Controlling our club

[Andy b]

I have emailed the Trust this morning with a request that a referendum is held on the question of whether one of its central objectives should be to secure a majority shareholding in the football club (and by implication to then focus efforts on achieving this).

This would be a significant step change from saving ‘for a rainy day’ or for a contingency fund, rather would represent a more proactive effort to actually secure control of the club via appropriate means.

 

Whatever ones view on fan ownership, it has to be seen as a reasonable alternative to the trust’s current chosen path in achieving its overall mission to ensure the club has a sustainable future. The merits of this option over other potentially competing objectives need be given a proper airing. 

 

I do not believe the trust has ever appraised or determined it’s position with respect to this option and this is long overdue.

 

We are at a potentially pivotable moment in the club’s history and with a refreshed Trust board in place, now is the time to be appraising this option. The mandate to focus efforts on this (or not) should come from the fans and a vote to that end should be held on what is a strategic issue for the trust and our fan base.
 

 

[LightDN123]

This is something I would happily support, especially with The foundation, with Matt Dean and PTB 

[maximus1267]

I will support anything that can secure a better future for our club, if its lawful and realistic I would back 100%

 

[PeteG]

The idea in principle is good, the reality imo is very different. Without some large independent benefactors we will never raise enough money to either purchase the ground and the club and then have the money for the day to day running of the football club unless we are talking semi pro non league. Any large benefactor would most likely want a controlling interest although if they could work alongside a substantial shareholder held by the fans that would be the ideal scenario. The problem i see if it relies on one or two people footing the bill they are most likely going to want to make the decisions that run the club.

[Andy b]

24 minutes ago, PeteG said:

The idea in principle is good, the reality imo is very different. Without some large independent benefactors we will never raise enough money to either purchase the ground and the club and then have the money for the day to day running of the football club unless we are talking semi pro non league. Any large benefactor would most likely want a controlling interest although if they could work alongside a substantial shareholder held by the fans that would be the ideal scenario. The problem i see if it relies on one or two people footing the bill they are most likely going to want to make the decisions that run the club.

Wouldn’t necessarily disagree. The trust needs to facilitate the debate and secure an instruction from fans on this though. It’s been a thread running through all conversations about options for improving our lot for a several years now and now is the time to determine whether we want to pursue this as a means of securing our future 

[latics22]

I’m not a fan of it, we will be poorer and shitter than we are now. If it’s a stop gap to secure the club until someone better comes along like Portsmouth. I suppose that would be ok.

[GlossopLatic]

The big issue here is that club loses between £500,000 to £1million per year. 

 

If the fan ownership is to be a reality then a serious plan has to be in place to be able to close that gap. That's before we can address issues such as the ownership of the stadium or taking the club forward on any level. 

 

BPAS did a good interview with the chairman of Exeter where he said that they have expertise within the fanbase to make the fan ownership happen . This is true you could find an MD an FD are marketing guy and others with director level experience who could administrate the club on a day to day basis that could happen. He also said that saved the £250,000. That still leaves us well short of what we would need.

 

That's why I always lean on the side of no when I think about total Fan ownership. You could have a hybrid trust owned club with investors backing them. However if you are going to find people who are prepared to fund Oldham Athletic with no possibility of a financial return then the least they are going to want is to run the club their own way.

 

Thats my thoughts on it their are people maybe better qualified than me who can come up with a solution to that. But I believe that's the major stumbling block.

[Andy b]

41 minutes ago, latics22 said:

I’m not a fan of it, we will be poorer and shitter than we are now. If it’s a stop gap to secure the club until someone better comes along like Portsmouth. I suppose that would be ok.

Again, i don’t disagree. But if you secure the club as a stop gap you then control who it goes to. That’s a perfectly valid reason for advocating fan ownership. It’s rarely the ideal long term outcome but might be a very effective stepping stone to a better long term existence 

[Andy b]

43 minutes ago, GlossopLatic said:

The big issue here is that club loses between £500,000 to £1million per year. 

 

If the fan ownership is to be a reality then a serious plan has to be in place to be able to close that gap. That's before we can address issues such as the ownership of the stadium or taking the club forward on any level. 

 

BPAS did a good interview with the chairman of Exeter where he said that they have expertise within the fanbase to make the fan ownership happen . This is true you could find an MD an FD are marketing guy and others with director level experience who could administrate the club on a day to day basis that could happen. He also said that saved the £250,000. That still leaves us well short of what we would need.

 

That's why I always lean on the side of no when I think about total Fan ownership. You could have a hybrid trust owned club with investors backing them. However if you are going to find people who are prepared to fund Oldham Athletic with no possibility of a financial return then the least they are going to want is to run the club their own way.

 

Thats my thoughts on it their are people maybe better qualified than me who can come up with a solution to that. But I believe that's the major stumbling block.

Lots of constraints and challenges. It’s attractiveness is of course relative and you can only form a rounded view in the context of the alternative. 
 

It may not be the ideal. It may be the lesser of two evils

[GlossopLatic]

Just now, Andy b said:

Lots of constraints and challenges. It’s attractiveness is of course relative and you can only form a rounded view in the context of the alternative. 
 

It may not be the ideal. It may be the lesser of two evils

 

Unless that issue is addressed it is only a temporary solution and will see us go the same way as Stockport.

[Andy b]

The problem is don’t bottom up fan takeovers only usually happen when there is no other option and so fans get behind the takeover to save the club. Trying to establish it as a forward looking priority when the club isn’t seemingly going to the wall may present a challenge in securing buy in. But how do you galvanise fans to put money into a contingency fund upfront so the trust can act quickly if needed.? You won’t. 
 

Our slow and painful death, rather than dramatic collapse, is ultimately the reason why i fear we will just wither away with no come back from fans. 

[Ritchierich]

1 hour ago, GlossopLatic said:

The big issue here is that club loses between £500,000 to £1million per year. 

This is the bit that I always find fascinating.....let’s assume we consistently have a deficit of £500k....what if we had a fan owned club that was run in the right way and we all got behind the club.....add an extra 1000 to the gates every week at an average spend of £20 x say 25 home games and bingo, there’s your £500k

 

Easy right? Well maybe not but when you think about it surely it must be possible to do this and more

[Andy b]

2 minutes ago, Ritchierich said:

This is the bit that I always find fascinating.....let’s assume we consistently have a deficit of £500k....what if we had a fan owned club that was run in the right way and we all got behind the club.....add an extra 1000 to the gates every week at an average spend of £20 x say 25 home games and bingo, there’s your £500k

 

Easy right? Well maybe not but when you think about it surely it must be possible to do this and more

Yep. Here’s a thought. Let’s engage local businesses and rebuild the positive profile of the club in the town and get some decent hospitality in place. Fan park etc. All boosting income. Id happily spend more if the offer was there. 
 

Losses are undoubtedly high in part because the income of the club is nowhere near where it could be. There are numerous conference teams that I bet bring in more revenue through non-ticket based streams.

[LightDN123]

I think our fan base underestimate the skill set of fans who follow our club. I know a fair few at MD level who could offer valuable experience and knowledge. 
 

But, these people won’t have the time or inclination to bring everyone together that’s the role of the foundation. But, the foundation doesn’t do it’s role in that regard, and in all honesty, I don’t think the potential individuals know they exist. - that to me is the biggest issue. 

[LightDN123]

3 minutes ago, Andy b said:

Yep. Here’s a thought. Let’s engage local businesses and rebuild the positive profile of the club in the town and get some decent hospitality in place. Fan park etc. All boosting income. Id happily spend more if the offer was there. 
 

Losses are undoubtedly high in part because the income of the club is nowhere near where it could be. There are numerous conference teams that I bet bring in more revenue through non-ticket based streams.

We have about 8 hospitality boxes shut. The fan bar before and after the game could/should be rammed. We have some commercial space in that stand to rent out, even more if the gym leaves. The terrace shops need sorting out, bloody chips from a pint glass when I went to the first game.

 

Do the foundation have a presence on match day about this lottery ? We could hold events with former players, pay for tickets ect. There is loads we could be doing, but we need it all under one entity. 

[Littlemoor Lad]

It reminds me of a badly run restaurant, zero front of house and the fayre is garbage,

You can't make any money until the product on offer is worth turning up for

Start winning games and the club will move forward, simple really.

 

[Andy b]

3 minutes ago, Littlemoor Lad said:

It reminds me of a badly run restaurant, zero front of house and the fayre is garbage,

You can't make any money until the product on offer is worth turning up for

Start winning games and the club will move forward, simple really.

 

It goes beyond winning games. Massive influence of course but that costs. The easy win is getting the softer stuff right around the ground and extracting more money from fans and businesses in the process. 
 

[Andy b]

1 hour ago, GlossopLatic said:

The big issue here is that club loses between £500,000 to £1million per year. 

 

If the fan ownership is to be a reality then a serious plan has to be in place to be able to close that gap. That's before we can address issues such as the ownership of the stadium or taking the club forward on any level. 

 

BPAS did a good interview with the chairman of Exeter where he said that they have expertise within the fanbase to make the fan ownership happen . This is true you could find an MD an FD are marketing guy and others with director level experience who could administrate the club on a day to day basis that could happen. He also said that saved the £250,000. That still leaves us well short of what we would need.

 

That's why I always lean on the side of no when I think about total Fan ownership. You could have a hybrid trust owned club with investors backing them. However if you are going to find people who are prepared to fund Oldham Athletic with no possibility of a financial return then the least they are going to want is to run the club their own way.

 

Thats my thoughts on it their are people maybe better qualified than me who can come up with a solution to that. But I believe that's the major stumbling block.

I’d really encourage fans to not allow current circumstances to constrain their thinking.
 

There are stumbling blocks yes. And there is no clear route map and lots which is not in our control. But things change and we either position ourselves to seize the opportunity when it presents itself (and perhaps explore how we can create that opening) or we just so no cos it all looks a bit difficult.

[Littlemoor Lad]

4 minutes ago, Andy b said:

It goes beyond winning games. Massive influence of course but that costs. The easy win is getting the softer stuff right around the ground and extracting more money from fans and businesses in the process. 
 

You can throw all you want at it but unless there's a hint of progression on the pitch, it all counts for sod all.

There's no future if you keep on losing and why should there be?

[Andy b]

Just now, Littlemoor Lad said:

You can throw all you want at it but unless there's a hint of progression on the pitch, it all counts for sod all.

There's no future if you keep on losing and why should there be?

I think we are deviating from the point. That was that losses are high, in part (and only in part) as our non-ticket based revenue streams don’t work hard enough (that’s putting it mildly). Losses wouldn’t be as high if they did. 

 

success on the pitch will get fans through the door and businesses interested undeniably. 

[Theoutsider]

2 minutes ago, Andy b said:

I’d really encourage fans to not allow current circumstances to constrain their thinking.
 

There are stumbling blocks yes. And there is no clear route map and lots which is not in our control. But things change and we either position ourselves to seize the opportunity when it presents itself (and perhaps explore how we can create that opening) or we just so no cos it all looks a bit difficult.

I still really believe there is a massive opportunity for Oldham if done right. 
 

There are plenty of people I know who would go (not Oldham fans) if things were done to encourage attendance. 
 

The North stand is a massive asset and could generate income other clubs just don’t get if it was all under the right ownership. 
 

Massive buts with all of this I know, but the comments above and some of the debate in the last few days I can’t help but have some hope… if it all doesn’t crash burn to the point of no return in the meantime

 

@Andy b  are you the Andy formerly of the Trust?  Any appetite to get back involved now some of the old guard have left

[Andy b]

2 minutes ago, Theoutsider said:

I still really believe there is a massive opportunity for Oldham if done right. 
 

There are plenty of people I know who would go (not Oldham fans) if things were done to encourage attendance. 
 

The North stand is a massive asset and could generate income other clubs just don’t get if it was all under the right ownership. 
 

Massive buts with all of this I know, but the comments above and some of the debate in the last few days I can’t help but have some hope… if it all doesn’t crash burn to the point of no return in the meantime

 

@Andy b  are you the Andy formerly of the Trust?  Any appetite to get back involved now some of the old guard have left

I am. 
 

I’d like to see Matt grabbing hold of the agenda. A natural leader which is what the trust has never ever had in my experience and am so pleased he has stepped up. 
 

It has raised the question in my mind as to getting back involved but life’s busy! 

[Littlemoor Lad]

Just now, Andy b said:

I think we are deviating from the point. That was that losses are high, in part (and only in part) as our non-ticket based revenue streams don’t work hard enough (that’s putting it mildly). Losses wouldn’t be as high if they did. 

 

success on the pitch will get fans through the door and businesses interested undeniably. 

I find it rather strange that since we dropped out of league one, all we've done since is go backwards and appear totally devoid of ever getting back there.

We're far better than this and as proved by the smaller club's above us, sometimes you need heart and desire beyond money to get where you want to be.

Down the year's this has always been the case here at Oldham.

[GlossopLatic]

53 minutes ago, Ritchierich said:

This is the bit that I always find fascinating.....let’s assume we consistently have a deficit of £500k....what if we had a fan owned club that was run in the right way and we all got behind the club.....add an extra 1000 to the gates every week at an average spend of £20 x say 25 home games and bingo, there’s your £500k

 

Easy right? Well maybe not but when you think about it surely it must be possible to do this and more

 

So an extra 1000 are just going to watch Latics purely based on fan ownership and watch us stay where we are?

 

Maybe you might get an initial spike due to abit of hope no doubt but I feel eventually if we don't see progress on the pitch those extra fans will fritter away and we will be back in the same place

 

5 minutes ago, Andy b said:

I think we are deviating from the point. That was that losses are high, in part (and only in part) as our non-ticket based revenue streams don’t work hard enough (that’s putting it mildly). Losses wouldn’t be as high if they did. 

 

success on the pitch will get fans through the door and businesses interested undeniably. 

 

I get this but the club was consistently losing money for many years long before The Lemsagams rocked up.

 

14 minutes ago, Andy b said:

I’d really encourage fans to not allow current circumstances to constrain their thinking.
 

There are stumbling blocks yes. And there is no clear route map and lots which is not in our control. But things change and we either position ourselves to seize the opportunity when it presents itself (and perhaps explore how we can create that opening) or we just so no cos it all looks a bit difficult.

 

Agree with this sentiment wholeheartedly but as a pragmatist at heart if the fans took over the club we will be faced with many stark realities that we are probably unaware of right now. The one I've highlighted being the biggest.

[Andy b]

1 minute ago, GlossopLatic said:

 

So an extra 1000 are just going to watch Latics purely based on fan ownership and watch us stay where we are?

 

Maybe you might get an initial spike due to abit of hope no doubt but I feel eventually if we don't see progress on the pitch those extra fans will fritter away and we will be back in the same place

 

 

I get this but the club was consistently losing money for many years long before The Lemsagams rocked up.

 

 

Agree with this sentiment wholeheartedly but as a pragmatist at heart if the fans took over the club we will be faced with many stark realities that we are probably unaware of right now. The one I've highlighted being the biggest.

Pragmatists are vital here. Someone to offer the reality check, play devils advocate and avoid any movement getting lost up its own backside