Oldham v Wigan

[tringerlatic42]

Welcome back Mike Jones.

At last a latics player demanding the ball, the game changed once Kelly went off and Jones appeared to step up under the responsibility. Been pretty poor/anonymous for the first hour. We need Kelly of course but I wonder if Jones is feeling inhibited somehow.

Brown, not good enough, rest of back four will do for me, Mills or Eckersley in ASAP.

Philliskirk, not good enough, doesn't want the ball enough.

Croft is Croft, I like his graft and you will always get at least 7/10.

Swansea boy Fulton had a good start then disappeared a bit BUT looks classy on the ball and again should demand the ball more. Looks promising to me and ought to keep his place.

Higden, deceptively effective, very heavy and very slow but could be a good signing, a real experienced player with a bit of know how.

Poleon, so frustrating, exciting on his day but woeful finisher, may have had a hat trick and really should have scored from Higdens header from Diengs cross. To his credit he changed the game.

Yeates will do a job for us, adds a bit of excitement which this side needs.

Better days ahead I think.

This was my 1st game for the season and I came more in hope than expectation. By half time I really questioned why i bothered making a 150 mile trip and thought perhaps it was a time to stop- mainly the negativity of our approach was alarming.

 

But the 2nd half restored my faith. I agree with all Stainrod's observations and would only add to the point on Yeates and I really had a sense of anticipation every time the ball went out to him and there was nearly always an end product.

 

I thought Jones was eventually a lot more effective than Kelly who for me has poor distribution.

 

I thought the changes ( plus of course the sending off) totally changed the game and I hope we learn that a more aggressive approach is the best way- I don't think we have the right balance to be a counter attacking team.

 

I also noticed the new coach and was very impressed by his body language and passion.

 

Nest stop Port Vale and hope to meet and chat with some of you there and then hopefully Scunthorpe at home

[bigfatjoe1]

i think we were a bit negative because we'd been battered in the last two home games, had a few changes/new players and

players returning from injury. Add to that we were playing against one of the strongest teams in the division (supposedly),Connor Brown was playing and Jimmy Wagg's presence in the Main Stand, and it's no wonder we were cautious.

 

We did well, all things considered.

[leeslover]

I'm struggling to remember someone making direct driving runs through midfield likes Jones did maybe 3 times in the second half. Makes you wonder what would have happened if Tarky had started his 20 yards further forward

[BP1960]

I'm struggling to remember someone making direct driving runs through midfield likes Jones did maybe 3 times in the second half. Makes you wonder what would have happened if Tarky had started his 20 yards further forward

 

[20JoeM07]

Team selection on Saturday was poor in my opinion. Don't understand the intended use of philliskirk in that starting line up? Would of made more sense to have Fulton and Jones in the centre with kelly holding and croft and yeates/poleon on the right/left. When Dunn switched to this second half we looked a lot more of a threat and actually played to the strengths of higdon.

Edited September 28, 2015 by 20JoeM07

[losesome]

i think we were a bit negative because we'd been battered in the last two home games, had a few changes/new players and

players returning from injury. Add to that we were playing against one of the strongest teams in the division (supposedly),Connor Brown was playing and Jimmy Wagg's presence in the Main Stand, and it's no wonder we were cautious.

 

We did well, all things considered.

We have been cautious and negative for a number of years now.

 

Think we have won just 4 league matches at home in the last calendar year and not scored 2 in a match since March !!!

 

Sick to the back teeth of packing midfield and playing one up front.

Looking back now whilst it was magnificent to watch ,Barcelona / Spain winning champions league / world cups with their non upfront style has ruined football at this level.

They all want to play that way now and it just doesn't work because to do it you need class players that are not in our league.

 

The only time we get 20 or 30 min of entertaining football is when we are forced to push 2 up and go for it.

 

I wish managers these days would just ditch the training manuals and play to win instead of playing not to lose.

Edited September 28, 2015 by losesome

[TheBigDog]

We have been cautious and negative for a number of years now.

 

Think we have won just 4 league matches at home in the last calendar year and not scored 2 in a match since March !!!

 

Sick to the back teeth of packing midfield and playing one up front.

Looking back now whilst it was magnificent to watch ,Barcelona winning the champions league with their non upfront style has ruined football at this level.

They all want to play that way now and it just doesn't work because to do it you need class players that are not in our league.

 

The only time we get 20 or 30 min of entertaining football is when we are forced to push 2 up and go for it.

 

I wish managers these days would just ditch the training manuals and play to win instead of playing not to lose.

This for me too. In the first half it seemed as if the respective managers had set up their teams from the same page of whatever coaching manual they use nowadays...

Both sides appeared to be playing a system that neither was comfortable with. As for us, we constantly dropped deep surrendering possession in their half of the pitch. The players looked unsure as to positions and when on the ball were all too often looking to get rid quickly.

As Losesome points out, it was only when we were forced to attack that we did with any belief. I feel sorry for Philli as once again he played in a different role. When they came on, Poleon and Yeates gave us something we sorely needed all game - pace and an attacking intent. One or two other decent performances from Dieng, Cornell and later in the game Jones.

Keep learning DD - and learn quickly.

[youngen]

Team selection on Saturday was poor in my opinion. Don't understand the intended use of philliskirk in that starting line up? Would of made more sense to have Fulton and Jones in the centre with kelly holding and croft and yeates/poleon on the right/left. When Dunn switched to this second half we looked a lot more of a threat and actually played to the strengths of higdon.

 

My opinion exactly. Like managers previously Dunn had to make a space for Philiskirk for his work rate. I like Philiskirk but no way should he be left wing. When you sign someone like Higdon you need ball after ball into the box, which Yeates provides, Philiskirk wont get into those positions to deliver a ball and was completely wasted out wide.

 

If that left hand side had been Mills and Yeates on Saturday, we would have seen more attacking intent all game I feel.

 

I also didnt see what Fulton provided that Winchester doesnt. But I guess he plays for Swansea so hes obviously better...

[HarryBosch]

We have been cautious and negative for a number of years now.

 

Think we have won just 4 league matches at home in the last calendar year and not scored 2 in a match since March !!!

 

Sick to the back teeth of packing midfield and playing one up front.

 

Corney should be getting managers to focus primarily on this.

 

If we put together a team that could start winning more home games & scoring more goals we should still do no worse than our usual 16th but there'd be extra paying customers coming in giving us extra funds for the following season.

 

It's not even a personnel problem. Yes, better strikers would help but you could set these players up to score more goals.

The downside might be that we'd get the odd tonking from better sides and not be so tight away from home but, what would people rather watch?

[deyres42]

 

My opinion exactly. Like managers previously Dunn had to make a space for Philiskirk for his work rate. I like Philiskirk but no way should he be left wing. When you sign someone like Higdon you need ball after ball into the box, which Yeates provides, Philiskirk wont get into those positions to deliver a ball and was completely wasted out wide.

 

If that left hand side had been Mills and Yeates on Saturday, we would have seen more attacking intent all game I feel.

 

I also didnt see what Fulton provided that Winchester doesnt. But I guess he plays for Swansea so hes obviously better...

Fulton was terrific once he found his feet, one of the better debuts of recent times.

[celliott83]

People need to get real! The players available dictate the formation. Everyone will be in agreement that our strongest position is midfield. Why would you sacrifice our strongest area to play another forward inferior in quality? It's then how the players play that formation. 4-5-1 works, it does but when played properly.

We just don't seem to have that number 10, maybe Fulton is that player but for me the number 10 is the important player in 451, they can drop in but also push on if needed.

The mistake made was Philliskirk playing left wing. I'm not criticising Philliskirk as such because he is so far from a winger but without Yeates playing high and wide you lose the out ball. With him on the pitch you have the option if required to get the defence turned around and the team pushed on up the field. I would assume Philliskirk was to be utilised as an inside forward who was able to go 'cheat' ie float. That only works if you are 1. Clever 2. Confident 3. Quality on the ball which at the moment I'm not sure he is any of those.

[losesome]

People need to get real! The players available dictate the formation. Everyone will be in agreement that our strongest position is midfield. Why would you sacrifice our strongest area to play another forward inferior in quality? It's then how the players play that formation. 4-5-1 works, it does but when played properly.

We just don't seem to have that number 10, maybe Fulton is that player but for me the number 10 is the important player in 451, they can drop in but also push on if needed.

The mistake made was Philliskirk playing left wing. I'm not criticising Philliskirk as such because he is so far from a winger but without Yeates playing high and wide you lose the out ball. With him on the pitch you have the option if required to get the defence turned around and the team pushed on up the field. I would assume Philliskirk was to be utilised as an inside forward who was able to go 'cheat' ie float. That only works if you are 1. Clever 2. Confident 3. Quality on the ball which at the moment I'm not sure he is any of those.

Exactly the point i was making earlier , to play 1 up front you need quality players that league 1 or OAFC don't have.

Entertain - go 442

Jones / Kelly in Midfield, Forte and Croft wide with Higdon /Poleon up front.

 

Probably finish in the top half with a set up like that but more importantly as HarryB says , more entertainment means more bums on seats.

[BP1960]

This for me too. In the first half it seemed as if the respective managers had set up their teams from the same page of whatever coaching manual they use nowadays...

Both sides appeared to be playing a system that neither was comfortable with. As for us, we constantly dropped deep surrendering possession in their half of the pitch. The players looked unsure as to positions and when on the ball were all too often looking to get rid quickly.

As Losesome points out, it was only when we were forced to attack that we did with any belief. I feel sorry for Philli as once again he played in a different role. When they came on, Poleon and Yeates gave us something we sorely needed all game - pace and an attacking intent. One or two other decent performances from Dieng, Cornell and later in the game Jones.

Keep learning DD - and learn quickly.

 

I watched a vintage Granada TV interview with George Best and Rodney Marsh last night, mainly about when they played together for Fulham, the highlights of their off the cuff play was wonderful and I believe Fulham's gates shot up - even though both players were probably past their best. I remember the same effect when Bobby Johnstone was signed here.

Are there no ageing big name entertainers out there today who

could do a similar job for

us?

Edited September 28, 2015 by BP1960

[BP1960]

I wonder if Jones and Poleon thought..to hell with the coaching ..we will just run at them and cause havoc?

If so so I hope they werent reprimanded for not sticking to the game plan and told never to start a match that way in future.

[losesome]

I watched a vintage Granada TV interview with George Best and Rodney Marsh last night, mainly about when they played together for Fulham, the highlights of their off the cuff play was wonderful and I believe Fulham's gates shot up - even though both players were probably past their best. I remember the same effect when Bobby Johnstone was signed here.

Are there no ageing big name entertainers out there today who

could do a similar job for

us?

No because they are all multi millionaires who don't really care about the game like they did in the past.

Football is a business now , good players come along and earn the money then they retire from the job.

 

Back in the day these players loved the game and would probably have played for nowt.

Most dropped down a division or two just to carry on playing , i remember Fulham coming to BP with Best , Marsh and Booby Moore in the side.

Equivalent to a team like Sheff Utd visiting next month with and an older Messi , Beckham and John Terry.

 

Can you imagine that !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[youngen]

I watched a vintage Granada TV interview with George Best and Rodney Marsh last night, mainly about when they played together for Fulham, the highlights of their off the cuff play was wonderful and I believe Fulham's gates shot up - even though both players were probably past their best. I remember the same effect when Bobby Johnstone was signed here.

Are there no ageing big name entertainers out there today who

could do a similar job for

us?

 

David Dunn?

[BP1960]

 

David Dunn?

Not quite the ageing superstar I was thinking of youngen,I suppose Paul Scholes could have been the one.

[Stevie_J]

I watched a vintage Granada TV interview with George Best and Rodney Marsh last night, mainly about when they played together for Fulham, the highlights of their off the cuff play was wonderful and I believe Fulham's gates shot up - even though both players were probably past their best. I remember the same effect when Bobby Johnstone was signed here.

Are there no ageing big name entertainers out there today who

could do a similar job for

us?

They don't want to do it anymore. They've earnt their money.

 

The income was probably very welcome for Bobby Johnstone. In the modern era, the wages Latics pay wouldn't even register with someone like Paul Scholes.

[HarryBosch]

People need to get real! The players available dictate the formation. Everyone will be in agreement that our strongest position is midfield. Why would you sacrifice our strongest area to play another forward inferior in quality?

 

Because we're not winning many games, scoring many goals or tempting any extra fans to come to matches. And we're 20th in the league.

 

The best 11 players don't necessarily amount to the best team.

Edited September 28, 2015 by HarryBosch

[Twisbrogan]

I wonder if Jones and Poleon thought..to hell with the coaching ..we will just run at them and cause havoc?

If so so I hope they werent reprimanded for not sticking to the game plan and told never to start a match that way in future.

Is it not equally possible (or even more likely) that the coaches decided on a change of tactic at half time whereby instead of focussing on maintaining the teams shape when Wigan had possession, they chose to press defenders & their keeper which created more openings for us which we could exploit by being more direct with our running.

[ChaddySmoker]

People need to get real! The players available dictate the formation. Everyone will be in agreement that our strongest position is midfield. Why would you sacrifice our strongest area to play another forward inferior in quality? It's then how the players play that formation. 4-5-1 works, it does but when played properly.

We just don't seem to have that number 10, maybe Fulton is that player but for me the number 10 is the important player in 451, they can drop in but also push on if needed.

The mistake made was Philliskirk playing left wing. I'm not criticising Philliskirk as such because he is so far from a winger but without Yeates playing high and wide you lose the out ball. With him on the pitch you have the option if required to get the defence turned around and the team pushed on up the field. I would assume Philliskirk was to be utilised as an inside forward who was able to go 'cheat' ie float. That only works if you are 1. Clever 2. Confident 3. Quality on the ball which at the moment I'm not sure he is any of those.

Dont know why this post had been downvoted, very sensible post. In my opinion Philly was the best number 10 that we had but he has spent a couple of seasons now covering for every other position in midfield and tracking back to cover for crap players. He has now lost what made him potentially a good No 10!

[HarryBosch]

Dont know why this post had been downvoted, very sensible post. In my opinion Philly was the best number 10 that we had but he has spent a couple of seasons now covering for every other position in midfield and tracking back to cover for crap players. He has now lost what made him potentially a good No 10!

[yarddog73]

Dont know why this post had been downvoted, very sensible post. In my opinion Philly was the best number 10 that we had but he has spent a couple of seasons now covering for every other position in midfield and tracking back to cover for crap players. He has now lost what made him potentially a good No 10!

You were probably one of the many claiming golden boy was a better No 10 than Daniel Johnson!! Just remind me how Johnsons getting on then. Philliskirk remarkably keeps his place in what is a poor team week after week, despite being tried in nearly every position, his latest as a left winger he is as a rule :censored:e, he isnt the only one mind but its strange how he continues to find himself on the teamsheet. What does he really offer?

[NewBlue]

We just don't seem to have that number 10, maybe Fulton is that player but for me the number 10 is the important player in 451, they can drop in but also push on if needed.

Both are on the bench.

 

One is the manager and the other is Winchester.

 

The negative tactics have hindered us without doubt, but the fact that some of our better players have failed to perform to their capabilities so far is surely the greatest reason for our poor form. Jones has not been a shadow of his former self, Kelly has been missing, Croft has been bang average, Mills has been appalling, Winchester has struggled in the limited time we've given him, and Cassidy has been lost to injury.

 

Giving the players freedom of expression will surely help them, and give fans something to be excited about on top of that.

[Pine Villains]

I watched a vintage Granada TV interview with George Best and Rodney Marsh last night, mainly about when they played together for Fulham, the highlights of their off the cuff play was wonderful and I believe Fulham's gates shot up - even though both players were probably past their best. I remember the same effect when Bobby Johnstone was signed here.

Are there no ageing big name entertainers out there today who

could do a similar job for

us?

 

frank worthington

jan molby

steve archibald

trevor cherry