jsslatic Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Did you not think Jss, that Bury were until midway through the second half very poor ? I agree that we could have quite easily scored one or two more goals but at the same time do you recall Fleetwood should have scored 27 I have no axe to grind with Darren Kelly but you can't survive with a "if they don't score, we won't lose" mentality I thought Bury were very poor all game. But I've also seen us play very poor teams on a number of occasions over the last few years and we haven't much troubled them. The point remains though - we attacked well in terms of creating chances. From a managerial perspective, that's the most we can ask. It's then up to the players to stick the chance in the net when it comes their way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deyres42 Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Going to be a noose around his neck that attacking football 'promise'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBosch Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 I'd like to see wins & goals as much as the next person but, considering how bad some of us (me included) thought DK was going to be & the hiding to nothing he's on, this is a solid start. A win on Saturday & we'll be flying. A loss and he could be out, which is ridiculous (unless some of the rumours are true). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youngen Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 I'd like to see wins & goals as much as the next person but, considering how bad some of us (me included) thought DK was going to be & the hiding to nothing he's on, this is a solid start. A win on Saturday & we'll be flying. A loss and he could be out, which is ridiculous (unless some of the rumours are true). The worst thing Kelly did was mention attacking football. If he had said we want to be organised and solid, then people on here would be over the moon. For me the shape limits opportunities for the opposition, and if we can take a few more gambles in games like Wilson going through one on one, I dont see the problem. LIke a new team gelling and finding the correct gear, thats the same for the new manager. Saying that, Ronnie Moore would have taken us up with similar tactics to Daz's grinding out 1-0 wins. Wasnt pretty but was effective. After however many :censored:e years in this league wanting entertaining football that leaves us in 16th place, I will take a year of turgid football if it gets us up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
24hoursfromtulsehill Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 We knew this was going to be a big test of Corney's managerial recruitment policy. He wants the highest bidder. The manager (Dickov, Johnson, Kelly) wants the experience necessary to secure a job at one of the 91 paying clubs. The manager can blow it only by getting relegated (there'd be no real incentive to take risks to mount a promotion challenge even if seeking promotion wasn't discouraged by the club hierarchy). Therefore you get cautious football, few goals and plenty of taking the draw rather than pushing for the win. This is down to Corney. Kelly is only being rational. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaronoafc Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 The formation isn't the problem, its a decent formation. The players are just not gung ho enough. The fullbacks have to overlap and get forward, our goal against bury came from a cross from mills. We also don't shoot enough, forte and philli are the main culprits. Agree - Overlapping nowadays especially with 1 upfront at home is MASSIVE and is key. Yes we're not Man City or anyone like that but all the better sides have the full backs over lapping. Especially vital when half the clueless defenders in this league will completely leave the fullback if he makes an effort. I don't mind Connor Brown but his lack of an over lap at times is shocking. Me and my mate noticed it at a recent home game cant remember which one. Over reactions on here though, a bit of luck against Bury and Shrewsbury (holding onto the lead + taking chances) and we're sitting Top 4. The good thing is we aren't conceding many when Burn and Wilson play together. If we can be a bit more ruthless up top which hopefully will come we'll have a decent crack at it this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dec666 Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Holden was always the worry for me, more so than Kelly. It seems like Kelly had absolutely no say in Holden staying as his assistant and the tactics so far have been eerily similar to the dross he served up at the end of the Season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafcprozac Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 A colleague of mine scouts for the club. He often attends our training sessions every session he's been to sees us set up 4 1 4 1 make of that what you will but it conflicts with the the 'philosophy' we've been told about time and again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drphibes Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Not sure why dk would leave holden to setup the formation and tactics. When it comes to experience holden has a handful of games in charge last season when he didn't exactly set the world on fire. Dk needs to start having a go especially at home or booing and falling attendances will be with us very soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafcprozac Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 I really want DK to succeed, especially after all the Dunn here to take his job rumours. By success I want him to develop his attacking philosophy. So far he's coming up short, ok were unbeaten in the league but 4 draws out of 5 and very few goals suggests he needs to loosen the attacking reigns a little. Away from home we look a threat but the two league home performances have been pretty poor in an attacking sense but tbf the home form has been pretty toothless going way back to Penney's season of 37 league goals all year..... I fear we are heading a similar way. To set up like he did last night was a missed opportunity to come out all guns blazing - instead he not only sets is up in a very negative way but plays a vastly weakened team Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midsblue Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 The bloke promised us attacking, expansive and attractive football. When he went on the hunt for midfielders and strikers ahead of defenders then I was comforted that this echoed what he wanted to achieve. I'm not against sorting the defence to avoid us leaking goals but grinding out 0-0 score lines won't attract the fans nor will it enable us to climb the table. My concern is that it seems that he placed all his eggs into the Cassidy basket with Poleon becoming unfavoured but he can't ship him out. The other strikers appear to be ineffective too in front of goal despite chances being created. If I was in his shoes then I would have all the strikers on scoring practice with balls being crossed into and just outside the box to sharpen then all up. I have this feeling that it will come good and just click but at moment some of the performances have been woeful so I'm starting to question whether we have the personnel, tactics, formations. I'm still confident we have the personnel so question must be coaching, tactics etc. If Kelly has a plan and the players won't or can't follow that through then that's concerning Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafcprozac Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Strangely enough our highest home goals tally in this division over the last decade was the season under Talbot when we scored 40+ goals Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafcprozac Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Some of our performances have reminded me of Shez's early days before porter returned from injury but we must go two up front and bin the holding midfielders at home. Two wingers and play midfielders in the middle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midsblue Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 I'd bring Tricky Ricky in who said he'd do it for nowt and play with wingers and fullbacks who would run and run supplying cross after cross into the box. I'm not dismissing all this fancy continental use of holding midfielders, packing the midfield, play from the back with caution etc etc but in the words of Mike Bassett - formation should be 4-4 ****ing 2. Two up front is needed. A big man - Cassidy or Stan - and a pacy **** like Forte, Poleon etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafcprozac Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Our manager at the first meeting in May told us how he's observed and coached with Den Haag, sporting Lisbon etc... I asked him how he would apply that knowledge of Europe's top leagues to an average league one team. He couldn't answer me coherently and therein I feel lies the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Careca9 Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 he's made a good start considering he has no experience of managing a club. we look competitve if a little blunt up front and his signings have been good. certainly better than previous managers like penny. cassidy is a huge blow as he looked like he would offer a cutting edge or focal point for the team to play off. i dont think any other manager even mourinho would get much change out of turner, poleon and murphy. we have to be realistic and acknowledge that if we play an open attacking game those 3 wont outscore many other teams strikers, therefore being a little defensive may be the best option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBosch Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 As good as Cassidy looked we saw one game and about 20 minutes of him and won neither of those games.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frizzell54 Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 i dont think any other manager even Mourinho would get much change out of this lot. FIFY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctor evil Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 IMO, this team is very capable of the play-offs and id be disappointed if we didn't reach them. That said im fairly happy with the current position. We've seen a definite improvement in the Bury game. We have to keep on improving and that involves putting the ball in the net more. I'd be worried if we weren't creating chances but on the evidence of Bury we are creating more. Decent start overall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chorlton_Latic Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 All this talk of promises... I genuinely can't believe any football fan would take a burgeoning young manager at his word over 'expansive, attacking football', much less hold him to task over it when it hasn't been implemented 7 games into his career!! What did you expect him to say? 'I can assure our fans we will base our game around a solid defence, we'll squeeze that midfield together so tightly that they'll end up with one bollock between the 5/6/7 (delete as applicable) of them, we'll pass sideways and backwards most of the game, and when we do break, we'll be relying on 1 runner from deep in addition to the 1 forward we play up top who most think is a winger anyway. Oh, and that runner will be a centre back, because the 1 other 'striker' on the pitch is being played in defensive midfield'. Generic media fluff and nothing more. It's about results, and unless you've got money to throw at it, at the merest whiff of pressure, even the most honest of managers will quickly figure out the 'with style' part of 'winning with style' is hopelessly idealistic and revert to the most pragmatic way to find points. We've been pretty dull to watch, but at the end of the day, we've not been beaten yet. Plus, it's hardly a new revelation with managers cutting their teeth. The early days under Dickov were pretty swashbuckling until we got a few tonkings, and more recently, under Johnson, we went from back to back cavalier defeats to PNE & Rovrum to sitting back & grimly hanging onto a 1-0 lead at home to Carlisle in a matter of weeks, because needs must. The theme is too recurrent for it to be coincidence. At least he's not luring us into a false sense of security with some initially schexy football which then falls by the whey side I've only been to Fleetwood & Shrewsbury so far, neither of which filled me with massive confidence, but it's early days. I hope he proves me wrong as he finds his feet and does implement his style, but I'm not getting my hopes up. In Kelly's defence, he previously brought in Croft, and then Yeates to add to the 'expansive' part of our game, but with the latter, some of the same people who moaned about the narrow style moaned about this signing and said we didn't need another midfielder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewBlue Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 We've been pretty dull to watch, but at the end of the day, we've not been beaten yet. Everything you say is spot on, except implying that it's been successful. We've played teams that we should be beating, and probably would have if we'd gone for it a bit more. It's early days yet but we'll come up against sterner opposition, who will put away the chances Fleetwood missed. It's not been the 'winning style', because we've won 1 in 5/7 if you cups. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deyres42 Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Everything you say is spot on, except implying that it's been successful. We've played teams that we should be beating, and probably would have if we'd gone for it a bit more. It's early days yet but we'll come up against sterner opposition, who will put away the chances Fleetwood missed. It's not been the 'winning style', because we've won 1 in 5/7 if you cups. We haven't got a divine right to be beating anybody in this league, long way from being that good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simpo Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 (edited) Quite a lot of bluster in this thread. My view is that we're still some steps away from the polished article, but that there are positive signs. The way we have set ourselves up away from home in the league has been positive. I didn't go to Colchester, but at Walsall and Bury I was very entertained, and felt the lads really wanted to win and weren't happy with settling for a point. If we can carry that on all season we'll get more points than most League One teams. At home has been the problem. As fans have said, we need to be more positive, and clever, to break teams down, rather than counter attack, which is effective at other teams' grounds. But that is based on only two home league games. I trust in the staff and players to improve on what we've seen so far, and adapt. If it's the same old story in the coming weeks, it will be right to have a bit of a go, but to be as critical as some have been in here is jumping the gun. Edited September 2, 2015 by Simpo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewBlue Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 We haven't got a divine right to be beating anybody in this league, long way from being that good. That's been learnt the hard way over a number of years, but if you want to be anything in this league the promoted sides + Colchester's and Fleetwood's have to be beaten, in the same way Oldham have been seen that way for 6 years Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deyres42 Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 That's been learnt the hard way over a number of years, but if you want to be anything in this league the promoted sides + Colchester's and Fleetwood's have to be beaten, in the same way Oldham have been seen that way for 6 years We will be seen as a very beatable side too though, nobody looking at our team sheet will be quaking in their boots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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