The Trust - Focus on 'Al in' or 'Al out'?

[peanuts]

5 hours ago, underdog said:

Nothing wrong on having different branches or more focus groups to work on topics...less shackles 

trust = sienfien 

 

ira =independant fans group  

 

poor analogy but you know what i am saying

[underdog]

22 minutes ago, peanuts said:

trust = sienfien 

 

ira =independant fans group  

 

poor analogy but you know what i am saying

Interesting.....however Supporters direct have their own ideas. Nothing to say we can't have all of them

 

Supporters Club
Legal form - Unincorporated.
Primary purpose - A core group of long standing fans that want to arrange social events,fundraisers and travel for the benefit of the club and supporters.
Background - Supporters clubs have traditionally been the lifeblood of clubs and have on numerous occasions bailed out and saved the club. Typically,
they don’t seek involvement in the decision-making at a strategic level although a few have evolved to become supporters trusts particularly where the club has been in crisis.
In addition, there are fanzines and online forums which make up an important part of supporter culture. Both can wield great influence and prove popular for supporters in vetting their opinions across. We’ve not included them in detail, not because they aren’t important stakeholders, but they don’t typically have a structure in the same way that supporters trusts,associations and clubs do.

 

Independent Supporters Association
Legal form - Unincorporated.
Primary purpose - To bring like-minded supporters   together.
Background - Independent Supporters  Associations particularly came to the fore in the late 1980s/90sto establish an independent supporters voice from the club.Some, but not all, became forerunners of supporters trusts  with each case depending on different issues and objectives.

 

Supporters Trust
Legal form - Incorporated as a Community
Benefit Society.
Primary purpose - To strengthen the influence of   supporters in the running of theclub they support and be actively involved in the wider community.
Background - A model inspired by the work of Brian Lomax at Northampton Townin the 1990s and a recommendation to replicate it from the 1999 Football Task Force Report. It
recognised that ‘fans organisations are being asked to play an increasing consultative role’ which led to the formation of Supporters Direct in 2000 and the subsequent formation of 200+ Supporters Trusts as CBS’ today.
Being incorporated gives extra powers such as owning assets (and shares) collectively, limited liability for members and opportunities to raise finance by offering shares. Regulatory oversight can help build credibility with partners

[Theoutsider]

20 minutes ago, underdog said:

Interesting.....however Supporters direct have their own ideas. Nothing to say we can't have all of them

 

Supporters Club
Legal form - Unincorporated.
Primary purpose - A core group of long standing fans that want to arrange social events,fundraisers and travel for the benefit of the club and supporters.
Background - Supporters clubs have traditionally been the lifeblood of clubs and have on numerous occasions bailed out and saved the club. Typically,
they don’t seek involvement in the decision-making at a strategic level although a few have evolved to become supporters trusts particularly where the club has been in crisis.
In addition, there are fanzines and online forums which make up an important part of supporter culture. Both can wield great influence and prove popular for supporters in vetting their opinions across. We’ve not included them in detail, not because they aren’t important stakeholders, but they don’t typically have a structure in the same way that supporters trusts,associations and clubs do.

 

Independent Supporters Association
Legal form - Unincorporated.
Primary purpose - To bring like-minded supporters   together.
Background - Independent Supporters  Associations particularly came to the fore in the late 1980s/90sto establish an independent supporters voice from the club.Some, but not all, became forerunners of supporters trusts  with each case depending on different issues and objectives.

 

Supporters Trust
Legal form - Incorporated as a Community
Benefit Society.
Primary purpose - To strengthen the influence of   supporters in the running of theclub they support and be actively involved in the wider community.
Background - A model inspired by the work of Brian Lomax at Northampton Townin the 1990s and a recommendation to replicate it from the 1999 Football Task Force Report. It
recognised that ‘fans organisations are being asked to play an increasing consultative role’ which led to the formation of Supporters Direct in 2000 and the subsequent formation of 200+ Supporters Trusts as CBS’ today.
Being incorporated gives extra powers such as owning assets (and shares) collectively, limited liability for members and opportunities to raise finance by offering shares. Regulatory oversight can help build credibility with partners

 

Some of your recent posts have been very interesting / insightful. 

 

The recent meetings the trust have held have obviously been very useful. 

 

Equally, reading between the lines I think you are probably pissed off, with some of the fans and the club, but you are having to keep your counsel. 

 

The word apathy has been mentioned a fair bit recently, don’t think there is any doubt that that is a massive issue. Hardly surprising given years and years of underachievement and disappointment. 

 

For me, the only way it is going to turn around is with better results and performances on the pitch, it’ll bring people back/in and address the slide which dates back years. Don’t think there is any question it’s going to be a long road, but based on other clubs, the town is big enough to sustain OAFC, but there needs to be something to get excited about/interested in. 

 

The current ownership isn’t going to bring it, the FLG (or an alternative) are surely the way forward. Again, reverting back to the podcast, but Chris Stringer talked about timescales to things changing and sure felt to me like that was based on perhaps some insider information rather than his gut feel.

 

I keep saying I should join the trust and don’t get round to it. But I will do it this week.  Just like I have (and will) go to the fans bar, as I want to support good people, trying to do good things and who care.  

 

I live in hope better times are ahead, Pete Wild said it would get worst before it gets better and I believe in him too. 

[mcfluff1985]

@underdog quick question. Hypothetical. If the chairman said tomorrow here is my 97% shares. I'm off. What would the trust do? What are the plans in place if the chairman walked?

[TheBigDog]

25 minutes ago, mcfluff1985 said:

@underdog quick question. Hypothetical. If the chairman said tomorrow here is my 97% shares. I'm off. What would the trust do? What are the plans in place if the chairman walked?

 

What if there were no hypothetical questions?

[mcfluff1985]

37 minutes ago, TheBigDog said:

 

What if there were no hypothetical questions?

Mind. Blown

[underdog]

8 hours ago, mcfluff1985 said:

@underdog quick question. Hypothetical. If the chairman said tomorrow here is my 97% shares. I'm off. What would the trust do? What are the plans in place if the chairman walked?

Like big dog said...its not hypothetical.

 

There is also one debenture that could do this as well.

 

The contingency plan we had under Corney is not fit for purpose now. We need a new one and FSA agree. Thats why we mentioned buisness links and networking...again an area highlighted we will need help in.

 

If you remember,  Al had to pay a "bond" for us with the EFL. The bond primarily is there to pay off the liabilities first. We are arranging to meet the EFL, fact finding on other stuff, lesson from Bury and bolton in our mind. So we will ask that as well...the bond.

 

Its this kind of knownledge we have because of the shareholding. Details that some fans want us to give up. I get that too but knowledge is power too, if used correctly.

 

[tGWB]

7 minutes ago, underdog said:

Its this kind of knowledge we have because of the shareholding. Details that some fans want us to give up. I get that too but knowledge is power too, if used correctly.

 

 

Just wish more supporters understood this 

When the day comes and it will, the battle will be won or lost on having built an armoury of knowledge, legal advice and support enabling the Trust to react in a timely manner, not be scrambling around at the last minute for answers

 

 

[underdog]

24 minutes ago, tGWB said:

 

Just wish more supporters understood this 

When the day comes and it will, the battle will be won or lost on having built an armoury of knowledge, legal advice and support enabling the Trust to react in a timely manner, not be scrambling around at the last minute for answers

 

 

 

It is partially our fault, maybe we need to drive the message a bit more....this is what we do, this is what the shareholding gives you as a fan....FSA have highlighted this as a weakness of ours. Our membership with them has been invaluable, one chap we met has unique knowledge of being on both sides. He was the chief person leading the supporters during Portsmouth turbulant time, then he went on to become director at Portsmouth when they came through the otherside.

 

Do what wiseowl said as well about being more visible on match days. There are now 2 fans bars, so maybe we need to get our backsides in there, although I won;t be going to the one that Birkett uses mind you..hahah. That's for his safety not mine

 

we also need to find the time to look into the potential loss of little wembly. I know the club announced over summer new training facility at chapel rd and I believe, may stop using little wembly by Xmas time. On a previous housing plan, little wembly was to be lost but at the time a section 106 was added that financial compensation should be given as per sporting England. Trust has it covered under the ACV, so we need to look at that again.

 

It's that grenade juggling again...

 

Added, having been on the Trust when Simon Brooke was in the hot seat, I have to say it was a terrible time for him. That last year, he was being excluded from the matchday boardroom and Directors meetings times were changed without him being told. There is other stuff that happened to him and the Trust were at a point of issuing a solicitors letter with regards to bullying in the workplace and oppressed minority shareholding. However, Al came on the scene and for the sake of not giving that "united" front and rocking a potential sale, he made the decision not to do it. 

[tGWB]

14 minutes ago, underdog said:

we also need to find the time to look into the potential loss of little wembly. I know the club announced over summer new training facility at chapel rd and I believe, may stop using little wembly by Xmas time. On a previous housing plan, little wembly was to be lost but at the time a section 106 was added that financial compensation should be given as per sporting England. Trust has it covered under the ACV, so we need to look at that again.

 

You may recall the FLG announced at their launch meeting that Little Wembley was going to have houses built on it 

[underdog]

8 minutes ago, tGWB said:

 

You may recall the FLG announced at their launch meeting that Little Wembley was going to have houses built on it 

Yes and to be honest, we heard it direct from the landlords that they plan to build on it.

 

However the Trust has it covered as part of the ACV and the previous section 106, stated financial compensation and or a 3g pitch and floodlighting at Catherdral rd for the club. I had to google were Catherdral rd was. It is where Chadderton FC play near North Chadd school....so its not even Chapel Rd.

 

What we don't want to do with the ACV  is "give it up" if there is a potential of compensation the club should be getting. Especially, if it is a 3g/4g pitch with floodlighting the club could lease out if they had it. or council as I think the council had some sort of attachment. We do not have an expert on stuff like this so we are reliant on the Trust team to investigate the best we can. Andy B is already in touch with Sporting England again. So if there any experts on here that could help, it would be appreciated.

 

Again, having the knowledge, this time ACV, with the landlord has paid dividends. Although the ACV 6 month notification has NOT been triggered yet, it gives us the extra time before it does...so we are not panicked with 6 months triggered. We can bottom it out before, we hope. It is on the to do list...grenade juggling hahah.

[underdog]

17 hours ago, wiseowl said:

The Trust does not represent the best chance of keeping our club - in fact, I`d say it has no influence at all in that regard.

 

 

The clubs own articles of association registered at Companies house state....

 

11.4. The Directors should not have the power to authorise the discontinuance or disposal of the principle business of the company as a profession football club without the consent of the holder of the class B ordinary shares.

 

The Trust is the holder of the class B shares. Is this what you mean about us "not represent the best chance of keeping our club?"....it might not cover all scenarios, but it is a start, would you not agree? 

 

However I do concede if we are monitoring this to our full potential. The club only holding two board meetings since the new owner took over. The EGM in May last year and our current new board only met in August this year. Only registering the Board to have full access to information of a company they are legally responsible as of end of July ( I think) at companies house....with one attempt to throw us with that as well..."you are not legally entitled to have..." being quoted at Darren at least once. Legally registering him at companies house now removes that excuse..

 

Granted, It is knowing what that legal Trust entitlement is. We had key resignations in the last 12 months that potentially, has caused gaps in that historic  knowledge. There is now no-one around from those early days, although they are only a phone call away granted.  Not all volunteers are Directors in their own right...me being one or have those skills sets.Bloody hell, I have had to read up on stuff that makes my hair more curly than Shirley Temple...haha

 

 

[al_bro]

17 hours ago, GlossopLatic said:

 

The owner also said in last weeks statement that he looked forward to working with Laurent Banide for the rest of the season.

 

Like I said I think you are in a no win situation here. You can't overthrow him but I don't think you or anyonelse can work with him or change him, hes a lost cause. 

 

There does also seem to be an attitude of "I'm unhappy and you sort it out" from some people on here. The trust doesn't have the strength to go war with him. The FLG might but we know little about them.

At the same time that he said that, he had lined up his new coach already.

[al_bro]

17 hours ago, tGWB said:

 

Youve nailed it here GlossopLatic

 

I think the Trust are doing all they can with what they currently have available as in size of membership, volunteers and funds. 

 

Disappointed we have had no updates from the FLG but tbh I struggle to see how theyre going to raise the £7m to buy the stadium and have no idea of their capabilities in paying off the associated loans in raising the £7m 

The FLG are probably now awaiting the outcome of the legal spat between the club and he OEC. owners.

[kowenicki]

1 hour ago, al_bro said:

The FLG are probably now awaiting the outcome of the legal spat between the club and he OEC. owners.

 

That’ll be a long wait. 

[Dave_Og]

10 minutes ago, kowenicki said:

 

That’ll be a long wait. 

Maybe so but they'd be mad to press ahead with that rumbling on. 

[kowenicki]

51 minutes ago, Dave_Og said:

Maybe so but they'd be mad to press ahead with that rumbling on. 

 

Absolutely.  Particularly as one of their key employees (members?) is implicated. 

[sjk2008]

21 hours ago, tGWB said:

 

So your view in short wiseowl:

 

You dont see the 3% shareholding and the access to the clubs finances as being helpful

You dont see a significantly larger Trust membership being able to gain greater leverage with our current and future owner

You dont see a Trust membership of 1000+  supporters boycotting games being a threat if the clubs circumstances deteriorate even further

But youve got your fingers crossed that the FLG will come up with the £7m to buy the stadium and manage the OEC to contribute financially to the  club who they clearly ‘dislike’ the current owner and who they cant get agreement with  to use their services within a building in our ground 

 

Whilst respecting your opinion, I reckon you’re miles off the mark 

You do realise people don’t have to be a member of the Trust to then decide to boycott games, don’t you?

 

The home numbers today were 3030 - appalling for a warm, sunny Saturday afternoon. The numbers are clearly dwindling, and people don’t have to be trust members to make that decision.

 

Believe me, Al will be feeling this. 

[sjk2008]

Double post.

[laticsmarra]

3 hours ago, sjk2008 said:

You do realise people don’t have to be a member of the Trust to then decide to boycott games, don’t you?

 

The home numbers today were 3030 - appalling for a warm, sunny Saturday afternoon. The numbers are clearly dwindling, and people don’t have to be trust members to make that decision.

 

Believe me, Al will be feeling this. 

Twice today Roy in his commentary remarked that the 1000 missing fans should get themselves down to Boundary Park. He also said he was not making that as a political statement and that all he cared about was the football club. That made me think that the missing fans are starting to hurt and are a subject of some concern behind the scenes.

[tGWB]

13 hours ago, sjk2008 said:

You do realise people don’t have to be a member of the Trust to then decide to boycott games, don’t you?

The home numbers today were 3030 - appalling for a warm, sunny Saturday afternoon. The numbers are clearly dwindling, and people don’t have to be trust members to make that decision.

Believe me, Al will be feeling this. 

 

100% agree with your statement except for  what I believe is an important omission.

 

The revenue that is being lost to the club will most certainly be being felt financially and will start to impact on the clubs cashflow

 

I’n sorry sjk2008, but for me, this is why fans supporting the Trust is even more important. 

 

This thread has mentions of a number of workstreams that I’d bet most supporters didnt have a clue that the Trust are working on to protect our supporters best interests

 

They have won over the years a legal right to have a representative to sit on the club board and with that right comes access to the clubs finances

 

if the football improves and with it better results, many of the currently boycotting fans will come back. Myself included, I just know I will

But the underlying issues will still be there 

 

The Trust is our fans safety net and should be better supported 

its £10 a year for goodness sake  

[sjk2008]

1 hour ago, tGWB said:

 

100% agree with your statement except for  what I believe is an important omission.

 

The revenue that is being lost to the club will most certainly be being felt financially and will start to impact on the clubs cashflow

 

I’n sorry sjk2008, but for me, this is why fans supporting the Trust is even more important. 

 

This thread has mentions of a number of workstreams that I’d bet most supporters didnt have a clue that the Trust are working on to protect our supporters best interests

 

They have won over the years a legal right to have a representative to sit on the club board and with that right comes access to the clubs finances

 

if the football improves and with it better results, many of the currently boycotting fans will come back. Myself included, I just know I will

But the underlying issues will still be there 

 

The Trust is our fans safety net and should be better supported 

its £10 a year for goodness sake  

Sorry, I’m trying to work out what the omission was?

 

Mine was a simple point - people are protesting in their numbers, such as staying away from BP, whether they are Trust members or not, which to me signifies that it wouldn’t make much of a difference in that regard.

[tGWB]

33 minutes ago, sjk2008 said:

Sorry, I’m trying to work out what the omission was?

Mine was a simple point - people are protesting in their numbers, such as staying away from BP, whether they are Trust members or not, which to me signifies that it wouldn’t make much of a difference in that regard.

 

Am not trying to compete with you sjk2008, am on your side 

The fans choosing to boycott should ALL join the Trust because wether theyre attending games or not the underlying problems with our owner are still there and the Trust needs to be supported to help them keep on top of everything. 

Attendances down by over 1,000 but Trust membership up to 1000+ is what should be happening 

 

#helpsaveyourclubforonly£10bysupportingtheTrust 

 

[sjk2008]

1 hour ago, tGWB said:

 

Am not trying to compete with you sjk2008, am on your side 

The fans choosing to boycott should ALL join the Trust because wether theyre attending games or not the underlying problems with our owner are still there and the Trust needs to be supported to help them keep on top of everything. 

Attendances down by over 1,000 but Trust membership up to 1000+ is what should be happening 

 

#helpsaveyourclubforonly£10bysupportingtheTrust 

 

I know you’re not trying to compete and this isn’t anything personal at all, I’m just still waiting for you to tell me what difference it would make to Al if the 500+ people who are currently protesting in the way of staying away from home games joined the Trust?!

 

We have an accountant involved with the Trust and they’ve not seen the full accounts for god sake.

[mcfluff1985]

5 minutes ago, sjk2008 said:

I know you’re not trying to compete and this isn’t anything personal at all, I’m just still waiting for you to tell me what difference it would make to Al if the 500+ people who are currently protesting in the way of staying away from home games joined the Trust?!

 

We have an accountant involved with the Trust and they’ve not seen the full accounts for god sake.

If those 500 people paid £10 each, that's another £5,000 in the war chest. If the chairman walked or the club went bust then thankfully they could pay one week of Maouche"s wage...