JohnnyPimp Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 So we're blaming Holden, yeah? It's laughable isn't it? If it really is the case that Holden is dictating tactics, then Kelly needs to grow a pair real soon, or he'll find himself having to buy a new box of Manilla gusset envelopes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 (edited) I liked how Kevin Keegan managed his sides just go out and score more than them, I am a firm believer in attack attack, defend from the front with a high line.As long as you get the back players working in sync all keep a good straight line, move up together that will get results in this league. playing Diamonds and Christmas trees, or a fluffy bush, in this league is stupid it take the best of the best to implement it, and the best to understand it and play it. Sam Allardyce always get slagged off but what he good at is playing a way that works for the squad that he has, and changes it as they get better players in. Play with what you have in a way they can perform. We are considered dinosaurs for thinking that way Big H, many today have been brainwashed into accepting chessboard theories and tactics as the way to go. Rick Holden was asked the other day how the Latics team he played for approached games, he replied 'we just went out and attacked the opposition no matter who they were'. I think Bournemouth are carrying on Rick's philosophy, they signed yet another goalscorer today. Edited September 1, 2015 by BP1960 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archiecat Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Time is running out for blaming these dull,lifeless performances on early season jitters and integrating new players into the team. This "philosophy" we keep hearing about is laughable, we are probably the least attack minded Latics team i have witnessed in years. Also, for a team with a packed midfield due to the insistence on playing one up front, it appears alarmingly easy for the opposition to just waltz right through us. Soon enough the luck we have been riding though some of these early games will desert us and we will be given a bloody good hiding by a decent team. Throw away the coaching manual, forget the negative formations and just get out there to play and entertain !!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simoncorneyisgod Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Negative coaching, you saw it last season now this. If this is true then it just shows that we have a weak spineless manager! It's his team he needs to get across his philosophy or what's the point in him being here......if I'm honest BP i find it very strange that you are now blaming Holden for the tactics when it's down to the manager to direct the coaches, that email must have had some effect on you! From what I'm hearing DK is unbelievably positive almost to the point of being nausiating.........maybe this is the reason he can't seem to se the wood for the trees? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_mighty_bosh Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 I get the feeling DK being new to management has let DH dictate the tactics so far, if so he should now throw off the shackles and introduce the expansive attacking football he said he wanted to us all to see. Sorry BP I agree with a lot of what you say and I would also like to see more expansive and attacking football, but if Holden is having a stronger influence on the team than the manager then the manager isn't doing his job correctly and the buck stops with him. Personally I don't think this is the case, I think Kelly is clinging on for dear life and trying to survive the 1st month or two by focusing on results above all else. I know I would be and I don't blame him in the slightest for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pukka Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 (edited) From what I'm hearing DK is unbelievably positive almost to the point of being nausiating.........maybe this is the reason he can't seem to se the wood for the trees? I am convinced he doesn't want us to play negative football. Young managers copy what is happening at the top level. The top sides play with 1 up front. They keep the ball, have protection from an anchored midfield.... and score goals. Why? Because they have Aguero, Silva, De Brunye/Navas and Stirling as a front 4. That formation gives the 3 behind licence to roam. If you have Silva and the rest, they don't need to be told what to do. They have the footballing intelligence to play in the right areas and do the right thing. The 2 holding players at City know when to break. Play like that with poorer players and they stay more rigid in the formation. They dont break their lines and it leaves 1 man up front on his own. It isnt a negative formation, but we have league 1 players who cannot play with any freedom like that. You are giving them a champions league method with league 1 players. Teachers wouldn't teach a class of 12 year olds A level work would they? The teaching (tactics) are right, but with the wrong players. The premier league all employ this. That is why there have been so few home wins. It encourages counter attacking. We should go back to basics Edited September 2, 2015 by pukka Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
20JoeM07 Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 IMO yes, same all the time DH has been here, it seems ingrained in the players. Agree with this, the football has been dire since DH has been involved with the club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 (edited) Sorry BP I agree with a lot of what you say and I would also like to see more expansive and attacking football, but if Holden is having a stronger influence on the team than the manager then the manager isn't doing his job correctly and the buck stops with him. Personally I don't think this is the case, I think Kelly is clinging on for dear life and trying to survive the 1st month or two by focusing on results above all else. I know I would be and I don't blame him in the slightest for it. Not sure about that, like anyone in a new job you need assistance until you know the ropes and can fully take charge, it is that which makes me think he has been relying on DH too much. DK is at that stage now he should instill in the team his expansive attacking policy, if the coach can't or won't adapt he should look for one who will. If DK is of the mindset results come first - no matter how negative the tactics, this could apply all season and won't have provided the style of play he said he was going to adopt. I have met him and like him as a person, but that won't stop me saying what I think about of the current method of play. Edited September 2, 2015 by BP1960 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzlatic Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Time is running out for blaming these dull,lifeless performances on early season jitters and integrating new players into the team. This "philosophy" we keep hearing about is laughable, we are probably the least attack minded Latics team i have witnessed in years. Also, for a team with a packed midfield due to the insistence on playing one up front, it appears alarmingly easy for the opposition to just waltz right through us. Soon enough the luck we have been riding though some of these early games will desert us and we will be given a bloody good hiding by a decent team. Throw away the coaching manual, forget the negative formations and just get out there to play and entertain !!!! Did you go to Bury? I didn't personally, but what you (and others to be fair) are saying there contradicts the reports of the Bury game where by all accounts (and off the highlights) with better finishing we could have scored 4 or 5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
celliott83 Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 I'm sorry I think you are wrong to think this :censored:e we are being served up is down to DH, it is DK on the training ground working on his ideas and tactics he said it himself! After another transfer deadline day where we have kept all our important players we should be buzzing but this squad which in my opinion is the best we have had in years is going to be wasted on DK. Starting to feel like the job is too big for him (like Dickov) and he has reverted to shut up shop and hope for the best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deyres42 Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Get the defence right and the rest will follow, it might not be pretty for a while until they work out the best team and tactics but there's enough attacking talent in the squad to offer hope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsslatic Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Time is running out for blaming these dull,lifeless performances on early season jitters and integrating new players into the team. This "philosophy" we keep hearing about is laughable, we are probably the least attack minded Latics team i have witnessed in years. Also, for a team with a packed midfield due to the insistence on playing one up front, it appears alarmingly easy for the opposition to just waltz right through us. Soon enough the luck we have been riding though some of these early games will desert us and we will be given a bloody good hiding by a decent team. Throw away the coaching manual, forget the negative formations and just get out there to play and entertain !!!! Bury wasn't dull and lifeless. We created plenty of chances. There's only so much the manager can do, it's on the players to stick straightforward chances away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yarddog73 Posted September 2, 2015 Author Share Posted September 2, 2015 Get the defence right and the rest will follow, it might not be pretty for a while until they work out the best team and tactics but there's enough attacking talent in the squad to offer hope. I disagree about having enough attacking talent, we have plenty of bodies but very little up to League 1 standard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevie_J Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Agree with this, the football has been dire since DH has been involved with the club. Other than the football played during his caretaker spell, I think it's extremely weak to lay the blame with Holden for any shortcomings in tactics. If the Assistant is doing things wrong, it's up to the manager to either get rid of him or make him change the way he's working. But we get this with every manager/assistant, back to the days when people were pointing the finger at Billy Urmson, where people don't want to criticise the manager but want to find someone to blame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dannyboy55555 Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Give the bloke a bloody chance. Joe Royle took 5 points from his first 5 games. Hounding the manager after a loss in the JPT is frankly laughable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC0AFC Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Give the bloke a bloody chance. Joe Royle took 5 points from his first 5 games. Hounding the manager after a loss in the JPT is frankly laughable. Get away from this message board with your sensible post. This is OWTB where a knee jerk reaction to a JPT loss with 4 debutants in the side is plausible. 100% agree though, this place is a joke at times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Did you go to Bury? I didn't personally, but what you (and others to be fair) are saying there contradicts the reports of the Bury game where by all accounts (and off the highlights) with better finishing we could have scored 4 or 5. But we didn't, hence 7 games 4 goals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Get away from this message board with your sensible post. This is OWTB where a knee jerk reaction to a JPT loss with 4 debutants in the side is plausible. 100% agree though, this place is a joke at times. Its not about the loss, its about the tactics employed, which are the opposite to what we were told. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archiecat Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Bury wasn't dull and lifeless. We created plenty of chances. There's only so much the manager can do, it's on the players to stick straightforward chances away. Did you not think Jss, that Bury were until midway through the second half very poor ? I agree that we could have quite easily scored one or two more goals but at the same time do you recall Fleetwood should have scored 27 I have no axe to grind with Darren Kelly but you can't survive with a "if they don't score, we won't lose" mentality Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevie_J Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Give the bloke a bloody chance. Joe Royle took 5 points from his first 5 games. Hounding the manager after a loss in the JPT is frankly laughable. I have my reservations about Kelly but couldn't agree more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctor evil Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 The formation isn't the problem, its a decent formation. The players are just not gung ho enough. The fullbacks have to overlap and get forward, our goal against bury came from a cross from mills. We also don't shoot enough, forte and philli are the main culprits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzlatic Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 But we didn't, hence 7 games 4 goals. But the point I was making was that the chances were created and missed. Good chances too. So the lack of goals in that game weren't due to defensive tactics, just bad finishing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 The formation isn't the problem, its a decent formation. The players are just not gung ho enough. The fullbacks have to overlap and get forward, our goal against bury came from a cross from mills. We also don't shoot enough, forte and philli are the main culprits. So who is responsible for the players failure go get forward enough and find the net, themselves or the designated tactics ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctor evil Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 So who is responsible for the players failure go get forward enough and find the net, themselves or the designated tactics ? Dont know, because apparently unlike everyone on here i dont have access to teamtalks and the manger's plans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsslatic Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 But we didn't, hence 7 games 4 goals. 5 goals. Don't believe everything you read. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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