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BigFin has covered the unattractiveness of Cheltenham.

 

Here are the comparative August Bank Holiday home attendances:

 

2002/03 5,933 Tranmere

200/04 6,745 Blackpool

2004/05 5,066 M.K. Dons

2005/06 5,347 Chesterfield

2006/07 6,080 Carlisle (Sunday)

2007/08 5,348 Bristol Rovers

2008/09 4,673 Cheltenham Town

 

Average league gate in 2007/08 5,327

 

TTA buget for between 5,500 and 6,000 = loss of £7,500 per week .

 

Need 7,500 to break even.

 

With the exception of M.K. Dons (and possibly Chesterfield), the extra numbers were probably due to newly promoted teams bringing a lot or local rivalries.

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My thoughts exactly mark, have donny replaced paul green yet

 

Not that I'm aware of.

 

We have a great team this year, great chance of promotion go on what I have seen so far and would not like to loose anyone.

 

Lets be real though, we can either loose one early season and have time to adjust the squad or we loose one at christmas with less time to replace / adjust the squad.

 

One way of another will are certain to loose someone along the line this season. We do every season, so going off this if people are saying the selling of one of our better players will see them not turning out to support the team anymore ............. then they probally haven't been to games in years in thats their theory.

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i was gutted in truth that so few turned up,i agree there giving us money and the towns not giving its support,campaigne needs to be raised ,maybe a leaflet through every door of the bourgh fiver for adult 2 quid for kids.

Even if its a free entry for a kid with every 20 quid paying adult

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Most likely they have been thinking of selling anyway, and the financial realities have been confirmed by lower attendances than last season. Regardless of who we have played, they have been piss poor, it's as simple as that. Everyone left the first game buzzing, I am also very dissappointed that we haven't seen a response, albeit that it's that time of the year.

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BigFin has covered the unattractiveness of Cheltenham.

 

Here are the comparative August Bank Holiday home attendances:

 

2002/03 5,933 Tranmere

200/04 6,745 Blackpool

2004/05 5,066 M.K. Dons

2005/06 5,347 Chesterfield

2006/07 6,080 Carlisle (Sunday)

2007/08 5,348 Bristol Rovers

2008/09 4,673 Cheltenham Town

 

Average league gate in 2007/08 5,327

 

TTA buget for between 5,500 and 6,000 = loss of £7,500 per week .

 

Need 7,500 to break even.

 

With the exception of M.K. Dons (and possibly Chesterfield), the extra numbers were probably due to newly promoted teams bringing a lot or local rivalries.

 

Thanks Diego...

 

What that says quite clearly to me, is that in all those games, we have had about 4,500 Home fans...

 

Bin-dippers and Lashers in those seasons easily Brought 2k, Chesterfield about 600-700, Brizzle brought a lot last year, and Carlise easily Brought 1500 that year....

 

Unfortunately it depends massively on who you play.. it just stuns me, if we would have played leeds at home yesterday we would ahve had 7,000 there, and TTA would be talking about great crowds and strengthening the squad...

 

It cant possibly be that short-sighted, can it?

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Unfortunately it depends massively on who you play.. it just stuns me, if we would have played leeds at home yesterday we would ahve had 7,000 there, and TTA would be talking about great crowds and strengthening the squad..

 

It cant possibly be that short-sighted, can it?

 

Much as I sympathise with the treatment of TTA by the stay-at-home people of Oldham, I have to agree with your point about the fixture.

 

Like pjkent, I hope they will give it until at least the January transfer window before they consider selling anyone if attendances don't improve.

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I've had a smilar statement from my boss with reguards to customer numbers dropping in my job, I've been round all the new estate being built in Glossop with lealets and in some cases interacting and so far things seems to be looking more rosey. I know it's a completely different kettle of fish but maybe something on a larger scale might see similar results

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Much as I sympathise with the treatment of TTA by the stay-at-home people of Oldham, I have to agree with your point about the fixture.

 

Like pjkent, I hope they will give it until at least the January transfer window before they consider selling anyone if attendances don't improve.

 

My sentiments exactly, a Taylor or Smalley aint going to decrease in value before Christmas, if we are still sending our fans home in a taxi by then, then they are justified to sell away.... and you never know, we may get an unexpected bonus like a cup run, or another Trotters... there are just so many variables, along with 1500 more on our crowds...

 

Its just too knee-jerk for me... only two weeks ago we gave Davies an improved an exteded contract, plus we were looking at strenthening on the left, now after playing a pub team on a bank holiday we are talking about doom and selling.....

 

There is a happy medium there, and for me that is having faith in the team you have assembled, and seeing how it goes until christmas, and giving the fans a chance to return from their summer holidays.... when i'm sure we could hold a fire-sale at a moments notice if needed in the transfer window......

 

You never know... we might even get a milti-million pound offer in the next week for JP, or wolfy.... or even davies :wink:

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Said it the other day we need another 1000 on the gate. A few seasons back when our backs were to the wall with a :censored:e team we were getting 6000 into BP. It's steadilly dropped off after a few seasons of under acheiving. Sure we got into the play off's the season before last but it wasn't great football and that as taken it's toll. If the side produce good winning football the £20 will not be an issue, because people want to be a part of it and be entertained. The trouble is here is that it takes time for the public to come back, it wont happen over a few games, it takes a period of good winning football with something along the way that sparks real interest, an Everton for example. Posted the other day about when the crowds actually started flocking to BP during the time Royle built his exciting team. It was the cup runs that got the crowds interested, once they were and came they saw the entertainment first hand and wanted more. We didn't get promotion (due purely to being snowed under with games in hand) but the crowds were there from the off the next season. I just hope this side can sustain this early form and that TTA can stick in there that little bit longer and get that interest going.

 

 

 

In my experience, after the club being so long in the doldrums, in a period when the game has changed in ways that make life more difficult for clubs of our stature to compete at a higher level, many people have, rightly or wrongly, come to the conclusion that we are stuck in the lower divisions for good and have drifted away 'for the time being', or 'until something starts to improve.' As people have pointed out, once fans get out of the habit of going regularly, it's a hard task to get them back, especially with today's inflated prices.

 

It isn't only us, as others have said-the crowd at City yesterday was only 36,000; when they first moved to COMS they were getting near-capacity crowds every week despite an inferior side to their current one. It seems that with a recession apparently coming, football's bubble might be about to burst. We could be about to see a situation where only those clubs who are more or less guaranteed to win something and hence attract some of the world's best players will be immune to falling crowds. What happens then, when wages have been allowed to spiral out of control on the assumption that the football boom and economic prosperity will continue indefinitely?

 

Having said that, I think that if Latics can sustain current form over the coming months interest is certain to be rekindled. If this is to be our season then I expect the average to rise above 6000 again, possibly, if we continue to appear serious about finally getting out of the division, rising to something close to the break even figure Simon Corney mentions. A lot of long-time fans have become bored and frustrated over the years, but not so much that they won't turn out for the final push. It is the prospect of promotion and not entertaining, stylish football that attracts people, but if we can have both then that's the best of all possible situations.

Edited by Corporal_Jones
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Agree with everything you say but it is a fact that attendances have gone progressively worse for the last 3 seasons and it is something that needs to be addressed! don't see how threatening to sell a player is actually going to improve the situation??

 

threatening to sell players to try to provoke a reaction from the apethetic population of oldham is not the right way to go about things....

 

the vast majority of the town that read the backpage of the chron couldnt give a hoot about it,doesnt concern or affect them....the only people it will have any bearing on at all are the people who go to games week in and week out.......there the ones who can see whats happening on the pitch and there the ones who will suffer from a player being sold.....

 

the sad facts are being in this league for so long,the recession and the fact that yes....at the end of the day £20 is a lot of money to go and spend for 90 mins entertainment.

 

the truth is that the figures are in now and we know or the club will know basically withing a couple of hundred what the crowd will be week from week....and they dont like it....

 

but instead of selling someone to pay for it why not think up some incentives to try to entice people back...because at the end of the day money talks....

 

we had a thread which was a cracker a few months ago about incentives and ideas to get folk back,but it seems to have fell on deaf ears considering the owners and others inside the club read these boards.

 

the club cant keep banging on about non attendance without throwing something into the hat to try to get them back......

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Thanks Diego...

 

What that says quite clearly to me, is that in all those games, we have had about 4,500 Home fans...

 

Bin-dippers and Lashers in those seasons easily Brought 2k, Chesterfield about 600-700, Brizzle brought a lot last year, and Carlise easily Brought 1500 that year....

 

Unfortunately it depends massively on who you play.. it just stuns me, if we would have played leeds at home yesterday we would ahve had 7,000 there, and TTA would be talking about great crowds and strengthening the squad...

 

It cant possibly be that short-sighted, can it?

 

 

Don't think so bigfin. Until their promition season, the lashers didn't bring more than 1,500 including the season where they were relegated on the last game and IIRC more often than not the figure was closer to 1200. As for the Tramps bringing 2,000, please don't make me laugh. Its a bank holiday and I've got to go to work tomorrow and I don't want my sides to be sore.

 

Chesterfield did not bring 6-700 either. I recall posting on JK latics after that game as Chesterfield only brought 200 that year.

 

The figures that Diego has produced shows that the attendance has tended to be around 5,000-5,500 with the exception of the Carlisle game which was just after Ronnie was sacked for poor season ticket sales.

 

I was really disappointed on Saturday as after our good start, I expected around 5,500 tics even on a bank holiday weekend.

 

We really need a couple of decent results in the next 2 away games and then seen what we get against MK.

 

I think it is almost unimportant to TTA at this stage as to whether we sell before the close of the window. They will only sell in this window if (a) the offer is too good to refuse or (B) Shez sanctions a sale as it will allow him to bring in 1 or more replacements to improve the squad and make us stronger.

 

However, if we continue in the top 6 until Christmas and crowds do not pick up by at least 1,000 per game, then TTA will probably reassess and a sale or 2 would be likely in the January window.

 

Cheers,

 

 

 

 

Harry

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ok as much as i like the TTA and thank them for what they do for the club lets sell our best player and be in this league for another season? they talk about achieving promotion but you need your best players to do that. Its a downward spiral simple you lose your best players perhaps taylor or hughes for example= you dont carry on winning crowds decrease further as why would people want to pay to watch dross like some games last season. It works both ways we sell to break even and not achieve promotion or we keep the squad together go up and see crowds increase next season think about it TTA

Edited by dean 1984
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threatening to sell players to try to provoke a reaction from the apethetic population of oldham is not the right way to go about things....

 

the vast majority of the town that read the backpage of the chron couldnt give a hoot about it,doesnt concern or affect them....the only people it will have any bearing on at all are the people who go to games week in and week out.......there the ones who can see whats happening on the pitch and there the ones who will suffer from a player being sold.....

 

the sad facts are being in this league for so long,the recession and the fact that yes....at the end of the day £20 is a lot of money to go and spend for 90 mins entertainment.

 

the truth is that the figures are in now and we know or the club will know basically withing a couple of hundred what the crowd will be week from week....and they dont like it....

 

but instead of selling someone to pay for it why not think up some incentives to try to entice people back...because at the end of the day money talks....

 

we had a thread which was a cracker a few months ago about incentives and ideas to get folk back,but it seems to have fell on deaf ears considering the owners and others inside the club read these boards.

 

the club cant keep banging on about non attendance without throwing something into the hat to try to get them back......

 

That is exactly right! instead of sulking about the poor attendance, try something new and if it doesn't work then fair enough sell 1 of the better players. selling a player without the club even trying to raise attendances will only alienate those that already attend and may cause to only further decimate an already poor showing.

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Another point is that the cost of getting in only needs to be £17/18. There is a saving of £2 if bought before the day of the game.

 

You don't even have to go to the ground to buy them either. Tickets can be bought over the phone using either a debit or Credit (2% extra for credit cards) card and then picked up on the day of the game.

 

It is an area where the club could publicise better. However, it really surprises me the number of pay on the day customers who pay the extra on the day and do not order at least a day before

 

In fact I'll e-mail AH & SC and suggest that they do some publicity in the Chron, Advertiser and website on this point.

 

 

Cheers,

 

 

Harry

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Don't think so bigfin. Until their promition season, the lashers didn't bring more than 1,500 including the season where they were relegated on the last game and IIRC more often than not the figure was closer to 1200. As for the Tramps bringing 2,000, please don't make me laugh. Its a bank holiday and I've got to go to work tomorrow and I don't want my sides to be sore.

 

Chesterfield did not bring 6-700 either. I recall posting on JK latics after that game as Chesterfield only brought 200 that year.

 

The figures that Diego has produced shows that the attendance has tended to be around 5,000-5,500 with the exception of the Carlisle game which was just after Ronnie was sacked for poor season ticket sales.

 

I was really disappointed on Saturday as after our good start, I expected around 5,500 tics even on a bank holiday weekend.

 

We really need a couple of decent results in the next 2 away games and then seen what we get against MK.

 

I think it is almost unimportant to TTA at this stage as to whether we sell before the close of the window. They will only sell in this window if (a) the offer is too good to refuse or (B) Shez sanctions a sale as it will allow him to bring in 1 or more replacements to improve the squad and make us stronger.

 

However, if we continue in the top 6 until Christmas and crowds do not pick up by at least 1,000 per game, then TTA will probably reassess and a sale or 2 would be likely in the January window.

 

Cheers,

Harry

 

We will agree to disagree then big guy! I remember when the Trannies used to bring more away fans than anyone else... it has been a real shock over the last two years to see how their away support has declined... but hey, the point is that not only away fans, but the lure of the club that makes a crowd. Sur elots of the stay aways would come to see us put one over ronnie, rather than play the mighty cheltenham...

 

As for the rest of the stuff... we will see, however MK Dons is yet another uninspiring game to lure the fans back... but if we happen to beat the dingles, and the Trannies (not really expecting anything at colchester) then we have to be up on the 5k mark...

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Another point is that the cost of getting in only needs to be £17/18. There is a saving of £2 if bought before the day of the game.

 

You don't even have to go to the ground to buy them either. Tickets can be bought over the phone using either a debit or Credit (2% extra for credit cards) card and then picked up on the day of the game.

 

It is an area where the club could publicise better. However, it really surprises me the number of pay on the day customers who pay the extra on the day and do not order at least a day before

 

In fact I'll e-mail AH & SC and suggest that they do some publicity in the Chron, Advertiser and website on this point.

Cheers,

Harry

 

 

its easy....they pay the £20 because its a last minute decision to go to the game...

 

the mrs has prolly said tomorrow we will go out somewhere with the kids....then saturday comes and its pishing down....they give it till dinnertime and its still pishing down then call it off.thats when hubbys ok if were not going out ill go to the footy...

 

yes it is a great idea to purchase online....but you would be amazed at how many people dont have computers at home......they dont live near the ground so wont go the day before.....

 

thats why on the fnatastic ideas thread a few months ago it was mentioned about a club presence in the town centre somewhere......where ya can buy replica kit,scarfs and everything to do with latics,programmes etc etc but also do the latics lottery there and have a ticket outlet as well......offer the discounted price of £18 there.....you are more likely or a member of your family are more likely to go to the town centre at some point during the week,so they can pick a ticket up for you.....

 

they could even organise away travel as well,so again it may get a few extra thinking of going away games......a one stop latics shop.....

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Ive just done a wee bit of searching regarding how much other clubs charge for their admission prices. If anyone wants a copy of the spreadsheet pm me with an email addy.

 

But in a nutshell,

 

- When all teams were sorted based on the cheapest adult ticket price for pay on the day, we came 17th. The cheapest here was hereford with the most expensive being Brighton.

- When teams were sorted by the most expensive ticket for pay on the day admission, we came 11th. The cheapest here was again hereford, with the most expensive being MK Dons.

 

Other points to note

 

- Some teams in designated areas reduce the adult prices if they have one or more concessions with them.

- Other teams include the price of one under 11 within the admission price, and a fixed amount (eg an extra fiver) for every additional child.

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I wish I could have been at the first 2 matches. Instead I was getting bed sores in my sick bed. What makes it worse is that I knew that these were the only games I would get to see before the middle of October. I don't think the cost is the problem but the continuous failure to do well at home. Winning 2 games on the run at home has become almost non-existent and the days when under Jimmy Frizzel you would lose once at home in a season are but a distant memory. It will be hard to get the supporters back who have seen us fail so regularly for so long at home and have now got used to other things on a Saturday. I think a free look at the extended highlights of the first 3 matches of the season might convince them but how do you get them to watch.

To those who complain about the price I would say stop going to away matches. None of that money comes to Latics. You are supporting the opposition. Use that money to pay for a mate to get in at home and prove to him/her that we are now the best team in the world (probably).

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fair enough! Threatening to sell a player is a pretty low act imo. fair enough if they had really tried hard to get new supporters through the door then I cud understand them selling but can you honestly say they have tried reducing ticket, and other such schemes! At the end of the day, I dont think it is just down to cost of ticket cause matchday prices have been stuck at £20 for 3 years now. I don't know what the answer is to be honest!

'Threatening to sell a player is a pretty low act imo' - this is not a threat - it is a hard fact of life owning a football club - we are not the first, will not be the last and are certainly not the only club who have to think this way - if we sell Taylor or Eardley in the next week it is because we don't have enough money coming in the door - the missing fans will return if the feelgood factor returns - that will come if we continue to play good football and win - but if we arer losing money then selling is the only option sadly.

 

So let's beat Burnley and draw Man U away in the third round - this will bring a large wedge in and maybe we will not even need to sell :grin:

 

Then once we beat Man Ure it's all the way to Wembley :lol:

Edited by TheBigDog
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Ive just done a wee bit of searching regarding how much other clubs charge for their admission prices. If anyone wants a copy of the spreadsheet pm me with an email addy.

 

But in a nutshell,

 

- When all teams were sorted based on the cheapest adult ticket price for pay on the day, we came 17th. The cheapest here was hereford with the most expensive being Brighton.

- When teams were sorted by the most expensive ticket for pay on the day admission, we came 11th. The cheapest here was again hereford, with the most expensive being MK Dons.

 

Other points to note

 

- Some teams in designated areas reduce the adult prices if they have one or more concessions with them.

- Other teams include the price of one under 11 within the admission price, and a fixed amount (eg an extra fiver) for every additional child.

 

I know we are talking about home attendances, but away fixtures can have an effect on home crowds as well. With both Leeds / Dale in the same week I am sure a few fans may have gone to one or both of these and not home the Cheltenham game because of the cost.

 

Both Dale and Leeds away certainly got my attendance rather than sat ( West coast line being closed over the bank holiday) ... simply both this games were more attractive, especially as it's so early in the season. Later in the season I will probally spend 8 hours traveling and plenty of dosh if we continue this form.

 

With the good following we have always got away.. Latics are always cat A (were they have different prices for games) prices and so it seems we are always paying top whack at every away.

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I have some sympathy with TTA. It was a poor crowd, but that was a seed sowed with some pith poor performances last season. I don't see the article as a threat to sell players, merely an explanation of economic reality.

 

Here are some ideas to deal with it:

 

1) Issue a discount voucher off season tickets every game (e.g. £60 off with the next home game). Keep selling season tickets through the season with big pushes when times are rosy - like now!

 

2) Copy the Stockport idea of a "Super 10" that allows you an unreserved seat for 10 games a season - this reduces the number of fans who stop coming to games after a couple of poor performances thus keeping them in the habit. Might have to have restrictions that exlcude certain games (e.g. Leeds) and doesn't offer the benefits of big match tickets that season ticket holders get. I reckon loads would pay £170 for 10 games.

 

3) Keep playing good football - this is the ultimate way to bring the crowds in.

 

4) Start using the press positively - no idea how much a back page advert with a £2 off voucher would cost on the Advertiser, or free car park space at BP on match day, but this could increase "on the day" visits.

 

5) Work with local JD Sports stores to promote matches (back of receipts, flyers with every purchase etc).

 

6) Work with the bus companies - is there potential demand that is stifled by a lack of a matchday bus route (or late bus home midweek?)

 

7) Could working with McDonalds or Pizza Hut on the retail park do anything? Voucher given out there with a couple of quid off admission - tear off slip stamped at the turnstile for "free happy meal with any extra value meal after the match" type thing?

 

8) Free kids admission for night matches.

 

9) While I don't want to sit next to them, what about a coach to bring 50 grandads from old people's homes and sit them in the main stand x several old peoples homes)?

 

10) Loyalty card - attend 15 games, get one free - stamped at the turnstile.

 

11) Get £1 off in the club shop with every match attended - no restrictions on purchase size

 

I think what I'm saying is that perhaps there's more the club could do.

 

 

WHAT CAN YOU DO? DRAG A MATE ALONG FOR THE NEXT HOME GAME, BRING A CHILD YOU DON'T USUALLY BRING, TAKE THE WIFE OR MISTRESS!! DO SOMETHING!

Edited by opinions4u
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Understandable frustration from Corney but as BigFin said, how can we go from giving new deals out and trying to bring in a left sided player to a possible player sale. All this within two weeks with a 100% record.

 

And we're top of the league.

 

Even when it's good it's difficult with Latics.

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its easy....they pay the £20 because its a last minute decision to go to the game...

 

the mrs has prolly said tomorrow we will go out somewhere with the kids....then saturday comes and its pishing down....they give it till dinnertime and its still pishing down then call it off.thats when hubbys ok if were not going out ill go to the footy...

 

yes it is a great idea to purchase online....but you would be amazed at how many people dont have computers at home......they dont live near the ground so wont go the day before.....

 

thats why on the fnatastic ideas thread a few months ago it was mentioned about a club presence in the town centre somewhere......where ya can buy replica kit,scarfs and everything to do with latics,programmes etc etc but also do the latics lottery there and have a ticket outlet as well......offer the discounted price of £18 there.....you are more likely or a member of your family are more likely to go to the town centre at some point during the week,so they can pick a ticket up for you.....

 

they could even organise away travel as well,so again it may get a few extra thinking of going away games......a one stop latics shop.....

 

I think you must have misread my post, because I did not refer to purchasing online. I said tickets could be bought over the phone.

 

Yes I take your point about people deciding at the last minute. However, take Saturdays attendance of around 4,500 home fans. 3,000 are season ticket holders which means 1,500 are pay on the day. There were only around 200 or so that bought before the day of the game meaning around 1,300 have paid on the day. Some of these are families which can mean savings of £4-£6 a time.

 

One of the points I was making is how many of these 1,300 are aware that they can save. money. If they are not aware, then they are not going to tell others who might be thinking of coming back. It really is a simple way of keeping the admission prices down and maybe, just maybe, enticing back some of the stayaways. At the same time I accept that there will always be those who make a last minute decision, I just can't accept that that is around 80% of none season ticket holders that do so.

 

 

Cheers,

 

 

Harry

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Good ideas there, especially the super 10. I think over christmas period when times are hard that would come in handy. Here are some of my own ideas

 

1) Different Ticketing Structure for Different Stands.

 

Such as something along the lines of this

 

Chaddy End (Have this as family stand untill lookers is rebuilt)/Main Stand Paddock.

 

Have a ticketing structure to attract families.

 

Admission Prices

- £20 For an Adult and an under 11. For every extra under 11 £3, for every extra under 16, £5. Kids must be accompanied by one paying adult, whom will be responsible for the behaviour of the children they are accompanying.

 

RRE

 

Ticketing Structure to attract adults/groups of friends.

 

Prices Below Advance Purchase Only

 

Price for 1 adult ticket £18

Price of 2 adult tickets when bought together, £17 each

Price of 3 adult tickets when bought together, £16 each

Price of 4 or more adult tickets when bought together, £15 each.

 

2) Student Tickets £12 when bought in advance with a valid student ID, available in all stands except main stand upper.

 

3) Bundling (as partly illustrated above). Offer discounts when buying more.

 

4) As 'opinions4u' stated, something like a super 10. Although I would personally do this over the christmas period. A three game ticket for £48 (or sixteen quid a game), that covers the Leyton Orient game, carlisle game and Hartlepool game.

 

5) Again, mentioned before but will reiterate, raise awareness of the games, especially if there is incentives for this particular game, in press (MEN/Metro as well as chron, as these are given out for free every day in manchester).

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