GlossopLatic Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 You inferred that it was the case. I think that they can basically charge as little or as much rent as they like. We will not know unless the Trust get given the figure. Let us look at it logically-TTA will want back the cost of the ground (was it £3M?) Do you not think that they could reasonably expect that? Then they made the conscious decision to build the 'White Elephant' and they will want back all the buidling and fitting out costs of the North Stand. Isnt that going to be at least £6.5M (probably more by the end?) That takes us virtually up to the £10M already plus there are other Fixed Assets in OAFC Ltd. They will want at least £10M that is the very least! Do not forget that the Accounts are 12 months out of date already. Costs have risen since then Can I get a third opinion here from someone because I am pretty sure what CS has explained above is not how you value a company. My understanding is that you Base it on the current value of the companies assets and more importantly what someone is prepared to pay for it (yes I am aware that these are from 2015 that's why on my first post I posted a link with more up to date figure's) you do not value it on what has been invested in capital. Many people have sunk millions of pounds into football clubs only for when the time has come for them to sell they have found they simply can not recoup that money Bolton Wanderers being a very recent example. While the scale of the write off won't be as big If corney asks for £10 million up front from someone I think he will get laughed out the room. But then knowone has made this abundantly clear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opinions4u Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 How exactly has the North Stand been financed? Did the council not make a contribution? Various figures flying around, but cost c£6.5m. Increase in debt between June 2014 and June 2015 c£3m. Presumably Blitz. Mysterious Scouse charge against the business from later in 2015 c£250k. Grant from council for community facilities (gym) c£700k. The rest, presumably from player sales (Smith, JCH, Tarky, Kelly and maybe others), Tarky sell on buy-out, perhaps further loans from blitz in June 2016. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaddySmoker Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 (edited) Can I get a third opinion here from someone because I am pretty sure what CS has explained above is not how you value a company. I have never said that this is how you SHOULD value a company. You asked me how on earth they should think that they could ask for £10M. What I have said is that TTA want substantially more then the £9.5M which can be 'justified' by the cost of the stadium plus the final costs of the North Stand. At the end of the day the value of anything is what somebody will pay for it. I have never said that the asking price is equal to that value. It is higher! Edited July 25, 2016 by ChaddySmoker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monty Burns Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 Can I get a third opinion here from someone because I am pretty sure what CS has explained above is not how you value a company. My understanding is that you Base it on the current value of the companies assets and more importantly what someone is prepared to pay for it (yes I am aware that these are from 2015 that's why on my first post I posted a link with more up to date figure's) you do not value it on what has been invested in capital. Many people have sunk millions of pounds into football clubs only for when the time has come for them to sell they have found they simply can not recoup that money Bolton Wanderers being a very recent example. While the scale of the write off won't be as big If corney asks for £10 million up front from someone I think he will get laughed out the room. But then knowone has made this abundantly clear. You aren't getting this are you? We all know that's not how to value a company, that's why resentment has been rising at SC, year on year, for doing so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlossopLatic Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 (edited) I have never said that this is how you SHOULD value a company. You asked me how on earth they should think that they could ask for £10M. What I have said is that TTA want substantially more then the £9.5M which can be 'justified' by the cost of the stadium plus the final costs of the North Stand. At the end of the day the value of anything is what somebody will pay for it. I have never said that the asking price is equal to that value. It is higher! For the 4th time on this thread where have they said that they want over £10 million for the football club? If you can back this claim up I will believe you BTW. Edited July 26, 2016 by GlossopLatic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlossopLatic Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 You aren't getting this are you? We all know that's not how to value a company, that's why resentment has been rising at SC, year on year, for doing so. Same question to you where have they told us how much they are asking for the football club? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghostofcecere Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 Same question to you where have they told us how much they are asking for the football club?I think it's just posters passing off their opinion as fact again. The trouble is, people believe it and get all angry about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aarondo Westy Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 (edited) This website. I think its the company who designed the North stand values oldham athletic at £15million . Unless I've read it wrong, which is probably the case and the value is for the whole development including the 700+ houses and the hotel facility and North stand. http://www.fwpgroup.co.uk/job/oldham-athletic-boundary-park-stadium/ Edited July 26, 2016 by Aarondo Westy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaddySmoker Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 I think it's just posters passing off their opinion as fact again. The trouble is, people believe it and get all angry about it. Someone asked how come they might value the club at £10M. I have provided figures as to why which are facts. I started off under this thread correcting erroneous points from another poster. The £10M+ I would argue is not just an opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpmarko Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 You aren't getting this are you? We all know that's not how to value a company, that's why resentment has been rising at SC, year on year, for doing so. This website. I think its the company who designed the North stand values oldham athletic at £15million . Unless I've read it wrong, which is probably the case and the value is for the whole development including the 700+ houses and the hotel facility and North stand. http://www.fwpgroup.co.uk/job/oldham-athletic-boundary-park-stadium/ Someone asked how come they might value the club at £10M. I have provided figures as to why which are facts. I started off under this thread correcting erroneous points from another poster. The £10M+ I would argue is not just an opinion. What a club is valued at (whatever method you use) and what an owner wants to satisfy his or her exit strategy are essentially two completely different items, and can be vastly different, either way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deyres42 Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 ChaddySmoker knows everything there is to know about everything, whatever he says goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpmarko Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 ChaddySmoker knows everything there is to know about everything, whatever he says goes. Don't we all? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBosch Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 This website. I think its the company who designed the North stand values oldham athletic at £15million . Unless I've read it wrong, which is probably the case and the value is for the whole development including the 700+ houses and the hotel facility and North stand. http://www.fwpgroup.co.uk/job/oldham-athletic-boundary-park-stadium/ Am I missing something or are they valuing us on the basis of the plans as they were in 2007 being completed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcfluff1985 Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 Am I missing something or are they valuing us on the basis of the plans as they were in 2007 being completed? Sounds to me like that value takes into account the whole lot. Including a 4* hotel. Especially when you look at a value of 9mil for Peterborough Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBosch Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 This website. I think its the company who designed the North stand values oldham athletic at £15million . Unless I've read it wrong, which is probably the case and the value is for the whole development including the 700+ houses and the hotel facility and North stand. http://www.fwpgroup.co.uk/job/oldham-athletic-boundary-park-stadium/ Is this the kind of "eye opening" info we could be privy to if we "come to a meeting"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aarondo Westy Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 Is this the kind of "eye opening" info we could be privy to if we "come to a meeting"? Haha I would imagine not. Truth be told I've stepped away from leading this now as I've got stuff going on away from Latics that is much more important to me, it's unfair of me to lead something that I cannot put the effort in that is needed. Let's be honest though if the club had not been so badly run the last few years especially the last 2 years there would of been no group formed. Maybe now I've steeped aside someone will step up and take it to a better level and be able to communicate and reach out to fans that I couldnt. I will still be supporting the group and I will still be supporting the team although both are highly likely to be from a distance at this moment in time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaddySmoker Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 ChaddySmoker knows everything there is to know about everything, whatever he says goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benja Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 This website. I think its the company who designed the North stand values oldham athletic at £15million . Unless I've read it wrong, which is probably the case and the value is for the whole development including the 700+ houses and the hotel facility and North stand. http://www.fwpgroup.co.uk/job/oldham-athletic-boundary-park-stadium/ It is indeed contract value and nothing to do with the valuing of the club. This usually includes all costs and fees from the inception of the project to the completion - and can include the financing. In this context, as a piece of marketing (a website) it is usually an estimated cost at the start of the project, this can fluctuate wildly with the final figures rarely disclosed by the developer to maintain a strong negotiating position if it were to be sold on in the future..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBosch Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 It is indeed contract value and nothing to do with the valuing of the club. This usually includes all costs and fees from the inception of the project to the completion - and can include the financing. In this context, as a piece of marketing (a website) it is usually an estimated cost at the start of the project, this can fluctuate wildly with the final figures rarely disclosed by the developer to maintain a strong negotiating position if it were to be sold on in the future..... The "project" they seem to be referring to is no longer happening though. There was another project since that one that also went tits up and we're currently taking forever to finish the latest, massively scaled down project.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlossopLatic Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 Someone asked how come they might value the club at £10M. I have provided figures as to why which are facts. I started off under this thread correcting erroneous points from another poster. The £10M+ I would argue is not just an opinion. It's an opinion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benja Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 The "project" they seem to be referring to is no longer happening though. There was another project since that one that also went tits up and we're currently taking forever to finish the latest, massively scaled down project.... I agree, I was giving a bit of objectivity to what that figure is on the Architects website, so not to be misconstrued as a valuation of the club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boundaryblue80 Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 (edited) It amazes me how many times I read topics like these and see how much is forgotten by people... Things like our leader stating they originally bought the club for £1m (when Chris Moore openly sold it to Joy and Jarvis for £1 so I doubt the £1m figure was paid to Jarvis & Joy). Things like us being told TTA have spent £14m on us overall (this was quoted a couple of years ago) but never saying what they've recouped of that in player sales/cup ties etc - yes, we know they'll still be out of pocket, but by how much is heavily debated due to the spin and BS we have been fed over the years. Things like in the season we sold Neal Eardley, the books showed the club would've made a profit but was saddled with a £1m bill for the research and development of FAILSworth (OAFC funding their huge mistake.) And then there is this.......that is often forgotten...... http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/local-news/oldham-athletic-seal-57m-deal-867028 Corney, revealed some of the cash would go to paying off a small part of a debt owed to his business partners and former co-owners Simon Blitz and Danny Gazal. Latics blowing a reported £5m on the Failsworth project And then people wonder why a ever growing majority of fans don't trust a lot of what comes out of our leaders mouth as to facts and figures. But then the Sports Direct renaming money was meant to propel us up the league table........... Edited July 26, 2016 by boundaryblue80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaticsPete Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 Is it reasonable to suggest that some of the initial cost of buying the club was to pay off debts? The club was saddled with them after Moore? And the £5 million cost of the Failsworth project was recouped by the deal with the council? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaddySmoker Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 It's an opinion It's a hell of a lot closer to the facts that those within your post number 8. If you dont want to believe my reasoning then that is your choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boundaryblue80 Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 Is it reasonable to suggest that some of the initial cost of buying the club was to pay off debts? The club was saddled with them after Moore? And the £5 million cost of the Failsworth project was recouped by the deal with the council? But we went into Admin and had a CVA agreed for, I think (someone can correct me if I'm wrong), 10p in the £1. I know Moore pushed the boat out but £10m in debt? After fire sale of players also. I can't see it. And if that was the case that they spent £1m on the monies owed...fine...say that. In the Radio Manchester interview I heard it on, Simon stated the club was bought for £1million. Which isn't true and like the monies spent figure (without accounting for incomes) of £14m a couple of years ago, is simply misleading. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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