nzlatic Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 Twisting is a very strange term to use. Are we to ignore the construction costs in any discussion? I think that you are getting a bit desperate now BTW price sought and value are 2 completely different things. The value was never going to be in excess of £10M and still isnt. But SC cannot see that Desperate? What are you imagining I'm trying to achieve here?! I'll bite a little. I'm not ignoring construction costs. I'm aware that they changed spec, cost increased, funding became an issue, cash flow became an issue etc. In fact, I don't think you'll find anyone saying otherwise despite you always arguing the opposite. My question was that now the OEC is open as a business, are you suggesting that current revenue isn't meeting debt repayments and running costs? Therefore it will never be finished and the overall debt position will only increase? Regarding the value, what is it then? What is the value of the land, the buildings, the "name" of the football club and the OEC as a business? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaddySmoker Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 I'll bite a little. I'm not ignoring construction costs. I'm aware that they changed spec, cost increased, funding became an issue, cash flow became an issue etc. In fact, I don't think you'll find anyone saying otherwise despite you always arguing the opposite. My question was that now the OEC is open as a business, are you suggesting that current revenue isn't meeting debt repayments and running costs? Therefore it will never be finished and the overall debt position will only increase? You are now being pedantic. You did say that all the cash flow problems occured before the stand was open and I pointed out they occured since construction commenced. You now agree with that and accuse me of simply arguing the opposite. I corrected your statement which you now agree with. I have never said that the overall debt position will increase day by day, week by week. Good grief I hope not! What I have said is that the overall debt position will have increased compared with how the debt was before the stand was started. Take a look at the published Accounts and that is apparent to anybody even without any business experience. Now obviously if one constructs a building from scratch debt will increase, it has to. But by how much compared with the available funds. No final figures have been made available but the last that I recall the stand had gone up in costs by £2M. Where did that money come from? Presumably short term loans from Blitz and Gazal (and a bit from the scousers.) The stand is not even finished and it is therefore significantly short in its income, since the largest 'bar' is not available for use yet. To repeat points made previously when that top 'bar' is finished I will be a lot happier for various reasons previously stated. Also when the third party scouse loan is repaid that would give me more confidence in the business plan. But even after those 2 are satisfied we have the short term loan covering the extra £2M. Will the amigos let it stand? Would you? I asked before what indications are there to illustrate that the stand is in profit, but no-one seems to be able to show any. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaddySmoker Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 Regarding the value, what is it then? What is the value of the land, the buildings, the "name" of the football club and the OEC as a business? £1 (Excluding OEC Ltd.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deyres42 Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 £1 (Excluding OEC Ltd.) Still not answered the question... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcfluff1985 Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 Wonder if ChaddySmoker knows that not changing his tampon for this long can cause toxic shock syndrome? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaddySmoker Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 Wonder if ChaddySmoker knows that not changing his tampon for this long can cause toxic shock syndrome? Good morning Parrot McDuff. Friday off? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaddySmoker Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 Still not answered the question... Which bit has confused you the £1 bit or the excluding OEC Ltd bit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deyres42 Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 Which bit has confused you the £1 bit or the excluding OEC Ltd bit? Let's cut the nonsense about OEC for there is no sale without it. If you don't know the answer that's fine, it's ok to not know everything... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaddySmoker Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 Let's cut the nonsense about OEC for there is no sale without it. If you don't know the answer that's fine, it's ok to not know everything... OEC Ltd is a totally seperate business entity and could actually survive without OAFC but would have to satisfy the terms of it's lease, If the terms of that lease are fully repairing and includes annual rent of £1M+ that significantly increases the value of OAFC 2004 Ltd. I somehow doubt that it does but without that rental figure it becomes very difficult to put a value on OAFC 2004 Ltd. So I am not speculating on that value but am certain that it is a lot lower than the price being asked to cover £9M debts at 30/06/15 plus the cost of the stadium to Brassbank Ltd and significantly higher by now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jorvik_latic Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 You are now being pedantic. You did say that all the cash flow problems occured before the stand was open and I pointed out they occured since construction commenced. You now agree with that and accuse me of simply arguing the opposite. I corrected your statement which you now agree with. I have never said that the overall debt position will increase day by day, week by week. Good grief I hope not! What I have said is that the overall debt position will have increased compared with how the debt was before the stand was started. Take a look at the published Accounts and that is apparent to anybody even without any business experience. Now obviously if one constructs a building from scratch debt will increase, it has to. But by how much compared with the available funds. No final figures have been made available but the last that I recall the stand had gone up in costs by £2M. Where did that money come from? Presumably short term loans from Blitz and Gazal (and a bit from the scousers.) The stand is not even finished and it is therefore significantly short in its income, since the largest 'bar' is not available for use yet. To repeat points made previously when that top 'bar' is finished I will be a lot happier for various reasons previously stated. Also when the third party scouse loan is repaid that would give me more confidence in the business plan. But even after those 2 are satisfied we have the short term loan covering the extra £2M. Will the amigos let it stand? Would you? I asked before what indications are there to illustrate that the stand is in profit, but no-one seems to be able to show any. What's with all the cock waving? What do you hope to gain from being miserable all the time and bringing everyone down? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcfluff1985 Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 OEC Ltd is a totally seperate business entity and could actually survive without OAFC but would have to satisfy the terms of it's lease, If the terms of that lease are fully repairing and includes annual rent of £1M+ that significantly increases the value of OAFC 2004 Ltd. I somehow doubt that it does but without that rental figure it becomes very difficult to put a value on OAFC 2004 Ltd. So I am not speculating on that value but am certain that it is a lot lower than the price being asked to cover £9M debts at 30/06/15 plus the cost of the stadium to Brassbank Ltd and significantly higher by now! How do you know what price is being asked? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deyres42 Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 How do you know what price is being asked? It now appears that he doesn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaddySmoker Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 It now appears that he wont tell. FTFY. What's with all the cock waving? What do you hope to gain from being miserable all the time and bringing everyone down? Is it miserable to deal with the facts. It's not my flawed business plan that hangs around our neck. If we win tomorrow I will be as happy as anybody but I cannot see how we are currently set up to succeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jorvik_latic Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 FTFY. Is it miserable to deal with the facts. It's not my flawed business plan that hangs around our neck. If we win tomorrow I will be as happy as anybody but I cannot see how we are currently set up to succeed. You occasionally deal in facts. What's your answer to what you hope to gain from the doom mongering? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deyres42 Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 England U20 game coming to BP. Bloody white elephant... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boundaryblue80 Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 If say a an England U21 match was to be played at the ground, would the hire fee go to the benefit of the player budget? Crikey BP1960...did you have insider knowledge of an England youth side coming to BP or was that spooky coincidence? Either way...would love to know the answer. It's not Latics related so I can't imagine OAFC would see a penny from it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boundaryblue80 Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 FTFY. Is it miserable to deal with the facts. It's not my flawed business plan that hangs around our neck. If we win tomorrow I will be as happy as anybody but I cannot see how we are currently set up to succeed. If going through the summer without any players or a manager up to the very latest second was a plan to succeed then most clubs at our level would be doing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewBlue Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 Either way...would love to know the answer. It's not Latics related so I can't imagine OAFC would see a penny from it. I'd be interested to hear the club asked this question by the Trust. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deyres42 Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 Crikey BP1960...did you have insider knowledge of an England youth side coming to BP or was that spooky coincidence? Either way...would love to know the answer. It's not Latics related so I can't imagine OAFC would see a penny from it. The prestige worth more than any money surely, they wouldn't have got such a fixture a year ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twisbrogan Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 Outside of covering any costs, the money will go to the FA & Rochdale will also host a game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boundaryblue80 Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 The prestige worth more than any money surely, they wouldn't have got such a fixture a year ago. And it will still be worth the same a year ago (not being staged at BP) to OAFC as it will be now. Nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deyres42 Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 And it will still be worth the same a year ago (not being staged at BP) to OAFC as it will be now. Nothing. So what? England playing a game at our ground and the first thought in your mind (and no doubt others as well) is how much money is there to be made from it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewBlue Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 The prestige worth more than any money surely, they wouldn't have got such a fixture a year ago. "Hi, is this the Kidderminster Chairman?" "Yes" "We've been scouting your midfielder Ousmane Fane for a while now. Given that he's in the last year of his contract, we'd like to put in a bid of one prestige point" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jorvik_latic Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 Crikey BP1960...did you have insider knowledge of an England youth side coming to BP or was that spooky coincidence? Either way...would love to know the answer. It's not Latics related so I can't imagine OAFC would see a penny from it. It's turnover for the club. Don't get hung up on the 'Latics related' stuff - that's the OEC which is a tenant of the club who also pay rent. A portion of these rents go to the playing budget. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlossopLatic Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 (edited) So what? England playing a game at our ground and the first thought in your mind (and no doubt others as well) is how much money is there to be made from it.Even if the club did say something people will just draw their own conclusions. Perhaps it's just a sign of the times in a world where Donald Trump might become a world leader people like to just make things up to suit their agendas. Edited September 16, 2016 by GlossopLatic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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