking nothing until then! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M35FYC Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 Long time visitor, first time poster. A brief assessment of recent performances: Although recent results have, undeniably, been dire, I'm of the opinion that Dickov is still the right man for the job. Recent performances have merited more than the 1 point we've gained in the last seven games: - Oldham 0 - 2 Swindon. A fair result, I felt. Outclassed. No complaints. - Yeovil 4 - 1 Oldham. Again, a very poor result, but flattered Yeovil. - Oldham 1 - 2 Doncaster. Unfortunate, deserved a point. - Oldham 1 - 2 Crewe. Very unfortunate, deserved a win. - Scunthorpe 2 - 2 Oldham. A good point, given the circumstances. Showed good character from 2 - 0 down, and had Wes not been sent off, could well have gone on to win the game. - Oldham 0 - 2 Brentford. Slightly unfortunate, could well have scraped a point. - Coventry 2 - 1 Oldham. One minute away from a point at the Ricoh? Unlucky. Admittedly, this still isn't great. But it isn't sacking form. And let's not forget the cup-run. Dickov as a manager: Positives: - His effort, passion and desperation for the club to succeed are irrefutable. - His ability to attract players to the club is equally so. - His man-management appears excellent; the players really do seem to rate him. - He seems very highly-regarded within the game. - His rapport with the fans/handling of the media is also impressive. This shouldn't be underestimated (...Penney?). Negatives: - Tactical naïvety. - An unwillingness to shake things up a bit when they're not going well. A lack of a Plan B. In my eyes, the latter two could be solved with the addition of an experienced, wise head to the backroom staff (Sammy McIlroy 'd been on my shortlist). Dickov is FAR from the finished article, but he deserves to be given the opportunity to fix things. The club needs stability; Rome wasn't built in a day. I firmly believe that we're not far from finding the right formula. Fans of this club seem to have somewhat unrealistic expectations. Let's face it, we are, based on attendances and finance, about where we should be. The idea that we should be higher up the league is the conception of nostalgia and an opinion that the current bunch of players are under-performing. It's time we stopped living in the past, and engaged in some realism. Would we have been able to attract these players without Dickov? Baxter springs to mind. I don't think we'll go down this year; our recent perfomances really haven't been that bad, and there ARE four worse teams than us in this league. Let's give Paul a chance, assisted by an experienced number two, until the end of the season and then take stock. The last thing we need is fans getting on the gaffer's back; he's doing his best. This sort of discontent inevitably filters through to the players, and isn't a mindset conducive to dragging ourselves out of a relegation dogfight. So, let's get behind the lads, and the manager and pull ourselves out of this mess. KTF. excellent analogy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafcprozac Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 Long time visitor, first time poster. A brief assessment of recent performances: Although recent results have, undeniably, been dire, I'm of the opinion that Dickov is still the right man for the job. Recent performances have merited more than the 1 point we've gained in the last seven games: - Oldham 0 - 2 Swindon. A fair result, I felt. Outclassed. No complaints. - Yeovil 4 - 1 Oldham. Again, a very poor result, but flattered Yeovil. - Oldham 1 - 2 Doncaster. Unfortunate, deserved a point. - Oldham 1 - 2 Crewe. Very unfortunate, deserved a win. - Scunthorpe 2 - 2 Oldham. A good point, given the circumstances. Showed good character from 2 - 0 down, and had Wes not been sent off, could well have gone on to win the game. - Oldham 0 - 2 Brentford. Slightly unfortunate, could well have scraped a point. - Coventry 2 - 1 Oldham. One minute away from a point at the Ricoh? Unlucky. Admittedly, this still isn't great. But it isn't sacking form. And let's not forget the cup-run. Dickov as a manager: Positives: - His effort, passion and desperation for the club to succeed are irrefutable. - His ability to attract players to the club is equally so. - His man-management appears excellent; the players really do seem to rate him. - He seems very highly-regarded within the game. - His rapport with the fans/handling of the media is also impressive. This shouldn't be underestimated (...Penney?). Negatives: - Tactical naïvety. - An unwillingness to shake things up a bit when they're not going well. A lack of a Plan B. In my eyes, the latter two could be solved with the addition of an experienced, wise head to the backroom staff (Sammy McIlroy 'd been on my shortlist). Dickov is FAR from the finished article, but he deserves to be given the opportunity to fix things. The club needs stability; Rome wasn't built in a day. I firmly believe that we're not far from finding the right formula. Fans of this club seem to have somewhat unrealistic expectations. Let's face it, we are, based on attendances and finance, about where we should be. The idea that we should be higher up the league is the conception of nostalgia and an opinion that the current bunch of players are under-performing. It's time we stopped living in the past, and engaged in some realism. Would we have been able to attract these players without Dickov? Baxter springs to mind. I don't think we'll go down this year; our recent perfomances really haven't been that bad, and there ARE four worse teams than us in this league. Let's give Paul a chance, assisted by an experienced number two, until the end of the season and then take stock. The last thing we need is fans getting on the gaffer's back; he's doing his best. This sort of discontent inevitably filters through to the players, and isn't a mindset conducive to dragging ourselves out of a relegation dogfight. So, let's get behind the lads, and the manager and pull ourselves out of this mess. KTF. Any team can have a bad run, the current bad run is not the issue for me. It is the consistently poor tactics, the refusal to use his squad instead of shoe-horning and shuffling around his 12 or 13 guaranteed starters. It has been poor since February 2011, so again it isn't the current run of 3 League wins in 15, it is the previous runs of 4 wins in 24 and 2 wins in 23 that have culminated in the general consensus that we are doomed to relegation with Dickov in charge. We've 18 games left and to stay up I reckon we will need a similar run of that from his only good consistent run - that of his first 18 games in charge where we took 27 points and lost only 3 games. If he can recreate that then we will stay up easily. Sadly I think the current squad doesn't have the stomach for a relegation fight and he's clueless how to whip them into shape. He has to go and quickly... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deyres42 Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 Nice sentiments but the negatives you outline are the reasons why he needs to go. Perhaps a new manager wouldn't be able to get this group of players to perform any better either, but we have to try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc-latics Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 have to agree. it's very hard to argue with form of LLLLDLL and consistently underperforming players, but there is something about Dickov that has kept him here for longer than maybe he should have been. he couldn't complain if he was sacked, but Corney has backed him and has learnt that consistency with a manager is more likely to bring success. you're right when you say that an experienced assistant will be crucial. i'm on the fence with PD, because he can show he can do it, but then poor runs of form are familiar. i also don't think there are many worthwhile replacements that are significantly better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazlatic Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 Experience is what we need for PD. 100% agree. PD attracts decent players at our level with our budget, but they turn into mediocre ones over the first half of the season. He needs help from someone who knows the ropes. Maybe a "Bad Cop" and one who can spot an opportunity in a game. Great 1st post! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewBlue Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 Dickov as a manager: Positives: - His effort, passion and desperation for the club to succeed are irrefutable. - His ability to attract players to the club is equally so. - His man-management appears excellent; the players really do seem to rate him. - He seems very highly-regarded within the game. - His rapport with the fans/handling of the media is also impressive. This shouldn't be underestimated (...Penney?). Negatives: - Tactical naïvety. - An unwillingness to shake things up a bit when they're not going well. A lack of a Plan B. When I assess these advantages and disadvantages I value the negatives far more than the positives. We could get any old manager in who is respected within the game, I'm passionate about the club and would give it everything if I was to be the manager. They aren't difficult attributes to find in a manager. Granted, his man-management is good and it's useful to attract good players to the club but ALL of your points are nullified and trumped by tactical naivety and stubbornness. The positives are made redundant by the negatives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
palmer1 Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 (edited) How many games do you let it go though saying "its just unforunate or unlucky, we deserved something but got nothing?" to many losses and dropped points for me now to say we are just unfortunate 1 point in a possible 27 is it? that is not unlucky it is damn right shambolic I dont want to keep changes managers but it has to happen this time, PD has now lost the fans and he will never get them back. I think if you get someone who can get us organised and doing the basics you will see we wil no longer be unfortunate quite as often as we are with PD Edited January 20, 2013 by palmer1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Ritchie Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 I honestly don't think our squad is very good. Ultimately that is our downfall. Baxter, Simpson, Mvoto (with a bit more guidance), Grounds, Wabara, Croft, Bouzanis and Cisak could cut it the league above or top of our league or league above. The rest are pretty much where they deserve to be or even lucky to be there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazlatic Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 Also, is it me or is there a battle going on between TP and SC with regards to the No2 job? TP says he is over-worked and Barry questions the investment in the youth set-up. Is SC saying that he understands that TP wants the job security of the youth set-up but that might be going anyway? If you want a job TP then you better look at the Asst Mgr's position or you might be out! Am I reading this right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deyres42 Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 Anybody can attract players, the trick is to bring in the ones who suit the style and system of play you wish to adopt to win football matches, he has shown he is incapable of this for two years now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Ritchie Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 Also, is it me or is there a battle going on between TP and SC with regards to the No2 job? TP says he is over-worked and Barry questions the investment in the youth set-up. Is SC saying that he understands that TP wants the job security of the youth set-up but that might be going anyway? If you want a job TP then you better look at the Asst Mgr's position or you might be out! Am I reading this right? While TP as a number 2 might benefit the club in the short term, Taking him away from the youth set up would be very detrimental in the long run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBosch Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 Long time visitor, first time poster. A brief assessment of recent performances: Although recent results have, undeniably, been dire, I'm of the opinion that Dickov is still the right man for the job. Recent performances have merited more than the 1 point we've gained in the last seven games: - Oldham 0 - 2 Swindon. A fair result, I felt. Outclassed. No complaints. - Yeovil 4 - 1 Oldham. Again, a very poor result, but flattered Yeovil. - Oldham 1 - 2 Doncaster. Unfortunate, deserved a point. - Oldham 1 - 2 Crewe. Very unfortunate, deserved a win. - Scunthorpe 2 - 2 Oldham. A good point, given the circumstances. Showed good character from 2 - 0 down, and had Wes not been sent off, could well have gone on to win the game. - Oldham 0 - 2 Brentford. Slightly unfortunate, could well have scraped a point. - Coventry 2 - 1 Oldham. One minute away from a point at the Ricoh? Unlucky. Admittedly, this still isn't great. But it isn't sacking form. And let's not forget the cup-run. Dickov as a manager: Positives: - His effort, passion and desperation for the club to succeed are irrefutable. - His ability to attract players to the club is equally so. - His man-management appears excellent; the players really do seem to rate him. - He seems very highly-regarded within the game. - His rapport with the fans/handling of the media is also impressive. This shouldn't be underestimated (...Penney?). Negatives: - Tactical naïvety. - An unwillingness to shake things up a bit when they're not going well. A lack of a Plan B. In my eyes, the latter two could be solved with the addition of an experienced, wise head to the backroom staff (Sammy McIlroy 'd been on my shortlist). Dickov is FAR from the finished article, but he deserves to be given the opportunity to fix things. The club needs stability; Rome wasn't built in a day. I firmly believe that we're not far from finding the right formula. Fans of this club seem to have somewhat unrealistic expectations. Let's face it, we are, based on attendances and finance, about where we should be. The idea that we should be higher up the league is the conception of nostalgia and an opinion that the current bunch of players are under-performing. It's time we stopped living in the past, and engaged in some realism. Would we have been able to attract these players without Dickov? Baxter springs to mind. I don't think we'll go down this year; our recent perfomances really haven't been that bad, and there ARE four worse teams than us in this league. Let's give Paul a chance, assisted by an experienced number two, until the end of the season and then take stock. The last thing we need is fans getting on the gaffer's back; he's doing his best. This sort of discontent inevitably filters through to the players, and isn't a mindset conducive to dragging ourselves out of a relegation dogfight. So, let's get behind the lads, and the manager and pull ourselves out of this mess. KTF. Excellent, well worded first post. Welcome to OWTB Paul. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewBlue Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 Also, can OWTB be like this more often, please? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazlatic Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 While TP as a number 2 might benefit the club in the short term, Taking him away from the youth set up would be very detrimental in the long run. I agree RR. TP knows the younger players that are coming through and would help bed them in to the 1st team environment - assuming they are worthy of the step-up. However, the pipeline will run dry without TP at the Youth End of it. He is not the man for the No2 job as he is not the Bad Cop that is needed anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBosch Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 Positives: - His effort, passion and desperation for the club to succeed are irrefutable. - His ability to attract players to the club is equally so. - His man-management appears excellent; the players really do seem to rate him. - He seems very highly-regarded within the game. - His rapport with the fans/handling of the media is also impressive. This shouldn't be underestimated (...Penney?). His man management appears atrocious the way his players take the piss out of him every week. Why shouldn't his rapport with fans and and handling of the media be underestimated? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBosch Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 While TP as a number 2 might benefit the club in the short term, It hasn't so far Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBosch Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 As supporters of Oldham Athletic can we please stop contriving to come up with reasons to continue this course towards relegation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazlatic Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 Not that short Harry!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 Anybody can attract players, the trick is to bring in the ones who suit the style and system of play you wish to adopt to win football matches, he has shown he is incapable of this for two years now. It's the style and system which has got the team where it is and many of the players too airy fairy, can he change the system and bring in physically powerful and stronger minded players ?.... I really do hope so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlayItLivo Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 We shouldn't fire Dickov, but re-allocate him as a scout. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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